Gerry DiNardo ......

[tboyer]

I have to disagree, PSU will have talent equal to OSU, and Michigan. In the next 2-3 years we will be equal. Actually, last year's and this year's recruiting classes between PSU and OSU are just about the same. Pretty good for Franklin in just two years. If he can put together a 10-2 year this year?
All three programs will be 3 deep with 4 star talent. I expect it to be as it was when PSU first entered the Big 10.
MSU and Wisc will be a notch below.

To me Franklin and Harbaugh are the difference. Yes, OSU has always been an NFL minor league, so be it. You still only get to play 22 guys

At face value (star ratings) Franklin has 1 1/2 classes at Ohio State's level. See if he can get to 5 classes of the kind Meyer brings in.

Even then, star ratings do not recruiting classes make. Some of the OSU players are underrated because they're academic risks -- but at Ohio State they will have no problem staying eligible because, well, at Ohio State staying eligible is no problem.

I'm thrilled with PSU's recruiting. Just with what's been recruited already it looks like PSU will have more athletic ability on the roster than they did under Paterno going all the way back to the late 90s.

I'm just saying, comparisons to Ohio State are way, way premature. PSU has hardly even begun to compete with Meyer. You'll know when Franklin is really starting to scare Meyer -- Urbie will suddenly have heart palpitations and resign to spend more time with his family. But he will fight back really hard before that happens.

 

[Mudge1026]

I always call them "Red Pitt". Different State, same hate.

If you areif you a

Other than DiNardo noting that PSU's talent is looking better (which is pretty obvious), the comment is pretty meaningless.

PSU will NEVER have the talent Ohio State has because Ohio State can offer prospects a place where they can train for the NFL, compete for championships, drive nice cars, eat in the best restaurants in town, and not have to do homework if they don't want to. For certain kinds of players, there is no competing with that.

PSU will have talent comparable to MSU and Wisky, maybe even slightly better the way Franklin is recruiting. But then coaching starts to come into play.

Will Franklin be able to coach at a level comparable to his recruiting? I don't think there's an obvious answer. But I do think we should be patient and give him time. Franklin works his butt off and is plenty smart and surrounds himself with smart people, so I think the coaching will be there. It certainly is on the defensive side.

But if PSU looks pretty bad on offense again this year, I think people should keep the faith and give Franklin a chance to fix it. He has never coached at this level and there could be a learning curve.

I don't know why people are even talking about Rutgers. It says something pretty pathetic about PSU fans that they can't stop talking about Rutgers and Pitt. Sure I respect those programs but over the long haul they are not a problem. If PSU is having to worry about Rutgers and Pitt we have fallen far indeed.

If you are consistently recruiting in the top 10 to 15 every year like I expect PSU to do then our talent will be comparable to OSU. Some here have no clue what PSU was as an "elite" recruiting school before 2000 when Joe got old and stopped trying in regards to recruiting.

 

[dawgduice]

At face value (star ratings) Franklin has 1 1/2 classes at Ohio State's level. See if he can get to 5 classes of the kind Meyer brings in.

Even then, star ratings do not recruiting classes make. Some of the OSU players are underrated because they're academic risks -- but at Ohio State they will have no problem staying eligible because, well, at Ohio State staying eligible is no problem.

I'm thrilled with PSU's recruiting. Just with what's been recruited already it looks like PSU will have more athletic ability on the roster than they did under Paterno going all the way back to the late 90s.

I'm just saying, comparisons to Ohio State are way, way premature. PSU has hardly even begun to compete with Meyer. You'll know when Franklin is really starting to scare Meyer -- Urbie will suddenly have heart palpitations and resign to spend more time with his family. But he will fight back really hard before that happens.

I totally agree comparing us to OSU is premature . Actually thinking that PSU, OSU and Michigan will all be equal again is premature. I just LIKE the direction we are moving in. The question for us: is Franklin the real deal? Can he use the top talent that he will have shortly to win games? I know OSU and Michigan will. Given their coaches records.

 

[tboyer]

I totally agree comparing us to OSU is premature . Actually thinking that PSU, OSU and Michigan will all be equal again is premature. I just LIKE the direction we are moving in. The question for us: is Franklin the real deal? Can he use the top talent that he will have shortly to win games? I know OSU and Michigan will. Given their coaches records.

Agree. I would just urge everybody to be patient. I really think there will be a learning curve. Right now PSU has a scheme on D, they have traditions, they have players who have worked in a system and know what they are doing.

They have nothing like that on the offensive side. They have potential, they have mostly very inexperienced athletes and they have no traditions. They are just off the harshest sanctions in NCAA history. The OL won't be one of the worst in college football, but it will still be semi-ugly and it might be ugly. It won't be what it will be in, say, 2017. I doubt Franklin even knows what his offensive philosophy is going to be until he sees what the guys can do. Last year they had no options at all. They couldn't run block, they couldn't pass block, their running backs had no speed.

This year it's better but it could still be pretty bad. Still, the schedule and the defense means they can win 8 games with a Paterno-esque offense. Just don't conclude that's all Franklin can do. The rebuilding of the O is a multi-year job.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

DiNardo is best known for dumping on PSU and making dire predictions of its failure. When these sorts of predictions fall from his cake hole like so much gravel from the back of a city paving truck, we all like to go nuts here and when he's ultimately proven again to be wrong, we gloat and revel in his idiocy.

I take nothing he says seriously and just to be consistent, I'm not taking anything positive he says seriously either. It's either a trick or he's off his meds. I would actually prefer he stick to his negative bashing and hate fest when it comes to Penn State. It makes me far less nervous.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Nothing that piece of excrement says has any effect on me whatsoever. Really an innocuous comment that means nothing at all in mid-July.

 

[NapaNit]

DiNardo is best known for dumping on PSU and making dire predictions of its failure. When these sorts of predictions fall from his cake hole like so much gravel from the back of a city paving truck, we all like to go nuts here and when he's ultimately proven again to be wrong, we gloat and revel in his idiocy.

I take nothing he says seriously and just to be consistent, I'm not taking anything positive he says seriously either. It's either a trick or he's off his meds. I would actually prefer he stick to his negative bashing and hate fest when it comes to Penn State. It makes me far less nervous.

SPOT ON , Victor. He's been an enemy to PSU for too long. He means nothing to me.

 

[Section118]

You guys are great. Trust me I'm not a Flood fan. Think he's a glorified High School coach who will never be a HC in D1 again. Won't get into politics but only reason he's there is because school has no money. Will take a few years to finally be on the same level as other B1G schools. We'll get there but for now it's going to be a long bumpy road. As far as Rutgers not being good for the B1G you are 100% wrong. Since expansion its been published by several outlets that this was the smartest move over any other P5 addition which included TAMU and Mizz to SEC, Lousivile to ACC, and even Nebraska. If you want proof look up the numbers on what RU did this year.

So yea back to my point your coach is a great recruiter. I'll leave it to November when you finally have multiple away games versus you hard schedule to rip his head off all by yourselves. 1/2 this board was calling for it after Maryland.

 

[dawgduice]

Not sure why this thread as moved to ANY discussion of Maryland or Rutgers. But, yes I agree both were good additions to the Big.
Neither will be big time factors for many many years. PSU, on the other had will have a good year this year and if Hack chooses to stay his senior year, well then it will be for a real shot at the Big 10 championship. After that, I believe PSU will be PSU
Rutgers and Maryland will win a game now and then.
Actually, I am far more concerned about Michigan.
Wow, OSU, Michigan and PSU will be really something in the next few years. Sorry, it just "is what it is".

 

[fairgambit]

Not sure why this thread as moved to ANY discussion of Maryland or Rutgers. But, yes I agree both were good additions to the Big.
Neither will be big time factors for many many years. PSU, on the other had will have a good year this year and if Hack chooses to stay his senior year, well then it will be for a real shot at the Big 10 championship. After that, I believe PSU will be PSU
Rutgers and Maryland will win a game now and then.
Actually, I am far more concerned about Michigan.
Wow, OSU, Michigan and PSU will be really something in the next few years. Sorry, it just "is what it is".

Yes, especially when one plays the other. Actually, Maryland will dominate the series. Maryland has the potential to be a decent team in the conference. Rutgers has no such chance. I have predicted, do predict, and will continue to predict, that Rutgers will be a bottom feeder. I will say that until Rutgers proves me wrong, which means I will say it for the rest of my life.

 

[michnittlion]

You guys are great. Trust me I'm not a Flood fan. Think he's a glorified High School coach who will never be a HC in D1 again. Won't get into politics but only reason he's there is because school has no money. Will take a few years to finally be on the same level as other B1G schools. We'll get there but for now it's going to be a long bumpy road. As far as Rutgers not being good for the B1G you are 100% wrong. Since expansion its been published by several outlets that this was the smartest move over any other P5 addition which included TAMU and Mizz to SEC, Lousivile to ACC, and even Nebraska. If you want proof look up the numbers on what RU did this year.

So yea back to my point your coach is a great recruiter. I'll leave it to November when you finally have multiple away games versus you hard schedule to rip his head off all by yourselves. 1/2 this board was calling for it after Maryland.

Let's get these "articles published by several outlets" correct ---- they said that Rutgers was the biggest winner among all of the various 18 or so schools that moved conferences in the post-2010 era.

Rutgers was a winner. Rutgers ascended from a middle-of-the-pack team in the non-descript American Athletic Conference, to a member of one of the two best athletic conferences in America.

Good for Rutgers. But Rutgers being a winner doesn't mean the B1G was necessarily a winner (not many people argue that).
.
As for the numbers: Rutgers finished dead last in the B1G in 44% of the team sports in which they competed in 2014-15. That's a remarkably large number.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Nah your coach is a terrible game day coach. Has never beaten a good team. He will be gone with 2-3 seasons and PSU football will be back where it belongs which is below Rutgers...

So, a century of tradition will end then. As Jim Morrison wrote "You can not petition the Lord with Prayer!"

 

[ellobo]

Going to take a bit of a different angle on this one...believe it or not it might be MSU that has the biggest influence on the future of the East...bear with me as I'm not saying they will be the best program but rather have the biggest influence on how things shake out especially for Maryland and RU.

For the last few years I've been waiting (part expecting, part hoping) for MSU to come falling back to earth and become "little brother" again. Yeah it hasn't happened and despite my homerism (for Michigan) I've come to terms with the real possibility that it probably won't as long as Dantonio is there. Some have pointed out that this is their best recruiting class they've had but act like it is an anomoly vs. an indication that they've finally broken through the glass ceiling where more recruits see them as more than just a good atlernative if "the big boys" don't come calling.

In the years that I've followed recruiting I have never seen a time when tOSU, Umich, ND and MSU were all recruiting well in the Midwest. Already there hasn't been enough talent in the area to support all 3 let alone a 4th high end recruiter. Add in the fact that Franklin, as a top notch recruiter, will not only make it harder for them to land PA kids but has shown to be capable of poaching a Midwest player or two, you now have 5 programs that will need to rely more (more than they have) on players outside their backyard as the more local prospects get divided among the schools.

That brings in NJ and Maryland. Both tOSU and Michigan have (in the past) had more of a hit and run strategy with those states as in cherry pick a player or two one year and maybe zero the next year. I think that is going to change and both schools will start looking deeper into the depth of the those two states...Michigan is already showing that this is the likely approach. ND has always had a strong presence in the East Coast Catholics and I don't think that will change except that kids who might have been on the bubble of an offer for them in the past might become takes because of increased competition. For PSU NJ has always been almost a suedo-home state for you guys with Maryland being kind to you as well. But you too might end up needing to go further into the depth of these two states to fill out your classes (still good players...the type of kids who would be at the top of a recruiting class for a RU but maybe not the gems of a PSU class). Which brings us back to Sparty...I'm not sure if they've ever done much in Maryland but they've dabled in NJ before. It was mostly under the radar kids but this year that even started to change as they have already landed a 4* from NJ.

So the new battle ground for B10 recruiting looks like it will be NJ and Maryland. While that is not some bold prediction (it was kind of expected when RU and UMD joined) the inclusion of MSU to the mix...pushing the other schools to rely on it more while getting some kids themselves...begs the question of how will RU and UMD compete? Well I guess they should hope that the optimism around one or two of PSU, Umich and MSU fades...

 

[michnittlion]

Going to take a bit of a different angle on this one...believe it or not it might be MSU that has the biggest influence on the future of the East...bear with me as I'm not saying they will be the best program but rather have the biggest influence on how things shake out especially for Maryland and RU.

For the last few years I've been waiting (part expecting, part hoping) for MSU to come falling back to earth and become "little brother" again. Yeah it hasn't happened and despite my homerism (for Michigan) I've come to terms with the real possibility that it probably won't as long as Dantonio is there. Some have pointed out that this is their best recruiting class they've had but act like it is an anomoly vs. an indication that they've finally broken through the glass ceiling where more recruits see them as more than just a good atlernative if "the big boys" don't come calling.

In the years that I've followed recruiting I have never seen a time when tOSU, Umich, ND and MSU were all recruiting well in the Midwest. Already there hasn't been enough talent in the area to support all 3 let alone a 4th high end recruiter. Add in the fact that Franklin, as a top notch recruiter, will not only make it harder for them to land PA kids but has shown to be capable of poaching a Midwest player or two, you now have 5 programs that will need to rely more (more than they have) on players outside their backyard as the more local prospects get divided among the schools.

That brings in NJ and Maryland. Both tOSU and Michigan have (in the past) had more of a hit and run strategy with those states as in cherry pick a player or two one year and maybe zero the next year. I think that is going to change and both schools will start looking deeper into the depth of the those two states...Michigan is already showing that this is the likely approach. ND has always had a strong presence in the East Coast Catholics and I don't think that will change except that kids who might have been on the bubble of an offer for them in the past might become takes because of increased competition. For PSU NJ has always been almost a suedo-home state for you guys with Maryland being kind to you as well. But you too might end up needing to go further into the depth of these two states to fill out your classes (still good players...the type of kids who would be at the top of a recruiting class for a RU but maybe not the gems of a PSU class). Which brings us back to Sparty...I'm not sure if they've ever done much in Maryland but they've dabled in NJ before. It was mostly under the radar kids but this year that even started to change as they have already landed a 4* from NJ.

So the new battle ground for B10 recruiting looks like it will be NJ and Maryland. While that is not some bold prediction (it was kind of expected when RU and UMD joined) the inclusion of MSU to the mix...pushing the other schools to rely on it more while getting some kids themselves...begs the question of how will RU and UMD compete? Well I guess they should hope that the optimism around one or two of PSU, Umich and MSU fades...

Does MSU really need to recruit that hard in Maryland and/or New Jersey? The 4* is great, but do they need a heavy-focus on the region?

I get that U-M and OSU are making a strong push into the region --- and that's a good move for them. (1) It's a place with a lot of good talent. And (2) it puts some pressure upon both Penn State (our home ground) and the native schools, Maryland & Rutgers.

I look at MSU's 2015 spring roster: 21 kids from Ohio, 3 from Jersey, 2 from Maryland. I think they'll be fine if they continue the current strategy (really recruiting Ohio, where there's quite a bit of talent even after OSU gets their pick of the litter, and generally staying away from the wars for the NJ/MD talent outside of plucking a kid here or there). No doubt their current strategy is working right now.

As for Rutgers --- they have a tough road to hoe. Recruiting is the life-blood of a program but I have a hard time seeing a scenario where they can have year-in, year-out classes competitive w/ OSU, U-M and PSU.

Tangential issue --- I don't think U-M can afford to ignore Ohio too much. Every good Ohio kid at Ann Arbor, after all, is a good Ohio kid not at a competitor. Michigan has a good 2016 class but 0 kids from Ohio: kind of stunning.

Penn State has all of 2 kids on the roster from Ohio. MUST do better there. WE did just get a 2017 QB recruit from one of the Cincinnati-area powerhouses.

 

[NewYC]

Nebraska has really fallen off since they played in their last NC game almost 15 years ago. These things go in cycles but their recruiting doesn't suggest they'll rise into the top 4 anytime soon. They have beaten PSU all 3 times they've played so far.

Riley is a really good coach. I think they'll get more out of their talent now and I expect them to be in the conference champ game a lot. They may not be as good as PSU OSU and Mich, but they will be very competitive.

 

[ellobo]

Does MSU really need to recruit that hard in Maryland and/or New Jersey? The 4* is great, but do they need a heavy-focus on the region?

I get that U-M and OSU are making a strong push into the region --- and that's a good move for them. (1) It's a place with a lot of good talent. And (2) it puts some pressure upon both Penn State (our home ground) and the native schools, Maryland & Rutgers.

I look at MSU's 2015 spring roster: 21 kids from Ohio, 3 from Jersey, 2 from Maryland. I think they'll be fine if they continue the current strategy (really recruiting Ohio, where there's quite a bit of talent even after OSU gets their pick of the litter, and generally staying away from the wars for the NJ/MD talent outside of plucking a kid here or there). No doubt their current strategy is working right now.

As for Rutgers --- they have a tough road to hoe. Recruiting is the life-blood of a program but I have a hard time seeing a scenario where they can have year-in, year-out classes competitive w/ OSU, U-M and PSU.

Tangential issue --- I don't think U-M can afford to ignore Ohio too much. Every good Ohio kid at Ann Arbor, after all, is a good Ohio kid not at a competitor. Michigan has a good 2016 class but 0 kids from Ohio: kind of stunning.

Penn State has all of 2 kids on the roster from Ohio. MUST do better there. WE did just get a 2017 QB recruit from one of the Cincinnati-area powerhouses.

My point on MSU was less about them having a direct effect on NJ but rather the overall effect they have on the other schools needing to get more kids from outside their backyards. On each individual school the effect might seem minimal but as an aggregate could end up being significant. Let's say MSU gets 3-4 local kids a year that would have gone to Michigan in the past, say 2-3 that would have gone to ND, 1-2 that would have gone to tOSU and the random 1 kid that PSU seems to pull every so often. On the high end those schools need to find 10 players elsewhere.

So 10 players doesn't sound like a lot now does it especially considering that not all would need to come from NJ and MD. But here is where it starts to become interesting. I'm not talking about MSU all of a sudden stealling the jewls of those other school's classes (maybe a couple/few in state that would have gone to Michigan or out of state) but rather the type of kids who are a part of the middle. I wouldn't expect those schools to just lower their standards and take lesser local kids even if it's just a couple (each) a year.

So what happens when schools like tOSU and Michigan start looking at states like NJ and MD as more than a place to do a hit and run and try to pick off only cream of the crop kids...what if they start scouring the area for more heart of the class (the middle) type kids? Well, it likely becomes more of an exponential than linear equation on the number of kids they unconver because they are spending more time there...it's not just the low 4* they might be more interested in but they might start uncovering some 3* types that they never would have never even known about (but the local schools sure do) prior because they never spent that much time there (maybe even starting to replace a few local kids that they might have taken to fill out a class in the past)...again kids they wouldn't have even thought of looking at if they weren't pushed to spend more time there. This also could have an effect on schools that are already mining those states (such as PSU) who might have to go deeper into the depth as well.

So all of a sudden 10 more kids (a year) leaving NJ and MD seems like quite a reasonable number even if MSU is only pulling say 1 or 2 of those kids out themselves. While 10 doesn't seem like that much especially if you are only talking about say 5 a year from each state...well multiply that by 4.5 (the .5 is to account for 5th years) and that is 45 kids...22.5 each that might have ended up at RU or MD...22.5 is pretty much a starting lineup.

Just food for thought.

 

[Blueblood4eva]

Rutgers is dead meat. They joined the B1G to take the money, period. Not much of that money will find it's way to athletics either. They had a hard time recruiting home state kids before and it just got worse, with Meyer, Harbaugh, D'Antonio and Franklin setting up shop. Those four can offer these top local athletes the opportunity to come home to Jersey every holiday or semester break, and summer with their chests puffed out, having pounded Rutgers. Their only hope is far out of State where kids may not view Rutgers as 13th grade, like the Jersey kids do. Things might change with a new administration but it will be difficult, because the State politicians just change names, not motive. Money talks, louder than championships.

 

[michnittlion]

My point on MSU was less about them having a direct effect on NJ but rather the overall effect they have on the other schools needing to get more kids from outside their backyards. On each individual school the effect might seem minimal but as an aggregate could end up being significant. Let's say MSU gets 3-4 local kids a year that would have gone to Michigan in the past, say 2-3 that would have gone to ND, 1-2 that would have gone to tOSU and the random 1 kid that PSU seems to pull every so often. On the high end those schools need to find 10 players elsewhere.

So 10 players doesn't sound like a lot now does it especially considering that not all would need to come from NJ and MD. But here is where it starts to become interesting. I'm not talking about MSU all of a sudden stealling the jewls of those other school's classes (maybe a couple/few in state that would have gone to Michigan or out of state) but rather the type of kids who are a part of the middle. I wouldn't expect those schools to just lower their standards and take lesser local kids even if it's just a couple (each) a year.

So what happens when schools like tOSU and Michigan start looking at states like NJ and MD as more than a place to do a hit and run and try to pick off only cream of the crop kids...what if they start scouring the area for more heart of the class (the middle) type kids? Well, it likely becomes more of an exponential than linear equation on the number of kids they unconver because they are spending more time there...it's not just the low 4* they might be more interested in but they might start uncovering some 3* types that they never would have never even known about (but the local schools sure do) prior because they never spent that much time there (maybe even starting to replace a few local kids that they might have taken to fill out a class in the past)...again kids they wouldn't have even thought of looking at if they weren't pushed to spend more time there. This also could have an effect on schools that are already mining those states (such as PSU) who might have to go deeper into the depth as well.

So all of a sudden 10 more kids (a year) leaving NJ and MD seems like quite a reasonable number even if MSU is only pulling say 1 or 2 of those kids out themselves. While 10 doesn't seem like that much especially if you are only talking about say 5 a year from each state...well multiply that by 4.5 (the .5 is to account for 5th years) and that is 45 kids...22.5 each that might have ended up at RU or MD...22.5 is pretty much a starting lineup.

Just food for thought.

Ah gotcha ---- yeah, I think the entry of Maryland & Rutgers would have always pushed U-M and OSU to recruit Maryland & Jersey harder than they historically have ---- but MSU's recruiting success of late could definitely amplify that dynamic.

Rutgers is in a tough tough spot. More top-rate schools sniffing around their own backyard, plus there are some structural barriers to expanding their recruiting ground east (Atlantic Ocean), west (PSU is the top-dog in eastern PA), or north (New England has little football talent). I guess it has to be south, but that's highly competitive too.

Maryland --- I looked up their roster just now and I was stunned and one thing I saw: they have only 6 kids from the Commonwealth of Virginia. This despite them playing in the ACC for much of recent history! (for reference: PSU has 7, OSU 4, MSU and U-M 2). Maryland probably should have built better roots to their south during their ACC days, because they have the same difficulties in expanding east, west and north.

I do expect Penn State to look west in recruiting more often in the future. It's in our best interests for several reasons.

 

[dawgduice]

My point on MSU was less about them having a direct effect on NJ but rather the overall effect they have on the other schools needing to get more kids from outside their backyards. On each individual school the effect might seem minimal but as an aggregate could end up being significant. Let's say MSU gets 3-4 local kids a year that would have gone to Michigan in the past, say 2-3 that would have gone to ND, 1-2 that would have gone to tOSU and the random 1 kid that PSU seems to pull every so often. On the high end those schools need to find 10 players elsewhere.

So 10 players doesn't sound like a lot now does it especially considering that not all would need to come from NJ and MD. But here is where it starts to become interesting. I'm not talking about MSU all of a sudden stealling the jewls of those other school's classes (maybe a couple/few in state that would have gone to Michigan or out of state) but rather the type of kids who are a part of the middle. I wouldn't expect those schools to just lower their standards and take lesser local kids even if it's just a couple (each) a year.

So what happens when schools like tOSU and Michigan start looking at states like NJ and MD as more than a place to do a hit and run and try to pick off only cream of the crop kids...what if they start scouring the area for more heart of the class (the middle) type kids? Well, it likely becomes more of an exponential than linear equation on the number of kids they unconver because they are spending more time there...it's not just the low 4* they might be more interested in but they might start uncovering some 3* types that they never would have never even known about (but the local schools sure do) prior because they never spent that much time there (maybe even starting to replace a few local kids that they might have taken to fill out a class in the past)...again kids they wouldn't have even thought of looking at if they weren't pushed to spend more time there. This also could have an effect on schools that are already mining those states (such as PSU) who might have to go deeper into the depth as well.

So all of a sudden 10 more kids (a year) leaving NJ and MD seems like quite a reasonable number even if MSU is only pulling say 1 or 2 of those kids out themselves. While 10 doesn't seem like that much especially if you are only talking about say 5 a year from each state...well multiply that by 4.5 (the .5 is to account for 5th years) and that is 45 kids...22.5 each that might have ended up at RU or MD...22.5 is pretty much a starting lineup.

Just food for thought.

I just do not see MSU being a long term player. I see them more on the level of Wisky (they were where MSU is now for a few years) and Iowa (same story, had a few good years) in long term recruiting. MSU historically has done well "when it wins". when they have an off year or two or three their recruiting suffers. I still believe in the next few years (2-5) OSU, Michigan and PSU will be the BIG 3. Others will win now and then. Keep in mind the history behind the Big 3, plus they are also "national" stories. MSU is NOT.

Clearly a ton of speculation, and years away, but it "appears" as though this is happening

 

[kgilbert78]

What good teams has the Rutgers coach defeated? I get the back and forth between college fans but Rutgers hasn't been relevant, well, ever.

At least not since 1869.

 

[ellobo]

I just do not see MSU being a long term player. I see them more on the level of Wisky (they were where MSU is now for a few years) and Iowa (same story, had a few good years) in long term recruiting. MSU historically has done well "when it wins". when they have an off year or two or three their recruiting suffers. I still believe in the next few years (2-5) OSU, Michigan and PSU will be the BIG 3. Others will win now and then. Keep in mind the history behind the Big 3, plus they are also "national" stories. MSU is NOT.

Clearly a ton of speculation, and years away, but it "appears" as though this is happening

What you are saying is what I'm hoping for. However, what you are saying is what I believed until recently. I've been waiting for sparty to come crashing down to earth for a few years and it hasn't happened...it looks like they've actually gotten better. I do think that a return to prominense by both our programs will take some of that shine off them and that in many years they will be the 4th best team in the East. But I just don't see fading back into being a borderline bowl team and in some years will compete for the conference title (as long as Dantonio is there...can't wait for him to retire)...I hope I am wrong and you are right.

 

[psu00]

At least not since 1869.

Yeah, well as much as they brag about the first college game in 1869- as Steve Harvey used to say......'here is the rest of the story'.

In 1869 Rutgers did defeat Princeton in that first 'game' by a score of 6-4. However, it was more soccer style (6 goals to 4) with a round ball, 120 yard by 75 yard field and 25 players per team on the field at a time. It wasn't the football we know today.

What they also fail to mention is that they played that same Princeton team again a week later and lost 8-0. That was their entire season. That magical, crowning year ended at 1-1 (with Princeton also ending at 1-1).

 

[olelion]

MSU fallingboff?OTE="dawgduice, post: 299883, University to elevated itselfember: 6028"]just listened to some comments he made regarding PSU. He felt the OSU, Michigan, PSU and MSU will dominate the Big 10 for the foreseeable future. I agree with him for the most part, assuming the coaches stay. I do "think" that MSU will fall off and maybe Nebraska will be the fourth team [/QUOTE]

MSU falling off? How about Penn State having to elevate itself just to be in the conversation. Michigan Stae will be around for a while

 

[Blueblood4eva]

Yeah, well as much as they brag about the first college game in 1869- as Steve Harvey used to say......'here is the rest of the story'.

In 1869 Rutgers did defeat Princeton in that first 'game' by a score of 6-4. However, it was more soccer style (6 goals to 4) with a round ball, 120 yard by 75 yard field and 25 players per team on the field at a time. It wasn't the football we know today.

What they also fail to mention is that they played that same Princeton team again a week later and lost 8-0. That was their entire season. That magical, crowning year ended at 1-1 (with Princeton also ending at 1-1).

Wait... they claim to have won a National Championship in 1976. Was that 13th grade intramural's? Maybe 14th grade? Is that why their classy fans were touting a "dream team 2016"? Sort of a 40 year anniversary thing? The Red Pitt?

 

[psu00]

Wait... they claim to have won a National Championship in 1976. Was that 13th grade intramural's? Maybe 14th grade? Is that why their classy fans were touting a "dream team 2016"? Sort of a 40 year anniversary thing? The Red Pitt?

Well in 1976 blue Pitt won the championship IIRC. Red Pitt did go 11-0 but let's look at their schedule.

They played Navy (4-7), Bucknell (4-5), Princeton (2-7), Cornell (2-7), Connecticut (2-9), Lehigh (6-5), Columbia (3-6), Massachusetts (5-5), Louisville (5-6), Tulane (2-9), and Colgate (8-2). Combined record of opponents- 43-68.

The end of year polls both ranked them #17 at 11-0. They were not invited to a bowl. IIRC only 3 of their opponents were even D1 at the time. Details, details........

 

[Bygsky]

You guys are great. Trust me I'm not a Flood fan. Think he's a glorified High School coach who will never be a HC in D1 again. Won't get into politics but only reason he's there is because school has no money. Will take a few years to finally be on the same level as other B1G schools. We'll get there but for now it's going to be a long bumpy road. As far as Rutgers not being good for the B1G you are 100% wrong. Since expansion its been published by several outlets that this was the smartest move over any other P5 addition which included TAMU and Mizz to SEC, Lousivile to ACC, and even Nebraska. If you want proof look up the numbers on what RU did this year.

So yea back to my point your coach is a great recruiter. I'll leave it to November when you finally have multiple away games versus you hard schedule to rip his head off all by yourselves. 1/2 this board was calling for it after Maryland.

Can you please provide the links from the "several outlets." Just asking, learned long ago to question vague references. I would love to read and vet the sources that are saying that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[pandaczar12]

The landscape rarely changes permanently in college football. Pitt will never be an elite program, and MSU will stop overachieving. It's just the way things work.

Yeah, well as much as they brag about the first college game in 1869- as Steve Harvey used to say......'here is the rest of the story'.

In 1869 Rutgers did defeat Princeton in that first 'game' by a score of 6-4. However, it was more soccer style (6 goals to 4) with a round ball, 120 yard by 75 yard field and 25 players per team on the field at a time. It wasn't the football we know today.

What they also fail to mention is that they played that same Princeton team again a week later and lost 8-0. That was their entire season. That magical, crowning year ended at 1-1 (with Princeton also ending at 1-1).

So Princeton was the National Champion that year? They scored more points on the season. I'm guessing that Princeton let them barely win the first game, so they could mess with them and crush them in the second game. Much like last year, PSU was just F-ing with Rutgers to make their fans think they were going to win, and crushed their spirits at the end. Even back in 1869, people liked to f*ck with Rutgers.

Any idea when the first modern college football game was played?

Steve Harvey? Come on man!
Name a college with the biggest Douche Bag fans... you said "Rutgers". Survey says... 49%, Pitt was the #1 answer with 51%"

 

[BobPSU92]

One pitt
Two pitt
Red pitt
Blue pitt

 

[pandaczar12]

One pitt
Two pitt
Red pitt
Blue pitt

Love it!

 

[LuvDaLions]

In their entire history they have never played in a major bowl game, let alone won one. They have never finished in the top 10. Considering their location and resources, they have done less with more than any program, at any level, in the history of college football.

That's not entirely true, in 1869, they tied for the best record in college football....

 

[rutgersal]

If this were the 90's, Rutgers would be screwed, but Florida is Rutgers equalizer, and we are stronger there than most B1G schools. Outside of OSU and MSU, Rutgers has the best talent in the B1G East. Also, roughly half of the jersey elite are going to be busts, so they aren't always as good as expected. I don't know why PSU fans are puffing their chests, because without 5ints, Rutgers would have beaten PSU, by at least 21, thx to better talent and depth. We beat Maryland and Michigan, something PSU was unable to do. The B1G East is going to be one tough division, as we will likely beat each other up. Don't worry about Rutgers.

 

[LuvDaLions]

If this were the 90's, Rutgers would be screwed, but Florida is Rutgers equalizer, and we are stronger there than most B1G schools. Outside of OSU and MSU, Rutgers has the best talent in the B1G East. Also, roughly half of the jersey elite are going to be busts, so they aren't always as good as expected. I don't know why PSU fans are puffing their chests, because without 5ints, Rutgers would have beaten PSU, by at least 21, thx to better talent and depth. We beat Maryland and Michigan, something PSU was unable to do. The B1G East is going to be one tough division, as we will likely beat each other up. Don't worry about Rutgers.

rutgersal, we love your optimism, but don't you give the PSU defense any credit for getting those 5 interseptions? Maybe we won because we had better players on defense (we did finish 2nd in the NCAA in total defense last year).

 

[BobPSU92]

If this were the 90's, Rutgers would be screwed, but Florida is Rutgers equalizer, and we are stronger there than most B1G schools. Outside of OSU and MSU, Rutgers has the best talent in the B1G East. Also, roughly half of the jersey elite are going to be busts, so they aren't always as good as expected. I don't know why PSU fans are puffing their chests, because without 5ints, Rutgers would have beaten PSU, by at least 21, thx to better talent and depth. We beat Maryland and Michigan, something PSU was unable to do. The B1G East is going to be one tough division, as we will likely beat each other up. Don't worry about Rutgers.

There's obviously no reason for us to be worried about rutgers. Never has been, never will be.

Without five interceptions, Penn State doesn't beat ru. Well, guess what? ru threw five interceptions. I'm no football guru, but I've learned that turnovers tend to be a key factor in determining which team wins and which one loses. You also make it sound like Penn State's defense gets none of the credit for those interceptions. Applying your "logic", Miami really won the national championship in 1987 because they only lost because Testaverde threw those interceptions.

 

[rutgersal]

rutgersal, we love your optimism, but don't you give the PSU defense any credit for getting those 5 interseptions? Maybe we won because we had better players on defense (we did finish 2nd in the NCAA in total defense last year).

Your pass rush deserves the most credit, but since you lost your two defensive ends, it's difficult for me to see how you maintain its effectiveness. I think we can single block your ends, since they're new starters, and give much attention to Zettel. Our running game improved much from the beginning of last season till it's end, and I'm counting on that improvement to carry into '15.

 

[pandaczar12]

If this were the 90's, Rutgers would be screwed, but Florida is Rutgers equalizer, and we are stronger there than most B1G schools. Outside of OSU and MSU, Rutgers has the best talent in the B1G East. Also, roughly half of the jersey elite are going to be busts, so they aren't always as good as expected. I don't know why PSU fans are puffing their chests, because without 5ints, Rutgers would have beaten PSU, by at least 21, thx to better talent and depth. We beat Maryland and Michigan, something PSU was unable to do. The B1G East is going to be one tough division, as we will likely beat each other up. Don't worry about Rutgers.

Don't put too much stock in to the fact that Rutgers beat Maryland and Michigan. PSU had them both beat and blew it at the end. We're talking, get one more first down and PSU wins, those games were that close. PSU also technically beat OSU, Rutgers lost 56-17 to them.

 

[CappyToCJF]

Nah your coach is a terrible game day coach. Has never beaten a good team. He will be gone with 2-3 seasons and PSU football will be back where it belongs which is below Rutgers

"Back" ??
When was that?

 

[rutgersal]

Don't put too much stock in to the fact that Rutgers beat Maryland and Michigan. PSU had them both beat and blew it at the end. We're talking, get one more first down and PSU wins, those games were that close. PSU also technically beat OSU, Rutgers lost 56-17 to them.

Rutgers had PSU beat and blew it at the end. It's part of the game.

 

[pandaczar12]

Rutgers had PSU beat and blew it at the end. It's part of the game.

PSU was just messing with Rutgers the entire time.

 

[fairgambit]

That's not entirely true, in 1869, they tied for the best record in college football....

True, but they also tied for the worst and not much has changed since then.