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Defending Rahne

tboyer

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Sep 25, 2002
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I'm not exactly a Rahne-worshipper but I think the PSU game plan made sense for that kind of a game. There were some really nice play calls and nicely conceived plays. Blackledge pointed out the excellent play change (probably called by Rahne) that led to Noah Cain's TD - they saw the Iowa linebackers shading too far inside so they knew the TD was there outside. I loved the quick throw to Friermuth for the TD that O'Neil stole.

It was an old fashioned field-position game so not turning the ball over was of paramount importance. This was not the game to get fancy, it was not the game to throw over the middle against Geno Stone who is a really good safety who wanted to come to PSU and didn't get an offer. Especially with the Iowa DL playing the way they were, it wasn't the time for slow-developing deep passes.

The other Rahne criticism I'm seeing is -- if they could run the ball so well with Cain, why didn't they do it earlier. But it's not at all clear it would have worked earlier.

What we know is that PSU was able to run the ball right at the Iowa D-tackles in the fourth quarter -- when; they were fatigued. And the drive was done with tempo to capitalize on that fatigue. Cain was wonderful -- he is a major league talent, there's no question of that now. He's a man among boys.

But it mattered that Cain was in there with relatively fresh legs against an Iowa defense that definitely did not have fresh legs at that point.

Anyway, I was really not sold on Rahne the first three games of the season but I think he is doing well.

The PSU offense is at a big disadvantage because they have not been able to develop a tall outside wide receiver. They don't have anybody who can do what Brandon Smith did to John Reid. That is a BIG problem but it won't be solved until Shorter and George can stay healthy enough to start to make some catches.

In the meantime Rahne has to work with what he has, which is a good group but really nothing like the receiver talent they had a couple of years ago. I love Hamler and Dotson both -- there isn't a better pair of 5-8/5-10 receivers in the country I'm sure. But they are 5-8/5-10 type slot receivers and there are lots of things they can't do simply because they can't outjump the corners guarding them, they can't win the 50-50 balls.

If PSU can get Shorter or George (or maybe Chisena, but I haven't seen much that encourages me about him) going, it totally changes the PSU offense. In the meantime they're going to have to grit their way through these next two weeks with what they have.
 
I'm not exactly a Rahne-worshipper but I think the PSU game plan made sense for that kind of a game. There were some really nice play calls and nicely conceived plays. Blackledge pointed out the excellent play change (probably called by Rahne) that led to Noah Cain's TD - they saw the Iowa linebackers shading too far inside so they knew the TD was there outside. I loved the quick throw to Friermuth for the TD that O'Neil stole.

It was an old fashioned field-position game so not turning the ball over was of paramount importance. This was not the game to get fancy, it was not the game to throw over the middle against Geno Stone who is a really good safety who wanted to come to PSU and didn't get an offer. Especially with the Iowa DL playing the way they were, it wasn't the time for slow-developing deep passes.

The other Rahne criticism I'm seeing is -- if they could run the ball so well with Cain, why didn't they do it earlier. But it's not at all clear it would have worked earlier.

What we know is that PSU was able to run the ball right at the Iowa D-tackles in the fourth quarter -- when; they were fatigued. And the drive was done with tempo to capitalize on that fatigue. Cain was wonderful -- he is a major league talent, there's no question of that now. He's a man among boys.

But it mattered that Cain was in there with relatively fresh legs against an Iowa defense that definitely did not have fresh legs at that point.

Anyway, I was really not sold on Rahne the first three games of the season but I think he is doing well.

The PSU offense is at a big disadvantage because they have not been able to develop a tall outside wide receiver. They don't have anybody who can do what Brandon Smith did to John Reid. That is a BIG problem but it won't be solved until Shorter and George can stay healthy enough to start to make some catches.

In the meantime Rahne has to work with what he has, which is a good group but really nothing like the receiver talent they had a couple of years ago. I love Hamler and Dotson both -- there isn't a better pair of 5-8/5-10 receivers in the country I'm sure. But they are 5-8/5-10 type slot receivers and there are lots of things they can't do simply because they can't outjump the corners guarding them, they can't win the 50-50 balls.

If PSU can get Shorter or George (or maybe Chisena, but I haven't seen much that encourages me about him) going, it totally changes the PSU offense. In the meantime they're going to have to grit their way through these next two weeks with what they have.
Good analysis.
 
Well what i have seen is that this offense will struggle if it cannot get the big chunk yard plays, this up to Rahne to figure out how to do it. Pitt, Purdue (2nd half) and Iowa all played zone defense and kept us from getting the deep ball.
 
I thought Rahne called his best game of the year last night. Maryland was good too, but there was more creativity and complexity with the run game last night that we've seen. The only problem from our end last night was a lack of execution...both from Clifford who was rattled early and some drops from the WRs when Clifford finally loosened up. But the play calls were spot on. If the execution were better and John O'Neill didn't rob PSU of 28 points, then this could have turned into a solid win.
 
I don’t know. The offense looked terrible through two drives and once Cain entered on the 3rd drive, they all settled in. Cain was getting 4-5 a carry in the first half too.

I understand that there’s a lot of talent in the RB room but whenever Cain enters the game our offense is noticeably and statistically more efficient. Hopefully Slade can find a role but I think it’s becoming obvious we need to shrink the RB committee.
 
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I'm not exactly a Rahne-worshipper but I think the PSU game plan made sense for that kind of a game. There were some really nice play calls and nicely conceived plays. Blackledge pointed out the excellent play change (probably called by Rahne) that led to Noah Cain's TD - they saw the Iowa linebackers shading too far inside so they knew the TD was there outside. I loved the quick throw to Friermuth for the TD that O'Neil stole.

It was an old fashioned field-position game so not turning the ball over was of paramount importance. This was not the game to get fancy, it was not the game to throw over the middle against Geno Stone who is a really good safety who wanted to come to PSU and didn't get an offer. Especially with the Iowa DL playing the way they were, it wasn't the time for slow-developing deep passes.

The other Rahne criticism I'm seeing is -- if they could run the ball so well with Cain, why didn't they do it earlier. But it's not at all clear it would have worked earlier.

What we know is that PSU was able to run the ball right at the Iowa D-tackles in the fourth quarter -- when; they were fatigued. And the drive was done with tempo to capitalize on that fatigue. Cain was wonderful -- he is a major league talent, there's no question of that now. He's a man among boys.

But it mattered that Cain was in there with relatively fresh legs against an Iowa defense that definitely did not have fresh legs at that point.

Anyway, I was really not sold on Rahne the first three games of the season but I think he is doing well.

The PSU offense is at a big disadvantage because they have not been able to develop a tall outside wide receiver. They don't have anybody who can do what Brandon Smith did to John Reid. That is a BIG problem but it won't be solved until Shorter and George can stay healthy enough to start to make some catches.

In the meantime Rahne has to work with what he has, which is a good group but really nothing like the receiver talent they had a couple of years ago. I love Hamler and Dotson both -- there isn't a better pair of 5-8/5-10 receivers in the country I'm sure. But they are 5-8/5-10 type slot receivers and there are lots of things they can't do simply because they can't outjump the corners guarding them, they can't win the 50-50 balls.

If PSU can get Shorter or George (or maybe Chisena, but I haven't seen much that encourages me about him) going, it totally changes the PSU offense. In the meantime they're going to have to grit their way through these next two weeks with what they have.
Excuses. Plain and simple. With the talent we are recruiting, it is up to the coaches to do more. They even caught Franklin screaming at Rahne to throw the f’ing ball! This offense isn’t balanced or consistent. Nor is it explosive when facing a decent team.

Cliff is throwing off his back feet too often...mainly the result of poor blocking. It’s a bad habit and he had two balls that were dangerous yesterday. How can Iowa complete short high percentage passes but we can’t? Rahne needs to improve. Hell, the whole offense not named hamler, friermouth and Cain need to improve.

Thank goodness for our defense.
 
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You may be right. I think everybody agrees Cain is a game changing back and they will lean on him more and more.

I wasn't too upset about the 1st quarter. You know it's going to be a low scoring game. Most important thing is not to give up the turnover that would have set that place on fire. Gilliken was punting well. Not surprising that there was some nerves and shaky play by Clifford and others. That's a high pressure experience. But they avoided turnovers and that is the biggest reason they won. It would have been very easy to let that game slip away especially with the B1G pulling so hard for Iowa.


I don’t know. The offense looked terrible through two drives and once Cain entered on the 3rd drive, they all settled in. Cain was getting 4-5 a carry in the first half too.

I understand that there’s a lot of talent in the RB room but whenever Cain enters the game our offense is noticeably and statistically more efficient. Hopefully Slade can find a role but I think it’s becoming obvious we need to shrink the RB committee.
 
Excuses. Plain and simple. With the talent we are recruiting, it is up to the coaches to do more. They even caught Franklin screaming at Rahne to throw the f’ing ball! This offense isn’t balanced or consistent. Nor is it explosive when facing a decent team.

Cliff is throwing off his back feet too often...mainly the result of poor blocking. It’s a bad habit and he had two balls that were dangerous yesterday. How can Iowa complete short high percentage passes but we can’t? Rahne needs to improve. Hell, the whole offense not named hamler, friermouth and Cain need to improve.

Thank goodness for our defense.

But the defense is great. We won a national title with John Shaeffer and we were knocking on the door with Kevin Thompson, Mike Robinson, and Darryll Clark. You do not need to have Joe Montana at QB if you have a great defense, and ours is very fast.

Iowa had about two successful plays against us last night. One was when a PSU DB tripped and almost fell down. The other was a bizarre circus catch that occurred while Reid was going for the INT. Other than that Iowa could not do much of anything on offense.
 
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Excuses. Plain and simple. With the talent we are recruiting, it is up to the coaches to do more. They even caught Franklin screaming at Rahne to throw the f’ing ball! This offense isn’t balanced or consistent. Nor is it explosive when facing a decent team.

Cliff is throwing off his back feet too often...mainly the result of poor blocking. It’s a bad habit and he had two balls that were dangerous yesterday. How can Iowa complete short high percentage passes but we can’t? Rahne needs to improve. Hell, the whole offense not named hamler, friermouth and Cain need to improve.

Thank goodness for our defense.

You nailed it. Look at how open the Hawkeyes WR's were all night. They threw those 7-8 yard sideline passes on first or second down time and again, while we struggled getting one yard on the same type of pass. This offense has to be more efficient against a descent defense with all the play-makers we have or we will be in big trouble this coming Saturday. Many posters have been predicting an easy win against UM this year. I hope I'm wrong but I just do not agree with them. Don't count on Windsor having another man among boys game against a future NFL OG that UM has, Bredeson.
 
I'm not exactly a Rahne-worshipper but I think the PSU game plan made sense for that kind of a game. There were some really nice play calls and nicely conceived plays. Blackledge pointed out the excellent play change (probably called by Rahne) that led to Noah Cain's TD - they saw the Iowa linebackers shading too far inside so they knew the TD was there outside. I loved the quick throw to Friermuth for the TD that O'Neil stole.

It was an old fashioned field-position game so not turning the ball over was of paramount importance. This was not the game to get fancy, it was not the game to throw over the middle against Geno Stone who is a really good safety who wanted to come to PSU and didn't get an offer. Especially with the Iowa DL playing the way they were, it wasn't the time for slow-developing deep passes.

The other Rahne criticism I'm seeing is -- if they could run the ball so well with Cain, why didn't they do it earlier. But it's not at all clear it would have worked earlier.

What we know is that PSU was able to run the ball right at the Iowa D-tackles in the fourth quarter -- when; they were fatigued. And the drive was done with tempo to capitalize on that fatigue. Cain was wonderful -- he is a major league talent, there's no question of that now. He's a man among boys.

But it mattered that Cain was in there with relatively fresh legs against an Iowa defense that definitely did not have fresh legs at that point.

Anyway, I was really not sold on Rahne the first three games of the season but I think he is doing well.

The PSU offense is at a big disadvantage because they have not been able to develop a tall outside wide receiver. They don't have anybody who can do what Brandon Smith did to John Reid. That is a BIG problem but it won't be solved until Shorter and George can stay healthy enough to start to make some catches.

In the meantime Rahne has to work with what he has, which is a good group but really nothing like the receiver talent they had a couple of years ago. I love Hamler and Dotson both -- there isn't a better pair of 5-8/5-10 receivers in the country I'm sure. But they are 5-8/5-10 type slot receivers and there are lots of things they can't do simply because they can't outjump the corners guarding them, they can't win the 50-50 balls.

If PSU can get Shorter or George (or maybe Chisena, but I haven't seen much that encourages me about him) going, it totally changes the PSU offense. In the meantime they're going to have to grit their way through these next two weeks with what they have.
This is an unbelievable amount of rationalism. Are you a woman? The way you spin things and modify reality is something only women do. Not all women, but you must be one of them.
In other words, I am calling complete bullshit on this diatribe.
 
You nailed it. Look at how open the Hawkeyes WR's were all night. They threw those 7-8 yard sideline passes on first or second down time and again, while we struggled getting one yard on the same type of pass. This offense has to be more efficient against a descent defense with all the play-makers we have or we will be in big trouble this coming Saturday. Many posters have been predicting an easy win against UM this year. I hope I'm wrong but I just do not agree with them. Don't count on Windsor having another man among boys game against a future NFL OG that UM has, Bredeson.
Open all night = one touchdown
 
This is an unbelievable amount of rationalism. Are you a woman? The way you spin things and modify reality is something only women do. Not all women, but you must be one of them.
In other words, I am calling complete bullshit on this diatribe.

BFD. He's being optimistic. Post your own critique or stop b_tching.
 
BFD. He's being optimistic. Post your own critique or stop b_tching.
How does posting my own critique help or hurt in any way? My thoughts aren't any different than many that have posted here that don't have their heads in the sand. I'm tired of people defending all things PSU in defiance of any sound logic. But I'm sure your critique would be awesome.
 
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I still do not understand why we apparently have nothing in our playbook to put our QB under center. Even when we have 3rd-4th and less than a yard, we only utilize a shotgun formation. I realize Franklin and Rahne have inherited JoMo’s RPO offense, but how about just a little common sense and some old school power football in short yardage situations ? Iowa successfully ran QB sneaks under center a few times last night in 4th and less than yard, but we can’t seem to figure out how to use this most basic of formations to do the same ? I’m not a coach, so someone enlighten me. Too hard to adjust for the OLine ? Don’t practice it, so too risky in a game ? Don’t feel confident Clifford can run/push behind our center/guards for a few feet ?
 
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Look we know UM is going to bring pressure and play lots of man the weak spot of there defense is across the middle in between the LBs and Safetys its where OSU attacked them last year and its been there issue this year as well
 
It just occurred to me, but maybe the reason why we saw J Brown and Slade in the first quarter last night was because of their veteran status. With Sean being rattled, I'm guessing the coaching staff didn't want two true freshman running backs playing early in such a hostile environment along side him. Once Clifford settled a little, that seems to be when Ford and Cain got some reps. Also, I like Rhane. There have been few if any late developing handoffs in the backfield getting stuffed for negative yardage this year.
 
How does posting my own critique help or hurt in any way? My thoughts aren't any different than many that have posted here that don't have their heads in the sand. I'm tired of people defending all things PSU in defiance of any sound logic. But I'm sure your critique would be awesome.
Here's my critique.

Road wins in any conference are not easy.
Road wins against ranked teams are not easy.
Road wins against top 5 defenses are not easy.

We won.
 
My biggest problem is that we continue to lack a short yardage package. We all know that we got screwed on the Friermuth TD reversal. That said, does it make ANY sense to stubbornly remain in the shotgun with one yard to go? Is it just pride that prevents us from having the QB under center on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1? It's burned us in the past and my fear is it will again in the future. Otherwise I thought he called a decent game.
 
Cain did run effectively when he was in the game early on. He was clearly running well and could have been used as a hot hand instead of inserting Ford on series 4.

Cain ran very well and was instrumental in bringing us out from deep in our end In the third quarter to roughly mid-field when we inserted Slade and threw three straight passes and killed the drive.
 
I dont think Rahne is as good at creating mismatches at Moorhead was before you all say Miss State offense is not lighting it up you have to remember wearing the hat of a head coach and play caller at the same time is not as easy just doing one job.
 
My biggest problem is that we continue to lack a short yardage package. We all know that we got screwed on the Friermuth TD reversal. That said, does it make ANY sense to stubbornly remain in the shotgun with one yard to go? Is it just pride that prevents us from having the QB under center on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1? It's burned us in the past and my fear is it will again in the future. Otherwise I thought he called a decent game.

It's the philosophy that you do not do something that you do not rep, rep, and then rep some more.

I'm generally on board with that, but completely taking the sneak out of your playbook is dogmatic and a step too far
 
I still do not understand why we apparently have nothing in our playbook to put our QB under center. Even when we have 3rd-4th and less than a yard, we only utilize a shotgun formation. I realize Franklin and Rahne have inherited JoMo’s RPO offense, but how about just a little common sense and some old school power football in short yardage situations ? Iowa successfully ran QB sneaks under center a few times last night in 4th and less than yard, but we can’t seem to figure out how to use this most basic of formations to do the same ? I’m not a coach, so someone enlighten me. Too hard to adjust for the OLine ? Don’t practice it, so too risky in a game ? Don’t feel confident Clifford can run/push behind our center/guards for a few feet ?

Uh, no. Offenses either evolve or they get killed. If Rahne is incapable of designing and implementing changes to make the offense more effective and less predictable he shouldn't be the OC.
 
I've been called a lot of things but this is new insight I guess. Now you go to Ignore since you don't seem to have anything to bring to the party. Why don't you do the same for me? Thanks.

Well he did say you provided "an unbelievable amount of rationalism." That is a compliment, even if you don't like the rest of his post.;)
 
BFD. He's being optimistic. Post your own critique or stop b_tching.

Not THAT optimistic but I had my pitchfork out for Rahne a couple of weeks ago; now, not so much.

I think the PSU offense has a big hole right now with the lack of size at wide receiver. It limits the passing game. If there's one thing I would wish for this team right now it would be for Shorter to suddenly re-appear and start catching some passes at the deep sideline.

But you can't have everything. The team is pretty solid everywhere else. Having a QB who is heady and tough and doesn't crack under pressure, and a freshmen running back who is already a big time player -- that is good news.
 
Not THAT optimistic but I had my pitchfork out for Rahne a couple of weeks ago; now, not so much.

I think the PSU offense has a big hole right now with the lack of size at wide receiver. It limits the passing game. If there's one thing I would wish for this team right now it would be for Shorter to suddenly re-appear and start catching some passes at the deep sideline.

But you can't have everything. The team is pretty solid everywhere else.

The playcalling is still far from inspired. I'll give Rahne last night. Playing it close to the vest in that environment made sense. It won't win in Columbus.
 
I dont think Rahne is as good at creating mismatches at Moorhead was before you all say Miss State offense is not lighting it up you have to remember wearing the hat of a head coach and play caller at the same time is not as easy just doing one job.
Oh please bring back the vaunted flat footed handoff out of shotgun that took about 4 seconds

Moorhead won us a big ten title in 2016 and he cost us a shot at the national title in 2017
 
Franklin did comment at his press conference that he felt the running package was too limited; there just wasn't enough variety of plays. So they have worked to address that and we saw some of that against Iowa -- like the counters, some pulling.

But I don't know about the risk of going under center. Are there shotgun teams at the college level that go under center in short yardage situations? Can it be done without an unacceptable level of turnovers? I'd love to see it. I'd love to see them run the I with Cain and Micah Parsons at fullback. The way Gonzalez/Menet/Miranda are run-blocking right now, I don't know how they wouldn't get 4-5 yards almost automatically.

I assume the issue is -- an offense can only learn so much stuff, and you don't want to do stuff that risks turnovers. This PSU team is shaping up to be a lunch bucket kind of team that is going to win, if it wins, with timely scoring and defense. Totally different identity from 1996. That team could have 3-4 turnovers a game and overcome them with explosiveness. This team, I think turnovers are poison.



My biggest problem is that we continue to lack a short yardage package. We all know that we got screwed on the Friermuth TD reversal. That said, does it make ANY sense to stubbornly remain in the shotgun with one yard to go? Is it just pride that prevents us from having the QB under center on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1? It's burned us in the past and my fear is it will again in the future. Otherwise I thought he called a decent game.
 
Franklin did comment at his press conference that he felt the running package was too limited; there just wasn't enough variety of plays. So they have worked to address that and we saw some of that against Iowa -- like the counters, some pulling.

But I don't know about the risk of going under center. Are there shotgun teams at the college level that go under center in short yardage situations? Can it be done without an unacceptable level of turnovers? I'd love to see it. I'd love to see them run the I with Cain and Micah Parsons at fullback. The way Gonzalez/Menet/Miranda are run-blocking right now, I don't know how they wouldn't get 4-5 yards almost automatically.

I assume the issue is -- an offense can only learn so much stuff, and you don't want to do stuff that risks turnovers. This PSU team is shaping up to be a lunch bucket kind of team that is going to win, if it wins, with timely scoring and defense. Totally different identity from 1996. That team could have 3-4 turnovers a game and overcome them with explosiveness. This team, I think turnovers are poison.

It's problematical. Team has to have enough of a variety of plays from under-center formations so that it's not a dead giveaway to the defense. For that to happen, it has to be part of the total offense, not just for short yardage situations. See a lot of it on the NFL (duh!), not so much in college.
 
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Didn't a poster get lambasted last week for saying we need to line up, run Cain down their throat, and beat Iowa by playing old school Big 10 football? There was a barrage of posters stating how stupid that would be, how we need to use our athleticism and throw the ball all over the field to win. Funny how by playing old school football against a very tough defense and team won the game.
 
It doesn't have to be an either-or. The best teams can win football games in multiple ways. Being able to run a four minute offense and end that game without the Iowa offense getting another shot -- that was really big.

Didn't a poster get lambasted last week for saying we need to line up, run Cain down their throat, and beat Iowa by playing old school Big 10 football? There was a barrage of posters stating how stupid that would be, how we need to use our athleticism and throw the ball all over the field to win. Funny how by playing old school football against a very tough defense and team won the game.
 
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Agree we don’t have anybody like ARob, Godwin, Hamilton or Blacknall. As the season continues, I tend to think if we had anybody with that kind of talent on the roster ( even a freshman ), we would has seen some evidence of it by now.
On the positive side, we have two very solid smaller receivers and very good receiving options with the TE and RB’s.
 
We don't t have a ****ing screen play. At all. That says everything. It will be 3rd and 5, and opposing teams are watering at the mouth for the blitz. A reasonable OC makes teams pay for the over-confident blitzing. We haven't seen a good screen play since JF's been HC.
 
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Agree we don’t have anybody like ARob, Godwin, Hamilton or Blacknall. As the season continues, I tend to think if we had anybody with that kind of talent on the roster ( even a freshman ), we would has seen some evidence of it by now.
On the positive side, we have two very solid smaller receivers and very good receiving options with the TE and RB’s.

Disagree. Hamler is legit.
 
Disagree. Hamler is legit.
I did not say he wasn’t legit. He is an exceptional talent and Dotson is right behind him, although a bit different. But these guys aren’t the kind of WR’s who can routinely get 50:50 balls. They aren’t those kind of players because they aren’t big. Those kind of WR’s are not common, which is why the guys I mentioned are in the NFL.
 
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The playcalling is still far from inspired. I'll give Rahne last night. Playing it close to the vest in that environment made sense. It won't win in Columbus.

Agree. This team isn't ready for that game right now. Blackledge made a pretty interesting comment at the end of the broadcast -- said Penn State is really the only team in the B10 that can match up with Ohio State athletically this year.

They're young but the potential is there to be really good by the time they go to Columbus.
 
Disagree. Hamler is legit.

Oh he's legit, I don't think anybody's questioning that. But he's 5-9. He's not the kind of receiver Godwin or Blacknall or MRob were/are. He can't do what they could do -- he can do other things which is great. But PSU needs one and preferably two big tall guys who can play a vertical game.

Hamler is a special talent for sure -- anybody who outruns the Ohio State secondary.... and he had two or three plays last night just running through groups of Iowa linebackers and safeties like they weren't even there.... that was something. This is a good defense and they tackle well, so to have Hamler to be able to wiggle through 3 or 4 people is pretty incredible.
 
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It is interesting they mentioned screens about 3 weeks ago as something that was getting installed in the offense. They must not be ready to run them in games yet, or they didn't think Iowa's defense was the kind to be suckered by a screen. Michigan is much more aggressive so maybe this week is when they use them.

We don't t have a ****ing screen play. At all. That says everything. It will be 3rd and 5, and opposing teams are watering at the mouth for the blitz. A reasonable OC makes teams pay for the over-confident blitzing. We haven't seen a good screen play since JF's been HC.
 
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