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125 this season

Or maybe Spencer's "reign" was a result of a really weak weightclass after Suriano moved up.
With the benefit of hindsight:

Lee's first title run was very good -- he beat Piccinnini, Tomasello, and Suriano in a row, pinning 2 of them and controlling the 3rd. He deserves credit for that.

His 2nd finals victim, Mueller, went 1-2 at 133 the previous year and failed to win ACCs the next year.

His 3rd finals victim, Courtney, just lost to Lilledahl.

And Ramos this year lost to HS JR Blaze.

Perhaps 125 has not been very strong since his FR year.
 
Let's just acknowledge there is no more Spencer at 125. We all knew this to start the season and it's most likely the ultimate champ will have not only 1 loss but several.

My #1 guy was and has been Noto and a loss or two doesn't change my thinking much. I think it's somewhat silly to simply see ranking services chase the kids with the best record without a very hard look at strength of wins and loses.

I wouldn't put Davis higher than 5-7 right now and will be elated to see him climb further, but he has to take out some hardened top dogs first.

Having 6 or more #1s in the last 6 weeks or so makes Flo and others look like they don't know what the hell they are talking about.
Wrestlestat: How do ya like me now?
 
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125 is so unlike anything I can remember in the past. There are still 20 or so guys who legitimately could win it. If I had to answer the question “who is the best 125?”, my answer is Figs, but of course he has to be healthy and start beating people of note in order to be ranked #1, but if there is one person in this mess who might actually separate from the pack, I’d guess it’ll be him, although he obviously hasn’t yet.

Then there are a couple guys in a tier with a better chance than the rest, which includes Noto, Ayala, and Ramos (maybe Barnett after his 0:30 pin of McCrone…). That is the tier Davis is trying to establish himself in. The next test for Davis will be Ayala to get into this upper tier. He’s passed every test so far. After this tier comes the rest of the contenders (probably 15 guys), which is where Davis is right now. If I were doing rankings (which I would not want to be doing this year, LOL), I’d have Davis currently in the 8-10 range, somewhere around Volk/Provo/Surtin/McKee.
 
How do I insert a picture? When i choose the picture icon it asks for a url address?
You need to convert any pic you have into a URL (for example I use an app called Imgur). I’m sure there are others that may be better but that’s what I use.

So I would go to Imgur, upload pic, then that would give me URL to the pic and then I can post it here. Wish it was easier
 
My opinion on 125 is that Davis (whether I believe it or not) should be top 3. Hasn’t lost and his win over Kaylor should trump a lot of these guys ahead of him.

Ayala lost to Kaylor and has another loss..Davis should be ahead of him IMO. Stanch lost to Sprately who lost to Kaylor..Davis should be ahead of him IMO.

Would I favor Davis over Ramos, Noto, Ayala? Probably not, but based on the fact that he hasn’t lost and everyone above him has taken some head scratchers, I’d reward him with top 3 rank this week.

I’ll be fine whatever they do but that’s my thoughts at this time
 
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It will be interesting if FLO sticks to the rationale - or lack of it - they put forward last week when they dropped the bottom out of the Ramos and Noto rankings after Ayala and Smith's losses - particularly Smith.

I mean if they stick with it Davis should be soaring to top 3 at a minimum with 2 wins over AAs and undefeated.

Personally, I don't think he's earned that, feeling he should be more of a 8 to 10 right now. The top guys in my eyes are Noto, Ramos, Barnett, Ayala, and Surtin. After that Davis belongs in the next group with guys like Volk and the like I think if you polled a bunch of guys that pay attention to NCAA wrestling that would be pretty close to consensus - it really isn't THAT crazy, there is a top group, it's just that they're not good enough to not take the odd loss here and there.

Impossible for FLO to come up with that based on what they've been doing so far though. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they come up with and see what kind of BS rationale they throw out there.
Agreed. Ranked 8 to 10 seems fair. Like your current top 5 and, frankly, don’t expect Davis to beat one of them on his first attempt or two. That said, I’ll take Braedon all day over the others, just for demeanor, technique, attack rate, calm, and upside. Seems unflappable and oddly never out of breath, especially in his bout with Cat Stevens, er, uh, DeAugustino.
 
Agreed. Ranked 8 to 10 seems fair. Like your current top 5 and, frankly, don’t expect Davis to beat one of them on his first attempt or two. That said, I’ll take Braedon all day over the others, just for demeanor, technique, attack rate, calm, and upside. Seems unflappable and oddly never out of breath, especially in his bout with Cat Stevens, er, uh, DeAugustino.
When is the first Coaches Poll? Will be interesting to see how they sort them out.
 
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Devil's advocate here. Maybe the fact that Spencer was there influenced where some of the other guys went. Take your chances at 133 rather than go 125. Not saying it was that case but I am not ruling it out. How many guys moved up or down to avoid Zain, Bo or Nolf? How many dropped to 141 when Zain graduated to avoid Nolf?
 
Devil's advocate here. Maybe the fact that Spencer was there influenced where some of the other guys went. Take your chances at 133 rather than go 125. Not saying it was that case but I am not ruling it out. How many guys moved up or down to avoid Zain, Bo or Nolf? How many dropped to 141 when Zain graduated to avoid Nolf?
Very few bumped up after Lee won his first in 2018:
- Cruuseliner Nick in 2019. He eventually went back down, and does anybody think his ego would let him duck Lee?
- Rivera stayed was the 1 seed in 2019 at 125 but lost to Mueller. He went up to 133 and was the 1 seed in the canceled 2020 tourney 6tf . He then went 141 in 2021 and took 4th. Probably not ducking Lee as he beat Lee a couple times.
- McGee DNP at 125 for ODU, then was a 3x AA at 133 for Arizona State. His first year at 133 was when teammate Courtney made the 125 finals.
- Lizak went 133 in his last year (2019) after McKee graduated and Russell transferred in.

That's every guy who made the podium ever at any weight, who moved up from 125 after Lee's first title.

Only Suriano and McGee were still around in 2022 -- and Suriano was back at 125 that year.
 
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They moved Kaylor from 15 to 5 after pinning 11 Spratley. He also has a dub over Ayala… but I would thought 5 losses against 10 wins would have not moved up to 5.

But that helps justify Braeden’s move to 3.

But their rankings are hard to take seriously with that much moving around.
 
They moved Kaylor from 15 to 5 after pinning 11 Spratley. He also has a dub over Ayala… but I would thought 5 losses against 10 wins would have not moved up to 5.

But that helps justify Braeden’s move to 3.

But their rankings are hard to take seriously with that much moving around.
It will be even funnier when their #1 ends up redshirting. He still only at 5 events. He didn’t wrestle this past weekend
 
Davis up to 3 on flos rankings
Don’t feel it’s justified . . yet. Would like it worked into Flo’s algorithm that to be considered for the top 5, you need to beat a top 5 from the “prior” week’s ranking (or have them fall below you with their own loss). Wouldn’t solve much, maybe, but could provide a touch more stability. Blacken the two eyes (Buck and Hawk), though, and I’m almost okay with it.
 
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If you look at it from another team's perspective, no team can be confident they won't get shut out.

Every team faces the same dilemma Michigan faced Friday night. UM fielded a team with 6 top-10 wrestlers and struggled to achieve 2 wins.

Iowa and OSU also have several top-10 kids in their lineup, yet none of them can be assured of victory because we have a stud ready to challenge at every weight.

Yes, we're spoiled.
 
If you look at it from another team's perspective, no team can be confident they won't get shut out.

Every team faces the same dilemma Michigan faced Friday night. UM fielded a team with 6 top-10 wrestlers and struggled to achieve 2 wins.

Iowa and OSU also have several top-10 kids in their lineup, yet none of them can be assured of victory because we have a stud ready to challenge at every weight.

Yes, we're spoiled.
I think the team that matches up best vs Penn State in a dual is Cornell. They would be favored at 133 (Vito vs Nagao) and 184 (Foca vs Truax) and 50-50 at 125 (Ungar vs Davis) and 157 (Shapiro vs Levi). Even 165 Ramirez is a tough out, although I think MM would handle him in the end. It wouldn’t take too many unreasonable upsets before it would get close with them. Michigan matched up much more poorly. They were good but not good enough at almost every weight. That easily could have been a shutout if Nagao finishes his moves just one more time and Starocci doesn’t sit out.
 
I think the team that matches up best vs Penn State in a dual is Cornell. They would be favored at 133 (Vito vs Nagao) and 184 (Foca vs Truax) and 50-50 at 125 (Ungar vs Davis) and 157 (Shapiro vs Levi). Even 165 Ramirez is a tough out, although I think MM would handle him in the end. It wouldn’t take too many unreasonable upsets before it would get close with them. Michigan matched up much more poorly. They were good but not good enough at almost every weight. That easily could have been a shutout if Nagao finishes his moves just one more time and Starocci doesn’t sit out.
I actually think we match up great against Cornell because in a dual against PSU, Cornell would wrestle backups at all the weights you mentioned.
 
I think the team that matches up best vs Penn State in a dual is Cornell. They would be favored at 133 (Vito vs Nagao) and 184 (Foca vs Truax) and 50-50 at 125 (Ungar vs Davis) and 157 (Shapiro vs Levi). Even 165 Ramirez is a tough out, although I think MM would handle him in the end. It wouldn’t take too many unreasonable upsets before it would get close with them. Michigan matched up much more poorly. They were good but not good enough at almost every weight. That easily could have been a shutout if Nagao finishes his moves just one more time and Starocci doesn’t sit out.

Not so sure Foca would be favored at 184. Best win is 1 pt over the same Feldkamp who lost to Gabe Arnold. Plus he lost to Ayzerov, who's 10-8 and probably a marginal NCAA qualifier.
 
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PSU's big 3 (Starocci, Brooks, Kerkvliet) will all get bonus over their Cornell counterparts. Let's say the only unwinnable match after that is 133.

That means Cornell has to win 5 of these 6 matches against us to beat us in a dual

125 - I would say Davis is the favorite based on results to date
141 - Bartlett will play with fire but he's the favorite over Cornella
149 - Same as 125, our guy is young but hasn't lost (except to a teammate)
157 - Okay, call Shapiro a favorite since Levi hasn't looked that good to date but if Shapiro's tank runs empty, Levi will pounce
165 - We really think Ramirez is some huge favorite over Mesenbrink? I don't
184 - Tossup here, it's a tied match in the 3rd likely

Bottom line, our biggest challenge in a dual this year is Iowa clearly, it's at Carver and in theory, they could win 4 of the first 5 weights (2 true freshman at Carver and Levi hasn't looked the best to date) and put the pressure on us, I like our chances to sweep the back 5 (depending on what they do with 174/184) but it can get intriguing. If we split matches, we should win on bonus.
 
I think the team that matches up best vs Penn State in a dual is Cornell. They would be favored at 133 (Vito vs Nagao) and 184 (Foca vs Truax) and 50-50 at 125 (Ungar vs Davis) and 157 (Shapiro vs Levi). Even 165 Ramirez is a tough out, although I think MM would handle him in the end. It wouldn’t take too many unreasonable upsets before it would get close with them. Michigan matched up much more poorly. They were good but not good enough at almost every weight. That easily could have been a shutout if Nagao finishes his moves just one more time and Starocci doesn’t sit out.
Cornell??? They don’t wrestle to win duals. Foca isn’t beating Truax and Ramirez would get schooled by Messenbrink.

I would love to see Haines/Shapiro though.
 
Don’t feel it’s justified . . yet. Would like it worked into Flo’s algorithm that to be considered for the top 5, you need to beat a top 5 from the “prior” week’s ranking (or have them fall below you with their own loss). Wouldn’t solve much, maybe, but could provide a touch more stability. Blacken the two eyes (Buck and Hawk), though, and I’m almost okay with it.
It’s weird seeing him #3 I agree. That being said, I can’t justify him being out of top 5 since everyone else at the weight has multiple losses and Davis does have a couple very good wins with no losses.
 
And even if Cornell lost, they'd get their lawyers involved to overturn the result.
I'm sorry, I haven't been around as long as others. I've seen the Cornell lawyer reference a hundred times but don't know the story. What is it?
 
I'm sorry, I haven't been around as long as others. I've seen the Cornell lawyer reference a hundred times but don't know the story. What is it?
Zain and YD were in Final x a few years ago for a world team spot. They had a few CRAZY scrambles that went Zains way.
Coach Grey went as far as hiring a laywer and taking it to an arbitrator.

The joke will never die.
 
Zain and YD were in Final x a few years ago for a world team spot. They had a few CRAZY scrambles that went Zains way.
Coach Grey went as far as hiring a laywer and taking it to an arbitrator.

The joke will never die.
They had to re-wrestle and that match had to take place at a neutral site I believe. They did it at Wilkes University.
 
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Zain and YD were in Final x a few years ago for a world team spot. They had a few CRAZY scrambles that went Zains way.
Coach Grey went as far as hiring a laywer and taking it to an arbitrator.

The joke will never die.
To be "fair," the lawyer & arbitration were successful, and Zain and Yianni had a redo of the 3rd match on the campus of Wyoming Seminary--just a few miles from Zain's family farm. The partisan home crowd went home satisfied. I sat a row in front of Sem's Beau Bartlett for that one.
 
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To be "fair," the lawyer & arbitration were successful, and Zain and Yianni had a redo of the 3rd match on the campus of Wyoming Seminary--just a few miles from Zain's family farm. The partisan home crowd went home satisfied. I sat a row in front of Sem's Beau Bartlett for that one.
Because it was brought up, I had to rewatch the match. It's an instant classic. Lots of crazy scrambles.
 
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