BIG TEN Pre-Seeds Announced

[footestomper]

I agree with Willie on this one. The worst seeding of all is Romero at #6.

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I looked at WrestleStat. Romero has close losses to Starocci (2-1) and Kemerer (3-1). All wins are expected wins vs #70, #39, #20, #42, #48. While, DW has not so close losses to Labriola (13-7) and Massa (fall), but he does own a "quality" win over Starocci, as well as the expected ones vs #46, #70, #39, #71 and #83. I can understand if they point to the win DW has over CS. Probably the deciding factor. Can't see Romero seeded higher than 5. So, how bad is the #6 seed for Romero when the highest you could possibly argue is that it should be a #5 seed?

You know DW's coach is going to point to the win over Starocci and ask who did Romero beat? Well, the answer is Romero's five wins are against competition with an 8-21 combined record. I think ya gotta give DW the 5 and KR the 6. He has a W against a quality opponent, and all Romero has are close losses. And, Starocci is the common opponent! Washington won by 1, while Romero lost by 1. The more I think about it i think it's correct with DW at 5 and KR at 6!

Perhaps Willie would like to offer up a solution backed by facts, rather than just complaining.

 

[El-Jefe]

I looked at WrestleStat. Romero has close losses to Starocci (2-1) and Kemerer (3-1). All wins are expected wins vs #70, #39, #20, #42, #48. While, DW has not so close losses to Labriola (13-7) and Massa (fall), but he does own a "quality" win over Starocci, as well as the expected ones vs #46, #70, #39, #71 and #83. I can understand if they point to the win DW has over CS. Probably the deciding factor. Can't see Romero seeded higher than 5. So, how bad is the #6 seed for Romero when the highest you could possibly argue is that it should be a #5 seed?

You know DW's coach is going to point to the win over Starocci and ask who did Romero beat? Well, the answer is Romero's five wins are against competition with an 8-21 combined record. I think ya gotta give DW the 5 and KR the 6. He has a W against a quality opponent, and all Romero has are close losses. And, Starocci is the common opponent! Washington won by 1, while Romero lost by 1. The more I think about it i think it's correct!

You realize he wasn't being serious, right?

 

[NoVa Lion]

I whipped up a quick assessment, with brackets & Sam Janicki & Tony Rotundo photos:

https://www.blackshoediaries.com/20...-seeds-released-chasing-iowa-withabuncha-utes

Feedback always invited. Enjoy.

jto, I believe this language is not true. At weights where the BIG gets 8 spots there will be a wrestle off to determine 9th place because one of the criteria for an at large spot is finishing within 1 pace of an auto qualifier. Someone correct me if that is no longer true.

Note, all 10 of this year’s weight classes have 8 or fewer automatic qualifiers. This means there will be no extra bouts beyond the normal consolation brackets that help make college wrestling the best version of this great sport.

It also means that if you lose in the Bloodround (designated as R12 on the following charts), just like at Nationals, your tourney is over, along with your hopes for a continued postseason.

 

[Callthestall]

Bartlett was at the top of my must get and I am so jazzed he is here. I think he will be one of those who raises his game to the level of his competition.

Some important data points we do have is (1) the Sasso match, and that smooth as butter takedown. Even Marky lost his first or of the gate granted not against a #2.

(2) His staying down at 141 through 1/2 the season. Cael doesn't throw around accolades for free or exagerations and he stated Bartlett thought he could win a national championship at 141 this year. That translates to me that he and Nick were at least somewhat 'close'.

Despite the jump to 149, I believe anyone will have their hands full with Beau. I have zero doubts he qualifies and had the potential to shock the tourney. Realistically he probably will rip to through wrestlebacks to a top 4 finish, learning a LOT all the way and heads into the big dance ready to make a jump.

When Beau was staying down weight I thought the coaches were giving him a shot to beat Nick in wrestle off matches which I have a feeling were very close. Then coaches would of been able to move Nick up to 149 without issue. If Lee won the head to head matches they were not going to make him go up to 149.
Oddly enough I actually think Beau at 141 and Nick at 149 was our best lineup.
Lee could/would beat Sasso.

 

[west2east]

Looking like the no fans for Big 10 was lifted and they will now allow some parents

 

[El-Jefe]

Looking like the no fans for Big 10 was lifted and they will now allow some parents

Does this mean we can get Andrew Gunning's dad a seat right behind the Iowa bench?

Oh, wait, this means Big Ten parents.

 

[RoarLions1]

#5 Brady Berge (157)
1st Round Opponent: #12 Johnny Mologousis (ILL) is 1-6 on the season. He beat the back-up to the #13 seed from Indiana. Think about that for a second. He lost to #9 Cleary by 1, but lost three other bouts by bonus, including against #8 Model, a wrestler that Berge majored. Berge should win handily.
NOTE: Rutgers doesn’t have an entry here, so they take a hit on their championship aspirations

2nd Round Opponent: Very likely #4 Kendall Coleman (PUR)
Sophomore Coleman only has one blemish on his record, a 3-2 loss to Brayton Lee to go with eight wins. His wins were not against any of the top guys however, as the best wins were against #8 Model (by 4), and Cleary (by 1). Berge beat Model by 8 and Cleary by 2, but the transitive property does not work in sports, so I’ll go toss-up with no advantage either way. In my heart, however, Berge is the man, and should win this bout. Win and it’s a trip to Nationals, lose and it will come down to making hay in wrestlebacks.

Next Bout: Third Round vs #1 Ryan Deakin (NU) OR Wrestlebacks Round two vs #11 Michael Doetsch (MD)
-- Deakin would be favored, but by then a trip to St. Louis will have been earned.
-- Doetsch was 2-3 on the season with a best win vs Mayfield, the NU back-up. He also beat the Indiana back-up. His losses include #9 Cleary (by 1), and #10 Licking (by 5), as well as to our own Luke Gardner (by 6). Might not be a bonus point win, but it should be a relatively easy win. Brady will be heading to St. Louis.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

When Beau was staying down weight I thought the coaches were giving him a shot to beat Nick in wrestle off matches which I have a feeling were very close. Then coaches would of been able to move Nick up to 149 without issue. If Lee won the head to head matches they were not going to make him go up to 149.
Oddly enough I actually think Beau at 141 and Nick at 149 was our best lineup.
Lee could/would beat Sasso.

Oddly enough? Im in that camp too, but we’re runnin em as is, so hop on.

 

[RoarLions1]

#6 Joe Lee (165)
1st Round Opponent: #11 Jonathan Spadafora (MD) is 1-7 on the season. Of his seven losses four were of the bonus variety, including getting pinned by Lee. Lee was leading 16-3 at the time of the fall, so it wasn’t close, and shouldn’t be this time either.

2nd Round Opponent: Very likely #3 Ethan Smith (tOSU)
You surely know the history here. They wrestled at the dual, Lee tweaked his knee, followed that with a takedown, then got rolled over and pinned by the veteran Smith. Great learning experience for young Lee!! It was not only Smith’s first pin of the year, IT WAS HIS FIRST EVER AS A COLLEGIAN WRESTLER after three years of action. Smith is 8-1 on the year, with a close loss to #2 Braunagel. His wins include; #4 Amine (by 1), #8 Tucker, #10 Nijenhuis, and #11 Spadafora, but nothing on his resume suggests dominance. This should be a close bout, one Lee can win. I will give the edge to Smith however. A Lee win earns him a spot at NCAA’s.

Next Bout: Third Round vs #2 Dan Braunagel (ILL) OR Wrestlebacks Round two vs #12 David Ferrante (NU)/#13 Brett Donner (RUT) Winner
-- I already noted that a win in the second round of championships earns a spot at NCAA’s, so I won’t take this route any further.
-- A drop to wrestlebacks, second round, will be a match-up vs the #12/#13 winner from the 1st round of consy action. Donner hasn’t won a bout this season, and frankly has been dominated in his three losses. Ferrante is 1-6, with his win not being notable at all. However, he did wrestle #5 Sparks and #7 Robb tough, AND only lost to Lee 7-6 during the season. It was a match that saw Lee build a lead, then hang on for the win. Donner should be an easy win for Lee, Ferrante could be close again but should be a win. With eight allocated spots at 165, a win here will get Lee to St. Louis.

 

[Cowbell Man]

[/QUOTE] NOTE: Rutgers doesn’t have an entry here, so they take a hit on their championship aspirations

[/QUOTE]

Roar with an uncharacteristic and welcomed subtle jab!

Love it.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Does this mean we can get Andrew Gunning's dad a seat right behind the Iowa bench?

Oh, wait, this means Big Ten parents.

Between you and Roar this morning....I’m having a good laugh.

By the way...I didn’t know Gunning used a seat.

 

[RoarLions1]

#3 Carter Starocci (174)
1st Round Opponent: #14 Philip Spadafora (MD)
Spadafora is 1-7 on the season. His win was in an “extra” bout, and of his seven losses, four were by bonus. This includes a 15-6 loss to Starocci. Should be an easy win, and on to round two.

2nd Round Opponent: Very likely #6 Kaleb Romero (tOSU)
Another rematch with a Buckeye. The regular season match-up was won by Starocci in the tiebreaker periods after a rideout by the Lion. It was a close bout that saw opportunities to score by both wrestlers. It ended 1-1 after regulation however. I’m surely not alone thinking this is a toss-up. Win and it’s on to St. Louis for Starocci, lose and it’s a drop to wrestlebacks.

Next bout: Third round vs #2 Labriola OR second round wrestlebacks vs #12 Emil Soehnlen (PUR)/#13 Troy Fisher (NU) Winner
-- Already mentioned that a second round win vs Romero earns a spot at natties, but I’ll take a second here if it goes this route. Starocci vs Labriola would be fun. I believe they are closely matched and one takedown either way would win this bout. I hope it happens.
--In wrestlebacks, Soehnlen and Fisher own three wins between them and one was against the other. None are notable, though I was surprised at how close most of their bouts were. Based on this information, I’d expect a Starocci win, but maybe not bonus. With 8 allocation spots, a win here, if it goes this route, earns Starocci a trip the NCAA’s.

 

[RoarLions1]

#1 Aaron Brooks (184)

1st Round Opponent: Bye
Bye takes another loss.

2nd Round Opponent: #8 Zach Braunagel (ILL)/#9 Nelson Brands (IOWA)
Braunagel vs Brands, to determine who faces Brooks, will be a close bout. The regular season match-up saw Braunagel win in SV. I hope it goes into extra time again, to tire out the wrestlers, though I do not believe for a second that Brooks needs that advantage. Braunagel was 4-4 on the season, losing to #2 Weiler, #7 Lyon, #4 Webster, and #6 Venz. His only notable win other than against Brands, was #10 Jordan. Brands was 3-2, with losses to Braunagel and #7 Lyon, while he has good wins vs #6 Venz and #10 Jordan. I see nothing that suggests a close bout, but one never knows. Odds are this should be close to a bonus point win for Brooks, so I’m going with the odds. This one win by the Lion earns him placement not worse than sixth. and a trip to St. Louis. The Big Ten gets eight allocated spots at 184.

 

[rmg78]

Roman Bravo-Young (133)

1st Round Opponent: Bye
RBY should easily win against “Bye”, who has never won a match

"BYE" has never faced tantom's son if the first round, in that matchup, given the history I would take BYE.

 

[RoarLions1]

#7 Michael Beard (197)
1st Round Opponent: #10 Billy Janzer (RUT)
Janzer is 2-2 in this shortened season. All were close bouts, with no good wins, and losses to #6 Penola and #9 Hoffman. Beard (3-1) with only the loss to #2 Amine, will be a solid favorite.

2nd Round Opponent: #2 Myles Amine (MICH)
Myles moved up to 197 mid-season, and is 3-0. All were decisions against solid wrestlers, including an 8-5 win vs Beard at the dual. I know the fact that Beard was able to get to Amine’s leg several times is a huge positive. A little extra training in those positions may earn a takedown next time, but make no mistake; Amine will be a solid favorite here, so I’m dropping Beard to wrestle-backs. I'd love to be wrong.

Rd 2 Wrestlebacks: #8 Matt Wroblewski (ILL)/#9 Gavin Hoffman (tOSU) Loser in Round 1
Wroblewski was 5-3 on the season, only losing to #6 Penola, #3 Warner, and #1 Schultz. All of the losses were by four points or less, suggesting he was in every bout. I wouldn’t call any of his wins notable, though he did beat Hoffman 4-2 HTH. Hoffman was 4-5, but only lost to guys in front of him; Woblewski, #4 Caffey, #6 Penola, #2 Amine, and Beard. Like Wobleski, all were close losses, except the fall by Beard. Either way, I expect a close win by Beard here.
197 has the fewest Big Ten allocation spots (6) of all the weight classes, so a win here and Beard is not done. He must finish better than his seed to earn a trip to NCAA’s outright.

Rd 3 Wrestlebacks: #3 Jacob Warner (IOWA)/#6 Thomas Penola Loser from the Championship Bracket
This is the bout Beard needs to finish top-6, and earn the auto-berth to NCAA’s.
Warner owns a 9-4 win vs Penola, so I’m guessing Penola will be Beard’s opponent here if it goes this route. Penola was 7-2 on the season, with losses to #4 Caffey, along with the loss to Warner. Of his wins, the best is a 3-2 victory vs Hoffman. Beard is ranked higher than Penola by most, but is behind him in the Coaches Ranking. This should be a close match, though I’m giving the Penn State frosh the edge. A longer season, and Beard would have settled into a ranking more suited his talent. Again, win here and Beard is a qualifier to the national tournament, lose and he waits for word on at-large selections.

 

[jtothemfp]

Does this mean we can get Andrew Gunning's dad a seat right behind the Iowa bench?

Oh, wait, this means Big Ten parents.

This means extended and frequent BTN shots of Mike Amine shouting at the mats.

 

[jtothemfp]

jto, I believe this language is not true. At weights where the BIG gets 8 spots there will be a wrestle off to determine 9th place because one of the criteria for an at large spot is finishing within 1 pace of an auto qualifier. Someone correct me if that is no longer true.

Note, all 10 of this year’s weight classes have 8 or fewer automatic qualifiers. This means there will be no extra bouts beyond the normal consolation brackets that help make college wrestling the best version of this great sport.

It also means that if you lose in the Bloodround (designated as R12 on the following charts), just like at Nationals, your tourney is over, along with your hopes for a continued postseason.

Interesting guess here, Nova: that the conference tournament might create additional 9th-place bouts to prepare for a use case related to the at-large qualifier process for the National tourney.

Let's keep an eye out on it.

 

[pish69]

Good stuff everyone. Thanks Roar for the breakdowns.

Looking at everything, Howard is the one guy that concerns me getting thru. He needs to win that first match vs Barnett. I think he will, but if he loses, I don't think he gets in.

Bartlett and Beard have to take care of some business as well, but I'm pretty confident in them.

The rest should be no issues unless someone gets hurt.

The nice part, is all these young freshman need to earn their way in. It's in their hands, if they handle their business, they're in. If not, no one to blame

 

[El-Jefe]

This means extended and frequent BTN shots of Mike Amine shouting at the mats.

 

[NoVaLion2]

They could always throw some headgear.

Losing a team point before your first match would have to be some kind of record -- or something. 😮

 

[breno14]

This means extended and frequent BTN shots of Mike Amine shouting at the mats.

Was watching the Michigan dual and my wife walked in as Big Amine was shown yelling. She asked "Is that [butt divot] who's been around forever? How many kids does he have? I hate that guy".

She's a good woman.

 

[RoarLions1]

#7 Greg Kerkvliet (285)

1st Round Opponent: #10 Jack Heyob (NU)
Heyob is 1-4 on the season, with a (sadly) big whoop win vs Maryland. His losses were vs #5 Lance, #4 Luffman, #6 Hillger, and #1 Steveson. The 4-point loss to Hillger was the closest. Heyob should offer little resistance to Kerkvliet on paper, so I’m going with that and an easy win for the Lion.

2nd Round Opponent: #2 Mason Parris (MICH)
Parris and Steveson have separated themselves from the pack, but I can’t help but think this will be a close bout. It’s hard to prepare for someone that wrestles with the same athleticism you do, when “those guys” are in other rooms. I believe this will be close, though my head says it’ll be a Parris win. For the record, I’m not ruling out a Kerkvliet “upset”. A win would earn Kerkvliet a trip to Nationals.

2nd Rd Wrestlebacks: I’ll go the wrestleback route and the loser in the Championship Bracket between #8 Tate Orndorff (tOSU)/#9 Christian Rebottaro (MSU)
Orndorff had a worse-than-expected season, going 4-5, including a 3-2 loss to Nevills. He did beat Rebottaro by major decision, however, so I’ll go Rebottaro here. To be sure, Kerkvliet should win against either wrestler.
Rebottaro was 1-4 on the season. A quick look at his results, and this should be an easy Kerkvliet win.
The Big Ten only gets 7 allocated spots at 285, so Kerkvliet’s task is not finished. This win only guarantees 8th Place.

3rd Rd Wrestlebacks: #6 Trent Hillger (WIS)
Hillger was 3-2 on the season, with losses to #4 Luffman, and #5 Lance. Both were very close, going into extra time. His wins were not notable. On paper, this appears to be a solid match-up, toss-up quality even. Hillger is an athletic heavy, with a size advantage over Kerkvliet. Kerkliet is even more athletic, and STRONG, so I’m looking for a close bout. Kerkvliet will have an advantage on his feet, but mat wrestling may be even. Kerkvliet should ride as long as possible when he’s on top to tire the larger Hillger. One key to this bout may be how quickly Kerkvliet gets out from bottom.
Win this bout, and 6th place and a trip to St. Louis is the worst Kerkvliet can do.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

#7 Greg Kerkvliet (285)

1st Round Opponent: #10 Jack Heyob (NU)
Heyob is 1-4 on the season, with a (sadly) big whoop win vs Maryland. His losses were vs #5 Lance, #4 Luffman, #6 Hillger, and #1 Steveson. The 4-point loss to Hillger was the closest. Heyob should offer little resistance to Kerkvliet on paper, so I’m going with that and an easy win for the Lion.

2nd Round Opponent: #2 Mason Parris (MICH)
Parris and Steveson have separated themselves from the pack, but I can’t help but think this will be a close bout. It’s hard to prepare for someone that wrestles with the same athleticism you do, when “those guys” are in other rooms. I believe this will be close, though my head says it’ll be a Parris win. For the record, I’m not ruling out a Kerkvliet “upset”. A win would earn Kerkvliet a trip to Nationals.

2nd Rd Wrestlebacks: I’ll go the wrestleback route and the loser in the Championship Bracket between #8 Tate Orndorff (tOSU)/#9 Christian Rebottaro (MSU)
Orndorff had a worse-than-expected season, going 4-5, including a 3-2 loss to Nevills. He did beat Rebottaro by major decision, however, so I’ll go Rebottaro here. To be sure, Kerkvliet should win against either wrestler.
Rebottaro was 1-4 on the season. A quick look at his results, and this should be an easy Kerkvliet win.
The Big Ten only gets 7 allocated spots at 285, so Kerkvliet’s task is not finished. This win only guarantees 8th Place.

3rd Rd Wrestlebacks: #6 Trent Hillger (WIS)
Hillger was 3-2 on the season, with losses to #4 Luffman, and #5 Lance. Both were very close, going into extra time. His wins were not notable. On paper, this appears to be a solid match-up, toss-up quality even. Hillger is an athletic heavy, with a size advantage over Kerkvliet. Kerkliet is even more athletic, and STRONG, so I’m looking for a close bout. Kerkvliet will have an advantage on his feet, but mat wrestling may be even. Kerkvliet should ride as long as possible when he’s on top to tire the larger Hillger. One key to this bout may be how quickly Kerkvliet gets out from bottom.
Win this bout, and 6th place and a trip to St. Louis is the worst Kerkvliet can do.

Whats the chances these preseeds hold? Cant imagine Bormet is very thrilled.

 

[McScoreley]

Whats the chances these preseeds hold? Cant imagine Bormet is very thrilled.

He can challenge the seed, not sure when the coaches' meeting is. I like Willie's idea the best, I think Kerkvliet at 13 is the right move. Don't punish either Cass or Parris by making them meet him before semis. Kerkvliet is on Gable's path as a result of missing the season but not until Semis.

 

[RoarLions1]

Whats the chances these preseeds hold? Cant imagine Bormet is very thrilled.

My opinion is that they will hold. Hard to make an argument with so few results. Besides, when it’s all over and done with, over 60% of Big Ten wrestlers will go to the big dance.
If you’re talking specifically about Parris v Kerkvliet, I highly doubt Bormet is concerned.

 

[pish69]

I think Kerkvliet at 13 is the right move.

If they feel it's wrong then seed him 4th or 5th. You can't seed him 13th when there are 2 guys at the weight with 0 wins and 4 other with records of 1-5 and 2-6.

 

[MikeDerukey]

Frankly, I think Kerk beats Parris on Saturday. That's how highly I think of Kerk because I think very highly of Mason Parris.

 

[js8793]

If they feel it's wrong then seed him 4th or 5th. You can't seed him 13th when there are 2 guys at the weight with 0 wins and 4 other with records of 1-5 and 2-6.

He doesn't have a win over a wrestler with a win. I think the 12 or 13 would be correct. Streck's only win is against Kappes too. Seeds aren't predictions. They're earned based on results.

 

[amattaro]

I think Kerkvliet at 13 is the right move.

Because it’s BAD NEWS for anyone he comes across.

 

[pish69]

He doesn't have a win over a wrestler with a win. I think the 12 or 13 would be correct. Streck's only win is against Kappes too. Seeds aren't predictions. They're earned based on results.

There are 2 HWTs in the field that have 0 wins. You honestly believe he should be seeded behind them? I know what seeds are and I don't believe 2 guys that have 0 wins and 4 guys that have records of 1-5 or 2-6 should be seeded ahead of Kerk at 2-0. I get the whole "let's not make it too hard on Gable, Paris and Cass argument." The only way to "fix" it is to seed him 4 or 5. If not, no coaches should be crying about their guy hitting our monster in quarters

 

[mrh1645]

Regarding Howard and making the dance, as usual, Roar get a great job explaining his path in the B10. Regarding getting an at-large bid should he not finish in the top 8, here is some info to consider. FYI, Willie posted an article on Rofkin with a breakdown of the at-large situations for all of the weights.

There are 11 wrestlers from the B10 in the top 33 Coaches Ranking. They are:
#1 Lee, #7 Cronin, #9 McKee, #10 Heinselman, #11 Ragusin, #12 Schroder, #13 DeAugustino, #14 Foley, #15 Barnett, #17 Cardiani, and #27 Howard.

If we go chalk by rankings at B10 tourney, #15 Barnett, #17 Cardiani, and #27 Howard will need an at-large. If we also go chalk by rankings in the B12, #26 Phippen will need an at-large. So, for the 7 at-large spots, the 9 ranked wrestlers who would need one (with current Coaches Ranking) are:

#15 Barnett (WIS)
#17 Cardiani (ILL)
#21 Gutierrez (UTC)
#26 Phippen (AFA)
#27 Howard (PSU)
#30 Kaylor (ORST)
#31 Ryder (HOF)
#32 Roes (BING)
#33 Camacho (PITT)

As you can see, just based on Coaches Ranking and nothing unforetold happening at B10s and B12s, Howard looks in-line for an at-large bid even if he does not beat any of the B10 guys ranked above him. Now, upsets happen, which can change things, but I would not expect to see many unranked guys grabbing allocated spots at B10 and B12.

 

[CholleyVandine]

He can challenge the seed, not sure when the coaches' meeting is. I like Willie's idea the best, I think Kerkvliet at 13 is the right move. Don't punish either Cass or Parris by making them meet him before semis. Kerkvliet is on Gable's path as a result of missing the season but not until Semis.

This I don't get. I heard Pyles say the same thing on FRL this morning.

The 13th seed has one win this season ... in overtime against one of the Maryland kids Kerk decked. He also has five losses.

The 12th seed is 0-1 against the field. His overall record is 2-4, but both of his wins and three of his losses came against backups.

The 11th seed has wrestled the same number of matches as Kerk but is 0-2 compared to Kerk's 2-0.

I think the seventh seed is fine and I could make an argument for why it's a better spot for him than it would be for the guys in the 8th, 9th and 10th spots in the pre-seeds.

But I don't even need an argument for why he should be ahead of the three guys at 11, 12, and 13. On the merits of their records this season alone, Kerk couldn't possibly be seeded lower than 10th.

 

[js8793]

There are 2 HWTs in the field that have 0 wins. You honestly believe he should be seeded behind them? I know what seeds are and I don't believe 2 guys that have 0 wins and 4 guys that have records of 1-5 or 2-6 should be seeded ahead of Kerk at 2-0. I get the whole "let's not make it too hard on Gable, Paris and Cass argument." The only way to "fix" it is to seed him 4 or 5. If not, no coaches should be crying about their guy hitting our monster in quarters

That's not the point at all. I only said that because it would be better for him. The point is he hasn't earned a higher seed. I missed that Colucci is 0-2 for Rutgers. He should be the 13 and Kerk should be the 12. It looks like in both cases, coaches took eye test/reputation into account and seeded them higher than they've earned.

 

[rmg78]

There are 2 HWTs in the field that have 0 wins. You honestly believe he should be seeded behind them? I know what seeds are and I don't believe 2 guys that have 0 wins and 4 guys that have records of 1-5 or 2-6 should be seeded ahead of Kerk at 2-0. I get the whole "let's not make it too hard on Gable, Paris and Cass argument." The only way to "fix" it is to seed him 4 or 5. If not, no coaches should be crying about their guy hitting our monster in quarters

If they are only using results this year he is basically the 10seed bc 2 guys (Rutgers and MD) guys have 0 wins, 1 guy has one win (over the MD guy) and another has 2 wins but neither are against anyone in the field (one against the NW backup and another from an extra match against MSU). So if you make him the 10 seed he still faces Paris in the quarters, though against a slightly more difficult first round matchup.

 

[pish69]

If they are only using results this year he is basically the 10seed bc 2 guys (Rutgers and MD) guys have 0 wins, 1 guy has one win (over the MD guy) and another has 2 wins but neither are against anyone in the field (one against the NW backup and another from an extra match against MSU). So if you make him the 10 seed he still faces Paris in the quarters, though against a slightly more difficult first round matchup.

Let me be clear if I haven’t been. I don’t care where Kerk is seeded because he’s the “sniper” so the speak. He’s going to disrupt the apple cart. There’s a lot of people complaining that Paris, Gable and Cass shouldn’t have to face Kerk in quarters. That is why people are saying Kerk should be 13 so he can face the 4 seed right off the bat (which would be a pin for Kerk) and he wouldn’t get Gable, Paris, Cass trio in quarters. My point in all of this is you can put Kerk anywhere from 4-12 but you can’t put him behind 2 guys with 0 wins

 

[RoarLions1]

It's tough to seed when most guys in a weight class have six or fewer bouts, and there's 14 teams. 10 of the 14 guys in the Big Ten fit the six-or-fewer stat.

#14 Kappes is 0-5
#13 Streck is 1-5 with only a Sudden Victory win vs #14 Kappes
#12 Keys is 2-4 with only wins against the NU back-up and an "extra" bout
#11 Colucci is 0-2
#10 Heyob is 1-4 with only a 2-1 win vs #14 Kappes
#9 Rebattaro is 1-4 with only a win vs #13 Streck
#8 Orndorff was 4-5, and the first guy I would consider moving in front of Kerkvliet

I could start at the other end too, and go through Steveson, Parris, Cassioppi, Luffman, Lance and Hillger, and give stats that support where they are.

If the guys behind Kerkvliet had earned a higher seed, I'd say give it to them, but they didn't. Now, with 7 allocation spots, plus plenty of at-large available, plus it's a double-elimination tournament, I'm ready to see how it all plays out.

 

[IANit]

I agree with Willie on this one. The worst seeding of all is Romero at #6.

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What's the issue there? Washington is obviously getting a lot of credit for beating Starocci. He has apparently wrestled well since being pinned by Massa 6 or 7 weeks ago. Massa might be penalized a bit for his loss to Carter. But Labriola is unbeaten, so having him at #2 would seem to make sense based on the regular season. Washington did better against some common opponents than Romero. Starocci ahead of Massa makes sense. This looks like a tough weight class.

 

[dunkej01]

 

[IANit]

What's the issue there? Washington is obviously getting a lot of credit for beating Starocci. He has apparently wrestled well since being pinned by Massa 6 or 7 weeks ago. Massa might be penalized a bit for his loss to Carter. But Labriola is unbeaten, so having him at #2 would seem to make sense based on the regular season. Washington did better against some common opponents than Romero. Starocci ahead of Massa makes sense. This looks like a tough weight class.

I guess Willie's post had something to do with Kemerer "ducking" Labriola.

 

[82bordeaux]

What's the issue there? Washington is obviously getting a lot of credit for beating Starocci. He has apparently wrestled well since being pinned by Massa 6 or 7 weeks ago. Massa might be penalized a bit for his loss to Carter. But Labriola is unbeaten, so having him at #2 would seem to make sense based on the regular season. Washington did better against some common opponents than Romero. Starocci ahead of Massa makes sense. This looks like a tough weight class.

My only issue is that sometimes the body of work in past years is taken into account, and other times it is not. In this shortened season, the coaches should take more into account than 5-7 matches when more information is available. Romero has a body of work from last year to fall back on as a reference point. Generally in a bracket of 16 or less, the 1-5 seeds are the most critical. I'm not diminishing Washington's season or ability, but IMO when 2 wrestlers are close with very limited data points, those seeding should A; look back on prior years for data and B; use experience to determine who deserves to be seeded higher. That is what they did in the same weight class to discern Kemerer vs. Labriola. Based on the 2021 data, Labriola is more deserving of the 1 seed. But when you factor in A and B, he is not. So I say be consistent throughout the entire bracket.
Otherwise, have a computer program seed everyone. But an excellent argument can be made for either side. So in retrospect, saying the seeding was terrible was an overstatement on my part. I think it could have been improved, but not terrible.