lionlover: I'm shocked that you don't call out Nolf's arrogant arrangement of the ankle bands as he recklessly celebrates his victories! He obviously has no class.
Cassar & Hall's: Classless Post Match Celebrations
- Thread starter lionlover
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I hope someone’s account got hacked? Calling out kids on a forum, telling them they have no class? SMH. Me thinks one should check ones own class?
If you’re stuck in the old ways of college athletes and how they should behave, I get it, you’re “old school.” But I think we’ve all seen enough to know Old School is out, F** is in. Hall was certainly just having some F-U-N! Loved it. I won’t comment on Cassar. I didn’t catch it live (people scrambling for the door... see “Leaving Early; Not A Rant” thread) and my DVR didn’t record heavy (my fault for not extending 30-min).
If you’re stuck in the old ways of college athletes and how they should behave, I get it, you’re “old school.” But I think we’ve all seen enough to know Old School is out, F** is in. Hall was certainly just having some F-U-N! Loved it. I won’t comment on Cassar. I didn’t catch it live (people scrambling for the door... see “Leaving Early; Not A Rant” thread) and my DVR didn’t record heavy (my fault for not extending 30-min).
I'm admittedly not a fan of any rehearsed celebration, particularly not on a wrestling mat, but for God's sake, Hall just beat the returning national champion easily as a sizable underdog (and I know we have fans here that had all the faith in the world in Mark Hall, but the rest of the wrestling world picked Valencia in their rematch) and he struck a pose in celebration. My kids were both wrestlers (good ones I suppose based on most peoples' perspectives) and they knew that I'd allow no silly celebrations and certainly no taunting of their opponents, but neither of my sons ever beat a national champion in a highly advertised dual meet either.
I thought RBY’s finger wag at their coach, who he knows, was all in fun. Mark’s air guitar was for the fans.......again all in fun. He had turned away from ZV. No issues. Could have done without the face mush.
Cassar’s was something I could do without. You want to do something to juice the crowd, all for it. No reason for anything other than a handshake after the humiliation he put on that kid, essentially a backup. If AC goes for PSU next year, Tanner Hall will be ready.
Shaking the other coaches hand in victory or defeat is classy.
Cassar’s was something I could do without. You want to do something to juice the crowd, all for it. No reason for anything other than a handshake after the humiliation he put on that kid, essentially a backup. If AC goes for PSU next year, Tanner Hall will be ready.
Shaking the other coaches hand in victory or defeat is classy.
God forbid anyone shows personality on a wrestling mat. If that continues, the sport may eventually be watched by someone who doesn't have cauliflower ears. Nobody wants that.
I always understood that shaking hands with an opposing coach was a tournament tradition since at a dual you have the traditional end-of-dual handshake line making the intra-dual handshake redundant.
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So true, don’t forget Nolf’s arrogant “#1” hand gesture when getting his hand raised... horrifyingly classless.
I always understood that shaking hands with an opposing coach was a tournament tradition since at at dual you have the traditional end-of-dual handshake line making the intra-dual handshake redundant.
Some kids do it and some kids don't. Personally I liked to see my kids do it and always encouraged them to do so. Sometimes it's because the kids are friendly with some of the nearby coaches, but I see it as a sign of sportsmanship and respect. And that said, it's pretty common for the coach or coaches to be back coaching up their next wrestler, so sometimes you don't have the opportunity.
There WAS something different in Cassar’s display, which not only appeared to humiliate, but wasn’t against a top ranked starter and....it didn’t even happen at the end of an exciting match. He kinda waited around after the hand raise to do it.
I agree to your point, but people can go too far. Even the NFL has fined for inappropriate celebrations during the new wave of end zone fun. AC was a little too far.
Cassar's fasciai expression was flat our funny. My wife's reaction was quite amusing as well, like WTF was that without the F, lol. Really would like to see a GIF of that one. Paging LP.
Hahah. And every time he does this I recall his stoic response to Quint Kessinich’s question after winning the NC “Were you having fun out there?”So true, don’t forget Nolf’s arrogant “#1” hand gesture when getting his hand raised... horrifyingly classless.
“I had fun getting my hand raised”. Lol
Could be the Air Guitar was directed at those who doubted Mark based on the notion he's been playing too much Fortnite (see link). If so, I find it both clever and FUNny.
My personal preference is to see wrestlers walk back to the center, get their arm raised, shake the other coaches hand, and run back to their corner. Same as just handing the ball to the referee after a TD. Act like you've been there before was always mantra as a wrestler and a coach. It is up to our coaches to decide where the line is and I'm sure they will address anything they feel is too much.
I do think that fans need to hold their own wrestlers to the same standard as they hold others to, so if you complain about a little post win celebration when an Iowa wrestler does it, you can't come on here and say what Hall or RBY or Cassar did is ok. Having a double standard if far worse than anything these kids are doing after a big win. Either be consistent or go home. A double standard just makes you look like an ass.
I do think that fans need to hold their own wrestlers to the same standard as they hold others to, so if you complain about a little post win celebration when an Iowa wrestler does it, you can't come on here and say what Hall or RBY or Cassar did is ok. Having a double standard if far worse than anything these kids are doing after a big win. Either be consistent or go home. A double standard just makes you look like an ass.
To your double standard comment. I also agree. Seriously, if someone with the talent of Snyder did the AC after beating Alex Nicholas, would any of us be happy??
I had no issue with the other celebrations.
I'm having a hard time working up any emotion at all on this topic. Bottom line is we have much more opportunity to celebrate than the other guys.
The only thing I'll agree with is the double standard. If Zahid would have clubbed Mark (and I know he retaliated), some of us, including myself would have been pissed. If Spencer techs Gavin and ends the match with a little celebration, then I'll sit there stoically without protest. If Kaleb Young face mushes Nolf after majoring him, well, I'll smash my ****ing tv because it's sending me erroneous information, lol.
I had no problem with Mark's celebration. He's done similar things before. Most of his matches are pretty clinical. He seems to raise his emotions for only the biggest matches. No problem with Cassar. I thought it was funny. I called Silvio and I'm sticking to that. I was slightly put off by RBYs finger pointing if it was at the opposing coach. But somebody made a good point. He probably knows Zeke well and Zeke probably made out like they were best friends during recruiting. Win some, lose some.
The only thing I'll agree with is the double standard. If Zahid would have clubbed Mark (and I know he retaliated), some of us, including myself would have been pissed. If Spencer techs Gavin and ends the match with a little celebration, then I'll sit there stoically without protest. If Kaleb Young face mushes Nolf after majoring him, well, I'll smash my ****ing tv because it's sending me erroneous information, lol.
I had no problem with Mark's celebration. He's done similar things before. Most of his matches are pretty clinical. He seems to raise his emotions for only the biggest matches. No problem with Cassar. I thought it was funny. I called Silvio and I'm sticking to that. I was slightly put off by RBYs finger pointing if it was at the opposing coach. But somebody made a good point. He probably knows Zeke well and Zeke probably made out like they were best friends during recruiting. Win some, lose some.
I thought Cassar's shoulder shrug was dangerous. I almost died laughing.
p.s. I have a co-worker who recently won an award. It was deserved. He doesn't actually do the job he was hired to do, but he is tremendous with customers and I'm certain that is more important to management.
After winning the award, he twitted about it. Not how I would have handled it, but OK. A week later, he tweeted about it again, and I'm thinking, "OK dude, we heard you the first time". The point is, its a generational thing. The world is changing rapidly. Adapt or die? If it comes to the point where I have to tweet about myself a couple times a week, I'm probably tapping out.
After winning the award, he twitted about it. Not how I would have handled it, but OK. A week later, he tweeted about it again, and I'm thinking, "OK dude, we heard you the first time". The point is, its a generational thing. The world is changing rapidly. Adapt or die? If it comes to the point where I have to tweet about myself a couple times a week, I'm probably tapping out.
AC is now being held to the standards of an Olympic gold medalist? Snyder is one of the most decorated wrestlers in the world. Cassar has been busting his butt to make the starting lineup of his team. I think beating "a backup" means a hell of a lot more to AC, because it means he is finally wrestling.
Sheesh. Ok. If Tanner Hall had beaten Nicholas did the shoulder shrug eye roll and WTF.... We would have had a problem with it.
AC is that good. He knows it, he has already shown us, and the other guy was a fish.
If AC beats Tanner Hall, I’m all for what he did.
Again....no issue with any other celebration.
Wow! I can't believe how everyone is jumping on this guys back. I also thought the antics were below what I would expect of a Cael team. I was there when Nolf beat Martinez and Nolf was complete class and did not make any gestures.
We cannot expect the kids not to be emotional and not to celebrate but we can notice when they are a bit out of character for a Cael team. Hall and Cassar did not do anything that was horrible, but it did stand out and quite honestly, if you guys are going to be the "TEAM" to beat, you will be the "TEAM" everyone notices, judges, and looks for fault in. This kind of scrutiny comes with the joys of being the best. Enjoy the ride.
We cannot expect the kids not to be emotional and not to celebrate but we can notice when they are a bit out of character for a Cael team. Hall and Cassar did not do anything that was horrible, but it did stand out and quite honestly, if you guys are going to be the "TEAM" to beat, you will be the "TEAM" everyone notices, judges, and looks for fault in. This kind of scrutiny comes with the joys of being the best. Enjoy the ride.
This is a good thread you started and valid point but going far out t o compare to Miami spoils it and discounts your reasonable first post.
I have it on good authority Mark Hall might leave us Thunderstruck Saturday night in March.
Hall was pumped. He celebrated. No demeaning of opponent. Good fun.
Cassar, I’m not sure. An argument for a display of cockiness could be made.
RBY, unless there is some good hearted back story to that one, not a fan.
Hall was pumped. He celebrated. No demeaning of opponent. Good fun.
Cassar, I’m not sure. An argument for a display of cockiness could be made.
RBY, unless there is some good hearted back story to that one, not a fan.
IMO lionlover did this potentially valuable thread a tremendous disservice by building its premise around the word “classless”. It touched off an illogical defense of an important topic.
I’m admittedly from a different era, where the vast majority of the coaches I learned sports from were WWII vets that valued the old Grantland Rice school of thought, “It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game.”
I also was never blessed with the ability to play or coach any sport at the elite level the PSU student athletes do so it might be difficult for me to relate to the emotions of winning at this level, but I still find value in that old school mindset today and try subscribe to it in all things I do from raising a family to running my business.
I know it’s the “me” generation we’re talking about, but I would still welcome raising the bar one more notch at a first-class program, by adding “showing unquestionable respect for a defeated opponent” to “how we do things.”
I’m admittedly from a different era, where the vast majority of the coaches I learned sports from were WWII vets that valued the old Grantland Rice school of thought, “It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game.”
I also was never blessed with the ability to play or coach any sport at the elite level the PSU student athletes do so it might be difficult for me to relate to the emotions of winning at this level, but I still find value in that old school mindset today and try subscribe to it in all things I do from raising a family to running my business.
I know it’s the “me” generation we’re talking about, but I would still welcome raising the bar one more notch at a first-class program, by adding “showing unquestionable respect for a defeated opponent” to “how we do things.”
A good civil war here is refreshingHR gets a break for a bit. Not that you care but I saw no problem with what RBY or Hall did. Cassar was a bit over the top but nothing to bark about imo
HR gets a break for a bit. Not that you care but I saw no problem with what RBY or Hall did. Cassar was a bit over the top but nothing to bark about imo
Could it be we are seeing the "black hat" effect of which Robbie Howard spoke?
Need to ensure the verbal becomes a signing. All part of a 3" binder master plan that builds on Bo's "That's what we do" speech.
I once saw Zain Retherford clap his hands after beating Logan Steiber, and I was so horrified and appalled that my monocle fell out.
I guess, for me, it is the difference between celebrating your victory and disrespecting your opponent. But that can be a difficult line to draw. I saw Anthony's gesture as a put down to his opponent. Others may see it differently.
This is much less ambiguous as well as more direspectful to the competition and his family than an innocuous shoulder shrug.
i guess we will find out who's actions Cael finds offensive next time out. He will set the tone and direction. Personally while I thought AC's forgedaboutit was funny as heck it did give me pause. If he wins NCAA's and does the Cassious Clay shuffle with the New Jersey slant that would be an appropriate face mush in my eyes
i'm not crazy about it but as long as it is not taunting then I'm ok. Just don't do it in the face of the opponent. Gotta remember what goes in to being in the position of getting your hand raised. More work than I do !
OMG. Unreal to say the least. Let's make everything boring with no fun or excitement. Life would be so fun. Lol
Point taken. I did my best for people to grasp the concept of who he was wrestling. Bad job on my part to try yet another angle.
Lets try this: The kid has beaten a #1, a #2 a #6 and #15. Is there a reason to create that type of celebration beating the teams backup?
If y’all can’t see the difference, then we just don’t have the same view. Let’s just move on.
On the positive side: who here remembers Cenzo’s first NCAA finals victory over I-Mar? After he pinned him, he got that ... “OMG, did that really just happen” expression and fell backwards on the mat... priceless (vs classless)!
For RBY I think it was a gesture that he took it as a personal insult that ASU thought that their bumped up #7 ranked 125 lb. guy could beat him. I think RBY was excited he won his match against his home state team against a good wrestler that at least some thought could beat him. The duration of the gesture was approximately 1 second. I don't have a big problem with the RBY gesture.
Mark Hall just won a match that was a HUGE personal victory for him. He avenged his loss from the finals last year and the majority of the wrestling world had written him off for ever having a chance to beat Zahid again. When he won he was rightfully excited and when you are excited after a big emotional victory you might just want to celebrate. I don't think Mark's celebration was aimed at anyone in particular other than he was excited for his big win. The duration of the air guitar was maybe 2 seconds and i have no problem with his celebration over a big win. If he had done the celebration after beating some unranked nobody it would have probably been excessive.
I liked Cassar's celebration the least. He beat a freshman backup that nobody in the world ever expected him to lose to. He didn't accomplish anything he wasn't supposed to do. He didn't silence any doubters, he didn't do anything spectacular, he won the match like nearly everyone expected him to do. His gesture didn't come out of sheer excitement from a tough fought win. It was more of an arrogant demeaning gesture that took up at least 5 seconds.
Mark Hall just won a match that was a HUGE personal victory for him. He avenged his loss from the finals last year and the majority of the wrestling world had written him off for ever having a chance to beat Zahid again. When he won he was rightfully excited and when you are excited after a big emotional victory you might just want to celebrate. I don't think Mark's celebration was aimed at anyone in particular other than he was excited for his big win. The duration of the air guitar was maybe 2 seconds and i have no problem with his celebration over a big win. If he had done the celebration after beating some unranked nobody it would have probably been excessive.
I liked Cassar's celebration the least. He beat a freshman backup that nobody in the world ever expected him to lose to. He didn't accomplish anything he wasn't supposed to do. He didn't silence any doubters, he didn't do anything spectacular, he won the match like nearly everyone expected him to do. His gesture didn't come out of sheer excitement from a tough fought win. It was more of an arrogant demeaning gesture that took up at least 5 seconds.
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