2024 NCAA's - Match/discussion threads (merged)
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I can't even imagine thinking Johnson and Gibbons were as bad as Cormier and Burroughs. That's laughable. I could actually stand to listen to Tim and Jim, whereas Cormier is a certified yapper and a lousy commentator and Burroughs is out there threatening injuries.
I couldn't make it long before muting and putting on Byers.
Individual scoring:
1 - Brooks 27.0
T2 - Haines 26.0
T5 - Kerkvliet 23.5
T13 - Starocci 20.0
T13 - Bartlett 20.0
17 - Mesenbrink 19.5
T18 - Kasak 19.0
Outside top 20:
Truax 12.5
Nagao 3.0
Davis 2.0
1 - Brooks 27.0
T2 - Haines 26.0
T5 - Kerkvliet 23.5
T13 - Starocci 20.0
T13 - Bartlett 20.0
17 - Mesenbrink 19.5
T18 - Kasak 19.0
Outside top 20:
Truax 12.5
Nagao 3.0
Davis 2.0
When did Burroughs threaten to injure Carter?
All he said was he would attack a weak point. Which is absolutely true for any competitor, and legal.
If the roles were reversed -- Burroughs wore a bulky knee brace and Carter were healthy -- Carter would absolutely go after it, without the tiniest bit of remorse. As he should. If an opponent has a weakness and you don't try to exploit it, you're not competing.
Burroughs' mistake here was personalizing it. Had he said everyone at trials would go after Carter's knee, he'd still be right, because it's so obvious. But he said "I would" and therefore everyone here has lost their minds.
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This is the perfect description. Of course I wanted Mitch to win, but losing to Carr is ok. He's a good dude.
You might be right but I think it was pretty bad taste for him to say that on a public broadcast. Besides, if that is going to be his strategy, I don’t think it was wise to let Carter and the PSU coaches know about it.
I honestly don't remember Carter going after Griffith's bad knee as a focus of his attacks. If I'm wrong I'll stand corrected?
I’ve read your additional edits and I think you’re right. We’re reading something into Burroughs statement that he really didn’t say. However, I think we both agree that he should have exercised some discretion about the topic. There are probably a lot of Carter fans who don’t post here that are reading a malicious intent into what Burroughs said.
Yep, you and I are in complete agreement here.
We just got 4 champs, two 4x champs, broke the scoring record, broke the margin of victory record ... and we're angry about something a color commentator said or didn't say?
Shortest-lived celebration ever, and for what? If we can't enjoy this, what can we enjoy?
Some more IA factoids:
No Championship
No Champion
No Trophy
All Hawks last match loss
Only 4 AA's - 3 were portal transfers
Outscored by Iowa State for the first time since...1987.
Only in-state school with 0 champs (ISU & UNI each had 1)
Tied for Brands's second-worst NCAA finish ever
Brands's second-lowest point total ever
Lower placement than 7 of Zalesky's 9 seasons
Lower point total than 7 of Zalesky's 9 seasons
😬
Just putting this question in this thread instead of adding a new thread. How old is Tyler? He was on the U17 world team in May 2022, but not sure of the cutoffs and such.
Last night, they had O'Toole-Carr and Messenbrink - Caliendo going on and they're talking about transfers out of Minnesota. They are ****ing horrific. The only way it could get worse is if they added Sonnen to the mix. Rock Harrison and Cocaine Shane, real announcers with enthusiasm were done a disservice.
Guess we only needed 3 scoring wrestlers.
I posted this morning that it was raining and I was sitting in my recliner with my gas fireplace and kitties in my lap getting ready to watch wrestling.
Well the day is over, the good guys won and I’m back in my recliner with kitties in my lap and the gas fireplace is running. I’m enjoying my down time immensely.
The obvious thing to do now is go over to the GIA website and get some pictures of disgusted Iowa fans.
Kasak had a really good run in the consolation bracket, for sure. But, again, I don't consider Kasak up a weight class at 149, which is likely his optimal weight at the moment. If anything, he was down a weight class at 141.
Okay, bro. My post referred only to the colorful embellishment of the Tonya Harding remark, but okay.
Hey, they're both in the Midwest. Just like Pennsylvania.
Why anyone would want Burroughs as a head coach is beyond me. I don't say that just because of the CS comment. He lacked professionalism at times in the broadcast and I kept thinking about what an AD would think if their coach said some of those things. I don't remember what made me think that but it was my distinct impression.
What's funny is that I watched the finals last night on the sofa with a cat on either side of me snoring. Like Mike Evans, they were not impressed by PSU's performance last night. Not even a little bit.
Jeff could make muddy shoes sound exciting. I muted ESPN the whole time.
My best friend in HS lost the semi-finals of states because he lost track of the score. I was on the side of the mat screaming, "Your losing. He has riding time." It did no good. My friend stalled out the end of the bout and lost on RT. A couple of years later he was wrestling for Penn and did the same damn thing at the EIWA quarters. I was watching with Dave Icenhower, later HOF coach at Trenton State. And now he's an extremely highly paid surgeon. Wouldn't let him operate on me.
As a coach, one of the primary things I taught my kids was 'mat sense'. Know the score. Know where you are on the mat. How close is OOB? What's the time remaining?
The wrestler should keep that info in his head all of the time during the match. My kids won so many close bouts often because they knew the score, period.
In HS at sectional finals, the coach of the other wrestler told me as the bout ended: "We're going to beat you in OT!" I smiled at him and said, "There's no riding time. I won!" It was close, time-wise, but I was right. A few weeks later at the finals of Regions, we were tied at the end of regulation, but I thought I was short of RT, so we were going to OT. The ref must have looked at the clocks for 5 minutes before he came back and raised my hand. Must have had RT by 1 second.
btw, my high school athletic director was on the riding time clock both times. Funny coincidence.
hec
A very different style of announcing.
Cormier was gawdawful. Burroughs seems to have gotten worse over the years.
he could, and he does, but part of the reason he does is that he’s doing a radio pbp.
A very different style of announcing.
Cormier was gawdawful. Burroughs seems to have gotten worse over the years.
OK, so it's the morning after and I'm drinking coffee (getting ready to go Crappie fishing on Lake Hartwell) and I've had a little bit of time to think about what we just witnessed. Damn. I still can't shake feeling poorly for Davis, Nagao and especially Bartlett and Mesenbrink. Davis and Nagao had their chance and they didn't capitalize (although they both scored, both made the blood round and both contributed, so they can proudly share in the team title), but Bartlett and Mesenbrink both wrestled very well in this championship, especially Bartlett who wrestled extremely well against Mendez last night. He was "reaction time" away from winning the match and clearly would have won had he been able to return Mendez to the mat after getting behind. It's one of the things he struggles a bit with because of his height/length and I feel really horrible for him, especially since he's a senior (although I really think he DOES come back and really think he WILL win a title next year).
What's really, really obvious here is that PSU not only recruits great wrestlers, but these are also really, really great kids. I would have been super proud of either of my sons had they handled themselves as well and given the kinds of interviews that all of the PSU wrestlers gave in these championships. PSU has an awesome training staff and facilities, that's clear. BUT, it should also be beyond argument that PSU's coaching staff stands alone at the top of the podium. These kids are prepared better every single year than the competition. They don't always win (well, they usually do), but they're ready each and every year and the improvement that you see is patently obvious. I really thought some of the opponents last night might be trouble. Teemer's a bit of an unknown to most of us, but he's an athlete and can be problematic, Davison had an awesome championship and looked REALLY good coming in and Hidlay also looked really poised and confident. We pick on him because he wrestles the edge of the mat against Brooks, but he wrestled balls to the wall for the rest of the season and looked great against anyone not named Brooks (the semi-final against Sloan was a REALLY good match and super entertaining). Think about it, wrestling Aaron Brooks would be like wrestling a transformer. And while Aaron was arguably the top recruit in the country when he came in, he was nowhere near this polished at that point and I'm sure he'd admit that he owes a LOT of thought to his coaches and possibly to guys like David Taylor.
Just a truly incredible thing and I'm sure we all feel like we've just eaten a big Thanksgiving meal. Yeah, it's going to be fun to watch the Olympic trials and the international wrestling this year (I'm a folkstyle guy, but you take what you can get), but I'm sure all of us are ready for the 2024/2025 season NOW. Great job all around PSU, especially to the "room guys" that get almost none of the credit but who sacrifice immensely.
What's really, really obvious here is that PSU not only recruits great wrestlers, but these are also really, really great kids. I would have been super proud of either of my sons had they handled themselves as well and given the kinds of interviews that all of the PSU wrestlers gave in these championships. PSU has an awesome training staff and facilities, that's clear. BUT, it should also be beyond argument that PSU's coaching staff stands alone at the top of the podium. These kids are prepared better every single year than the competition. They don't always win (well, they usually do), but they're ready each and every year and the improvement that you see is patently obvious. I really thought some of the opponents last night might be trouble. Teemer's a bit of an unknown to most of us, but he's an athlete and can be problematic, Davison had an awesome championship and looked REALLY good coming in and Hidlay also looked really poised and confident. We pick on him because he wrestles the edge of the mat against Brooks, but he wrestled balls to the wall for the rest of the season and looked great against anyone not named Brooks (the semi-final against Sloan was a REALLY good match and super entertaining). Think about it, wrestling Aaron Brooks would be like wrestling a transformer. And while Aaron was arguably the top recruit in the country when he came in, he was nowhere near this polished at that point and I'm sure he'd admit that he owes a LOT of thought to his coaches and possibly to guys like David Taylor.
Just a truly incredible thing and I'm sure we all feel like we've just eaten a big Thanksgiving meal. Yeah, it's going to be fun to watch the Olympic trials and the international wrestling this year (I'm a folkstyle guy, but you take what you can get), but I'm sure all of us are ready for the 2024/2025 season NOW. Great job all around PSU, especially to the "room guys" that get almost none of the credit but who sacrifice immensely.
You can't make me believe that Mesenbrink doesn't have a reasonably high wrestling IQ and the commensurate "mat sense", but you've got a true freshman who's wrestling a former national champion on the biggest stage he's ever imagined. I think he was just excited and lost sense of what the reality was because of adrenaline, the crowd, the noise, the excitement, etc.. It happens. Someone else mentioned that briefly the matside score did say Mesenbrink 8 Carr 7 and that may have been the last time he looked and that he thought he actually WAS leading by 1 at the end of regulation. Whatever.
I actually feel worse for Beau Bartlett today because Beau's a senior (with a year of eligibility remaining) and because he wrestled a FABULOUS tactical match and wrestled better than Mendez (whereas I'm not sure that I'd claim the same for Mesenbrink). Doesn't matter now, the match is over and Mitchell (the Missile) lost, but we get to watch him 3 more times and I'd actually be a little bit surprised if he doesn't become a 3-time champion.
In all of my excitement last night (really an incredible tournament!), it dawned on me that we now have to wait eight months for next season😕 At least @NittanyLion84 had given us plenty of JB field videos to watch to help the time fly!
Eh, don't let a few bad apples spoil the bushel. I've been partying all night with "Is that Sugar Shane". Guy never quits.
Agreed....the seeding was lousy for this bracket! Bottom half of the bracket was really weak. Of course you have to use the criteria they have established, but isn't there any room for some common sense adjustments? If they thought they were punishing Carter, they instead punished Lewis and/or Griffith. Should have been a Carter vs Lewis/Griffith final.
JB would be fine as a HC. He will be able to recruit. The key would be the resources available to his program. Anybody who has coached has said things that you realize could have been worded better.
JB’s problem on the broadcast was that he should be the color guy with a play-by-play broadcaster to keep him focused. The broadcast lacked professionals and was really a few guys watching wrestling together and bullshitting about it over a few beers. Hence lots of dumb comments.
I've been with a hospitalized loved one the past couple days and haven't seen much of the tourney, let alone the message boards. Can anyone bring me up to speed on the GOAT? Is it still last season's 6th place finisher at 125? TIA.The hawks missed out on a team trophy, but they didn’t go home empty handed. The two most powerful blocs in wrestling, The Slush and the PAID IOWA HATERS, sponsored and presented them with the inaugural LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AWARD. Guess it’s true, you get what you earn.
How long does a Merkle have to be in to be called a TD.
I looked to me like TD Ayala (merkle) then reversal Fig.
My issue here is that they got the seeds right in the first place and then "commen sense adjusted" their way into that dreck.
It made for a legendary story -- One-Legged Carter beat 2 returning national champs. But Carter's original seed was fairer to both Lewis and Griffith, would've balanced the two halves, and would've made for a far more compelling finals vs returning champ Lewis (which would've been the final had Carter not gotten hurt).
I'd have to re-watch it but don't think Ayala ever had both the side headlock and the leg hooked simultaneously. He did have his leg between Figs' legs but missed where he had it hooked, at least beyond reaction time.
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