157 / 165
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Is there any reason psu doesn't have manville wrestle 165 this year and just redshirt facundo? Manville has to be better than Joe lee right?
I thought I read that Schroeder changed his mind and will be back. Hope it wasn't from Mineo
Edit: Schroeder did indeed change his mind....he will wrestle this year. June 15 FLO interview. His quote was "Do I want to move on with my life and be an adult or stay in college another year?" Slam Dunk. No where in the FLO interview did anyone ask if he will stay at 125.
Ah good to know, thanks hadn’t seen that. For some reason I thought he already had a job.
Manville is so so far out of folk wrestling it's not even funny. He did Senior Nationals at 79KG this year and the results weren't super pretty (granted he wrestled some solid wrestlers) Joe is definitely a better option at this point even with his flaws.
I thought that was sort of the advice from senior Taylor to son …
Yeah - it's been pretty established Cornell would be dangerous this year, even more so if they kept Max Dean.
Greg D
Vito
Saunders
Yianni
Yapoujian
Ramirez
Foca
Loew
Darmstadt/Cardenas
Fernandes
Very deep team with some guys who are in contention to win it.
Max Murin spiked his headgear in anger after the Lewallen match where he lost in SV. That's a team point deducted which is why they had 129. They did scored 130 though.
Wasn't that greco? Didn't he during his last season have decent wins over dudes like skidgel? You have to at least consider him a viable alternative to a dude who gave maryland 1 of their 2 points at big tens. And went 0-2 at NCAAs
It was freestyle. He beat Skidgel twice in 2019 yeah. He is an alternative but I still think Joe is a better option if he can get his head screwed on. He was pretty injured last year I believe also.
Was not Joe Lee supposedly hurt last year? He had looked much better prior to last year? Or maybe he was suffering from the effects of an illness that we are not aware of? He just did not seem himself last year. I think he will be much better this year. Don't write Joe off just yet!
From a fan perspective you are right, you don’t right off any options. However from a room perspective, it would be fairly easy to write someone off if they are getting beaten. Hopefully UPenn does their little tournament at the beginning of the year. Usually a good place to see some psu vs PSU matches since we don’t do live wrestle offs
Excellent. So if this version comes back then psu doesn't lose so many points to Iowa. Still need something though at 149 and 157.
Cadet World Champ Matt Ramos is in the Portal as of June 15. I HAVE THE BEST SOURCES!! Full disclosure.....I saw it on the Transfer Portal#integrity
Can he go 157/165?
Cadet World Champ Matt Ramos is in the Portal as of June 15. I HAVE THE BEST SOURCES!! Full disclosure.....I saw it on the Transfer Portal
Questioning the proper thread post aside, as well as guarding for the potential abuse for my next question, do you think he is a guaranteed upgrade over Steen? A cadet World is what it is but who has he beat in folk lately? Honest question I can't find the answer.
I could not find any wrestling data either. Injured 2019-2020. Redshirt last year...can't find any match scores. Never said or even implied that he would be better than Steen. Just posted that he entered the portal. Arguably the highest profile 125 to enter the portal to this point. As far as posting in the proper thread......I was responding to a poster on THIS thread talking about needing a 125 lber. Didn't seem logical to post elsewhere.
He can give it a go at 157 or 165.......but he will be weighing in at about 125
Perhaps this should be better asked in the "Ragdolling" thread 
Where did I say he should not take the pin if it is there?? Jeez, You totally missed the point. On Purpose, I think.
Edit: I Guess all those attempted throws Joe went for were him just following the "Pin Being there"? Just Ask Mark Hall how The Pin Being There did not work so well against Kemmerer. Throws are a Dangerous Proposition against a good and Fresh Wrestler in the First Period. High Risk, High reward. That is why Most High Energy Wrestlers Wear the opponent down before looking for the "Pin that is there now"
If you are wrestling a lesser opponent, that may come earlier than the last 30 seconds obviously. But I'm guessing you already knew that
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Where did I say he should not take the pin if it is there?? Jeez, You totally missed the point. On Purpose, I think.
Edit: I Guess all those attempted throws Joe went for were him just following the "Pin Being there"? Just Ask Mark Hall how The Pin Being There did not work so well against Kemmerer. Throws are a Dangerous Proposition against a good and Fresh Wrestler in the First Period. High Risk, High reward. That is why Most High Energy Wrestlers Wear the opponent down before looking for the "Pin that is there now"
If you are wrestling a lesser opponent, that may come earlier than the last 30 seconds obviously. But I'm guessing you already knew that
Your shift button is having a seizure.
Is there any video of this? I’ve read about it on here, just haven’t seen it.
"He just did not seem himself last year."
But, do we know who the real Joe Lee is? I think that is why a lot of fans have so much angst about 165, and I think a big reason Cael was in the market for a transfer at that weight.
Like many posters on this board, I had high expectations for Joe, but he wrestled some absolute head-scratchers last year. Right now I have no idea who the real Joe Lee is or what to expect from him.
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To be completely fair, eight 165s have transferred, plus Griffith who is staying put.
Cael went after two of them: the defending national champ, and a returning 3rd placer who scores lots of bonus.
So even if Lee is a potential 6th placer this year, they would be a 10+ point lineup upgrade -- rather than merely someone to face Lee in wrestle-offs.
As someone who has been watching Joe Lee for a long time, this is who he's always been. The highs are high and the lows are low. In high school, he went from teching Shane Griffith in the fargo finals to taking an instate loss to a non-d1 guy. He's destroyed David Carr and been destroyed by David Carr. He's always been boom or bust.
I'd prefer to have a guy who swings for the fences over a guy who looks for one perfect shot over 7 minutes because I think it's easier to sand the rough edges off the risk-taker than to convince the conservative guy to open up. Joe Lee wrestled last year like a guy firmly convinced he was going to hit a home run every time up, no matter who was pitching and despite racking up a lot of Ks, to stick with the baseball analogy. A guy like that is going to catch a win or two over a ranked guy if that opponent isn't awake, but they're going to go down a lot too. No idea whether Lee can adjust so there's more feast and less famine but that's the challenge.
Baseball: home runs, strikeouts, pitchers.
Woodworking: sandpaper, rough edges.
Sleeping: awake.
Old-school farm life: feast, famine.
Them dogs is four metaphors in a blanket. A good appetizer. Shirley, a young gun can stand on your shoulders and brew a new record!
#5I'm not one who thinks Iowa is a heavy favorite to win the team race in 2022 - will they be good - yes, they're bringing back a squad of veterans. However, I think Penn State has a solid team which can win it all. Here is what I think:
125 - Howard is going to be excellent; he'll be a NC one day, but not in 2022. His injury will sideline him and hopefully he fully recovers from his surgery. Steen will be solid; but he's not Howard. At nationals I think a healthy Steen can score as many points as a less than healthy Howard did in 2021, so I don't think we're going to see much of a point drop off here, if any.
133 - RBY will score a point of two more in 2022 given some extra bonus point matches.
141/149 - Doesn't matter who goes in these two weights. Nick Lee will definitely go and than Bartlett/SVN will fill the other weight. We can discuss which wrestler goes where, but since we had no one at 149 in 2021, our point combination in 2022 of 141/149 will be greater than what 141/149 was in 2021 and it could be significant.
157 - Really wanted to see Brady AA last year and we'll miss him in our line-up. I don't think anyone really knows how good Barraclough is, but I think he has excellent potential to be very good. Would have loved to see Boone stay and compete for the start at this weight; I know he's in the transfer portal but haven't seen him land anywhere - could he return? So lots of questions at this weight, doesn't mean we can't be good, just a lots of questions.
165 - We didn't get any points at this weight last nationals, so we can't do worse; I suspect we'll score some whether it's Joe Lee or someone else.
174 - Some additional points due to bonus.
184 - Ditto 174.
197 - Dean/Beard will score more points than 2021. I'm partial to Beard, I like the home grown wrestler, but if Dean is the better wrestler so be it.
HWT - Kirkvliet will score more more points than 2021.
So our chances are tied to the lower weights. Given that we'll have a contender at 149 we should be able to match or exceed our point totals for the 125-157 weights; probably just matching our point totals in 2022 with what was done in 2021 will be enough given the talent in the upper weights. The upper weights (165- HWT) are where we have the potential to do some serious damage. Each weight class has the reasonable potential to score more points in 2022 than in 2021.
Iowa will be favored (Flo probably won't have any of our NC's ranked #1), but I like our chances.
125 - Howard is going to be excellent; he'll be a NC one day, but not in 2022. His injury will sideline him and hopefully he fully recovers from his surgery. Steen will be solid; but he's not Howard. At nationals I think a healthy Steen can score as many points as a less than healthy Howard did in 2021, so I don't think we're going to see much of a point drop off here, if any.
133 - RBY will score a point of two more in 2022 given some extra bonus point matches.
141/149 - Doesn't matter who goes in these two weights. Nick Lee will definitely go and than Bartlett/SVN will fill the other weight. We can discuss which wrestler goes where, but since we had no one at 149 in 2021, our point combination in 2022 of 141/149 will be greater than what 141/149 was in 2021 and it could be significant.
157 - Really wanted to see Brady AA last year and we'll miss him in our line-up. I don't think anyone really knows how good Barraclough is, but I think he has excellent potential to be very good. Would have loved to see Boone stay and compete for the start at this weight; I know he's in the transfer portal but haven't seen him land anywhere - could he return? So lots of questions at this weight, doesn't mean we can't be good, just a lots of questions.
165 - We didn't get any points at this weight last nationals, so we can't do worse; I suspect we'll score some whether it's Joe Lee or someone else.
174 - Some additional points due to bonus.
184 - Ditto 174.
197 - Dean/Beard will score more points than 2021. I'm partial to Beard, I like the home grown wrestler, but if Dean is the better wrestler so be it.
HWT - Kirkvliet will score more more points than 2021.
So our chances are tied to the lower weights. Given that we'll have a contender at 149 we should be able to match or exceed our point totals for the 125-157 weights; probably just matching our point totals in 2022 with what was done in 2021 will be enough given the talent in the upper weights. The upper weights (165- HWT) are where we have the potential to do some serious damage. Each weight class has the reasonable potential to score more points in 2022 than in 2021.
Iowa will be favored (Flo probably won't have any of our NC's ranked #1), but I like our chances.
I think he is who he is in the sense that he's always going to be a little inconsistent. I do think he could raise his floor quite a bit to be a top 12-15 guy who can make a deep run if he's on at the right time. Another guy who comes to mind like this is Pat McKee. It's just going to depend which Joe shows up in March. I do like watching him. You usually get your money's worth.
Someone posted in here before who knows Joe. Basically attested to his character, he's a great kid, a ferocious worker and has a fantastic attitude. I feel bad because I feel the anecdotal evidence of Cael yelling at him indicates he's not coachable but he's anything but that. As it's been said, he kind of gets in a zone and just gets reckless, which obviously is a problem and maybe one he can work out of. I know Joe has "been in the room" for a while but I think he definitely is the kind of kid that also needs a long season with 25 matches to figure out everything he needs to fix for Nationals.
Not a bad comparison again! McKee was 8th at Big Tens this year (and lost to Shawver to open things up) He then placed third while scoring 19.5 at NCAA's (he also almost picked up 2 more majors). If Joe manages to score close to 20 points, the team race will be tight
If Joe Lee scores 20 the good guys win by double digits.Not a bad comparison again! McKee was 8th at Big Tens this year (and lost to Shawver to open things up) He then placed third while scoring 19.5 at NCAA's (he also almost picked up 2 more majors). If Joe manages to score close to 20 points, the team race will be tight
If he manages to stay in the lineup, I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't end up on the stand at least once. He's got too much talent to not have a good weekend at least once.Not a bad comparison again! McKee was 8th at Big Tens this year (and lost to Shawver to open things up) He then placed third while scoring 19.5 at NCAA's (he also almost picked up 2 more majors). If Joe manages to score close to 20 points, the team race will be tight
I could see him having a very similar run as Nick his freshman year where he has a solid year, loses to a complete nobody early doing something stupid, and then quietly has a monster run on the backside. Even his good weekends are likely to have big swings lol.
I can say I have seen Joe wrestle many times since his freshman year of HS and the JL we saw this year was not what I've seen in the past. I have no inside info as to why, but I am confident we'll see a different Joe Lee next season. How far can he go? Not sure. But there were definitely head scratching moments last year and I don't expect those to continue.
Who is the loss to the in-state non-DI guy you are referring to? I disagree with your premise. that we've seen what he always has been.
While there has been a slip up or two, Joe has pretty much dominated who he was supposed to and mixed in some high level wins. He didn't always win every big tournament, but he did win Fargo. The one concern I had is I felt like Joe wrestled with emotion a bit more than Nick. There were times he would lose in a tourney and then lose again quickly in the consolation round, against a guy I thought he would beat. Maybe that's what's coming up now, the battle with the mental side of things? Or perhaps there was something physical limiting him?
We shall see soon enough.
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A few things:
- Robert Howard scored 1.5 points at NCAAs in 2021. So, yeah, it's pretty safe to say that PSU won't see much of a point drop off with Steen. But that won't get it done.
- Ditto at 165. PSU can't do worse than zero points, which is what Joe Lee scored in 2021. But, again, that isn't good enough.
- You say that PSU matching its 2021 point totals at the 125-157 weights will be enough in 2022 due to strength in the upper weights. This is just not accurate. Iowa wrestled pretty much to seed (no one crazy out-performed their seed) and beat PSU by 14.5. This with getting almost nothing from Marinelli, which is unlikely to happen again. Marinelli is probably good for at least 15 points or so, which means PSU will need 30 points more than in 2021. Expecting Steen to do much at NCAAs in unrealistic, so no help there. Even with a near best case scenario at 174 thru 285 (say 12 points better than 2021, due mostly to improvement at 197 and 285, plus a few more bonus points throughout), PSU will probably need at least 18 additional points from 149 thru 165. A full year of Bartlett at 149 will help some, but without a Wick-like transfer, it's very unclear where those points will come from.
