Yianni vs Gomez

js8793

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He had 2 tight wins in his first 2 years! 6-5 against Vertus Jones and 4-3 against Damion Hahn. 2 matches in 2 years against very top level competition. His dominance is absolutely on another level and if you do find someone that was possibly close like DT they of course took losses
maybe you're misunderstanding me? i'm not claiming anybody has matched him. just that it's not impossible that somebody could in the future. DT was close. i know i'll get roasted for this, but a healthy spencer lee would have had a chance - again not likely, but a chance. ed ruth wasn't far off either. if zain redshirts (like cael) he might have.

we've seen guys reach his peak level of dominance over 4 years. nobody has been able to sustain it for that span without dropping a match.

not a hill i want to die on. just want to say i'm not being a hater. after all, three of the guys i point to are psu guys.
 

js8793

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Step 1 is being an undefeated freshman champ. Who was the last one of those? Martinez?

(O'Toole was not undefeated in his first freshman year.)
o'toole is an interesting answer because would he have gone if it wasn't a free year?
 
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GogglesPaizano

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i know i'll get roasted for this, but a healthy spencer lee would have had a chance - again not likely, but a chance. ed ruth wasn't far off either. if zain redshirts (like cael) he might have.
I agree Spencer maybe coulda/woulda/shoulda have done it but he went to the wrong school.

Ahh just kidding. Am I?

 
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mcpat

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maybe you're misunderstanding me? i'm not claiming anybody has matched him. just that it's not impossible that somebody could in the future. DT was close. i know i'll get roasted for this, but a healthy spencer lee would have had a chance - again not likely, but a chance. ed ruth wasn't far off either. if zain redshirts (like cael) he might have.

we've seen guys reach his peak level of dominance over 4 years. nobody has been able to sustain it for that span without dropping a match.

not a hill i want to die on. just want to say i'm not being a hater. after all, three of the guys i point to are psu guys.
We may see it again but likely not 159-0. The guys good enough to go 159-0 aren’t going to schools where the coaches let them wrestle 40x a season anymore.

As for Lee… you can’t say “if healthy…” because health is a part of it in every sport. I would go so far as to say the ability to stay uninjured is a natural talent too - and often the most important one to improving in one’s sport.

One example… the distance runner able to string together a few years of 100 mile weeks is going to be worlds better than the runner that was naturally faster untrained but can’t train above 50 miles per week due to injury risk.
 

zzs006

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maybe you're misunderstanding me? i'm not claiming anybody has matched him. just that it's not impossible that somebody could in the future. DT was close. i know i'll get roasted for this, but a healthy spencer lee would have had a chance - again not likely, but a chance. ed ruth wasn't far off either. if zain redshirts (like cael) he might have.

we've seen guys reach his peak level of dominance over 4 years. nobody has been able to sustain it for that span without dropping a match.

not a hill i want to die on. just want to say i'm not being a hater. after all, three of the guys i point to are psu guys.
But that’s not what you said. Your words were that he has had a number of tight matches especially early in his career. I was just pointing out that he had 2 tight matches total in his first 2 years and no OT wins like you also stated
 

zzs006

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o'toole is an interesting answer because would he have gone if it wasn't a free year?
I love O’Toole and think he has a chance to go down as one of the greats but he has to navigate this insane 165 class this year first. He has already beaten Griffith but I could see Griffith reversing that result. I think Carr is his biggest challenge and if I had to bet I very well might put my $ on Carr. Hamiti and to a lesser extent Amine and Karchla are extremely tough matches as well. I’m excited to see O’Toole vs Hamiti tomorrow but wish it was O’Toole vs Carr. At this point with so many land mines I would put $ that Keegan doesn’t run the table the rest of his career and takes a loss or 2 and I’m a huge Keegan fan. He’s definitely my favorite non PSU wrestler and one of the most entertaining guys in the sport
 

kingslayer_85

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I know you're including DT. But you might want to go back and take a look at the brackets for Cael and see who he just absolutely demolished. And while Dake beat other champs, Cael was the vacuum at 184 - Dake moved out of weight classes. And as the kids say - Cael "clapped cheeks." He finished with over 80% bonus rate for his career and at the NCAA tournament, it was never close, never in doubt (closest win being 8-4 to Cormier). He's also the career leading scorer in NCAA tournament history.

Freshman
Eggum 6-1
World Silver

Brad Vering pinslay 1:58
Champ at 197 the next year

Hrovat pinslay 4:24

Sophomore
Rob Rohn TF 20-5
NCAA Champ 2002

Eggum 16-5

Vertus Jones
2x runnerup

Junior
Daniel Cormier 8-4
World Bronze

Senior
Trenge 12-4
2x runner up
I am fine with this view , it is subjective and I am just more impressed with Dakes wins against frank the tank, DT and I think he beat Reece Humphrey on is way to the finals against Marion. The combination of NCAA and world medals that he went through is just more impressive to me
 

apoharrow

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I love O’Toole and think he has a chance to go down as one of the greats but he has to navigate this insane 165 class this year first. He has already beaten Griffith but I could see Griffith reversing that result. I think Carr is his biggest challenge and if I had to bet I very well might put my $ on Carr. Hamiti and to a lesser extent Amine and Karchla are extremely tough matches as well. I’m excited to see O’Toole vs Hamiti tomorrow but wish it was O’Toole vs Carr. At this point with so many land mines I would put $ that Keegan doesn’t run the table the rest of his career and takes a loss or 2 and I’m a huge Keegan fan. He’s definitely my favorite non PSU wrestler and one of the most entertaining guys in the sport
He better just hope he doesnt see the blue singlet in the semis or finals.
 

js8793

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Dec 4, 2018
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But that’s not what you said. Your words were that he has had a number of tight matches especially early in his career. I was just pointing out that he had 2 tight matches total in his first 2 years and no OT wins like you also stated
i would include his 6-3, 7-4 type matches too. matches where he didn't curb stomp the guy. i still think one of those matches might have been an overtime match even though it's not specified. i could have sworn i remember hearing an announcer mention an overtime match he had earlier in the season when i was watching old cael videos years ago.

either way, we've seen guys destroy competition like he did. i think we could see someone do it again. that's all i'm saying. if you look at the guys who have come closest, it will probably be a penn state kid too.
 
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HawkFan1986

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Mar 26, 2019
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Lots of records will NEVER be broken. Cy Young won 511 games. No pitcher will ever even start that many games let alone win them. There are many other records out there like that.
Cc Sabithia and “Big fat” Bartolo Colon both retired recently and they have over 511 career starts. They are also well down the list of all time pitcher starts. But you’re point remains.

A few of my favorite records to never be broken are Wayne Gretzky’s pts record in hockey. He has more assist then the second highest pts scorer. That’s incredible. Wilt’s scoring record. Even with the advent of the three point line the closest we’ve seen was Kobe’s 81. Last but not least Cal Ripken consecutive games played streak. That’s a little over 16 straight years without missing a game.

Sports are awesome.
 

The Kid Twist

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Never?

Every single 'never will be broken' record in every sport gets bested in time. Eventually somone will go undefeated as a 4xer in college wrestling and then the debate with Cael can start. I seriously doubt he will come close to 159-0 though.

Short of longevity based records (see Tom Brady), normal career records can certainly last decades, but eventually...

What makes Cael's achievement even more compelling is his bonus rate, and Hodges. Steiber, Dake, Yanni didn't/won't come close to dominating the competition in the way Cael did. If any of them had gone undefeated there is still a wide gap in terms of dominance, which in my mind is part and parcel of what makes the GOAT.
So true. I hated the way Dake won in college. He had no offense. He was strictly a great defensive and counter wrestler which usually means low scoring boring matches. When he wrestled Magic, he never took a shot! It was all counters of Dave always being the aggressor. He should of been crushed with stall points but he got a pass on his reputation.

If were going #2 you would have to Dan Gable and then Spencer Lee!!
 

nitlion6

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So true. I hated the way Dake won in college. He had no offense. He was strictly a great defensive and counter wrestler which usually means low scoring boring matches. When he wrestled Magic, he never took a shot! It was all counters of Dave always being the aggressor. He should of been crushed with stall points but he got a pass on his reputation.

If were going #2 you would have to Dan Gable and then Spencer Lee!!
Dake's decisive Td in the NCAAs against Taylor was most definitely off of his (Dake's) single leg shot.
 

NothingMeaningful

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Dec 21, 2018
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So true. I hated the way Dake won in college. He had no offense. He was strictly a great defensive and counter wrestler which usually means low scoring boring matches. When he wrestled Magic, he never took a shot! It was all counters of Dave always being the aggressor. He should of been crushed with stall points but he got a pass on his reputation.

If were going #2 you would have to Dan Gable and then Spencer Lee!!
For a non-offensive wrestler, Dake had 83 bonus wins in his 137 victories. 44 pins, 30 majors, and 9 tech falls. That's a lot of counter-attacking and defense, huh? This myth of Dake being a defense/counter-only wrestler dies hard.

When he rode Molinari to death in the NCAA finals, he shot at :12 of the first period, and got the TD at :25. You know the rest.

When he beat St. John in the finals the next year, he took the first shot at :44, and got the TD at :49.

When he beat Taylor in the NCAA finals, he got the second TD at 2:22 off his own shot (as mentioned above).

As for his three victories over Taylor: maybe if Taylor had wrestled with a strategy to win, instead of being the aggressor, he might have won some of them. I'm just guessing here, but I would think Taylor would have taken a boring victory over an aggressive loss in that NCAA final.
 
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mcpat

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For a non-offensive wrestler, Dake had 83 bonus wins in his 137 victories. 44 pins, 30 majors, and 9 tech falls. That's a lot of counter-attacking and defense, huh? This myth of Dake being a defense/counter-only wrestler dies hard.

When he rode Molinari to death in the NCAA finals, he shot at :12 of the first period, and got the TD at :25. You know the rest.

When he beat St. John in the finals the next year, he took the first shot at :44, and got the TD at :49.

When he beat Taylor in the NCAA finals, he got the second TD at 2:22 off his own shot (as mentioned above).

As for his three victories over Taylor: maybe if Taylor had wrestled with a strategy to win, instead of being the aggressor, he might have won some of them. I'm just guessing here, but I would think Taylor would have taken a boring victory over an aggressive loss in that NCAA final.
I think his bonus stats are skewed by the league and schedule he wrestled. He’s a 4-time champ and somehow only 12th all time in individual scoring at the NCAA tournament.

Despite losing to Dake, Taylor outpointed him for his team in that 2013 Tourney 24-22.
 
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Ski

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For a non-offensive wrestler, Dake had 83 bonus wins in his 137 victories. 44 pins, 30 majors, and 9 tech falls. That's a lot of counter-attacking and defense, huh? This myth of Dake being a defense/counter-only wrestler dies hard.

When he rode Molinari to death in the NCAA finals, he shot at :12 of the first period, and got the TD at :25. You know the rest.

When he beat St. John in the finals the next year, he took the first shot at :44, and got the TD at :49.

When he beat Taylor in the NCAA finals, he got the second TD at 2:22 off his own shot (as mentioned above).

As for his three victories over Taylor: maybe if Taylor had wrestled with a strategy to win, instead of being the aggressor, he might have won some of them. I'm just guessing here, but I would think Taylor would have taken a boring victory over an aggressive loss in that NCAA final.

Thank you, Donica Thomas Varner! Happy Thanksgiving to you and the rest of your staff!
 
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GogglesPaizano

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I forget. Was it a knee(s) or mono when Picc decked Spencer?
Honestly. Over Spencer's career, I have seen the same opportunity present itself at least a half dozen times. Yanni does the same thing, but then again he is Gumby and cradling him up is a different matter. Both are quite flexible.

In any case a standard defense of Spencer's if someone enjoys the rare occasion of getting in on a single, is to go into the splits and put that back leg out of reach. However, he often nearly puts his chin on his own knee with the forward leg. Everytime I see it I am screaming cradle. It's right there for the picking. Most of the time the offensive wrestler on the leg has his head buried on the leg and doesn't see what's staring him in the face a couple of inches away.

Anyone who scouts Spencer and is aware should be able to plan for this. Granted getting in on a leg with Spencer is a pretty rare event. Good luck.
 
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