Gruden is done

[NoBareFeet]

Well he still hasn't apologized, so theres that.

You hate facts.

"I have resigned as Head Coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. I love the Raiders and do not want to be a distraction. Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff, and fans of Raider Nation. I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt anyone." – Jon Gruden

 

[ram2020]

Well he still hasn't apologized, so theres that.

Thats a big problem....he needs to

 

[PSUHarry33]

No. Far more likely is that Goodell saw to it.

The NFL was doing the investigation. Over the course of the investigation, they found emails with Gruden calling Goodell a f a g g o t and a pussy. Then (I cannot prove this, but think this is likely) Goodell basically proves Gruden's point, in that Goodell sees to it that these emails get leaked and the media gladly takes care of the rest.

Also, Goodell takes care of the owners, so if there were other emails involving owners those weren't going to leak.

 

[demlion]

No. Far more likely is that Goodell saw to it.

The NFL was doing the investigation. Over the course of the investigation, they found emails with Gruden calling Goodell a f a g g o t and a pussy. Then (I cannot prove this, but think this is likely) Goodell basically proves Gruden's point, in that Goodell sees to it that these emails get leaked and the media gladly takes care of the rest.

Nice theory. Proof?

 

[PSUHarry33]

Thats a big problem....he needs to

Perhaps when the dust settles, he will get something out a little more well thought out.

 

[demlion]

Perhaps, I mean who give an F about Bruce Allen.

Before this I did not even know who he was.

 

[ram2020]

He has every right to comment about it, especially since so many people in this discussion are just like Gruden--pretending not to understand how it could possible for such a comment to be objectionable. I am well aware of my inherent biases, and it is a mark of a decent human being that you not blather them in writing to others.

That's all well and good, but go find another poster to gin up. I never defended his comment, never was confused by how it was objectionable, and never said anything in support of him. Again, he should be fired...he should apologize. I also never said "everyone is a victim'" or referenced "cancel culture" like others.

Perhaps when the dust settles, he will get something out a little more well thought out.

That would be appropriate.

 

[demlion]

You hate facts.

"I have resigned as Head Coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. I love the Raiders and do not want to be a distraction. Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff, and fans of Raider Nation. I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt anyone." – Jon Gruden

So your idea of an apology is a statement where you deny the clear meaning of what you said in writing, claim you don't have a racist bone in your body, then say you are sorry and never intended to hurt anyone? Well, that certainly explains a lot.

Where is "what I said was terribly stupid?" Where is "I am ashamed that people know I said this, especially children?" Where is, "People reading this have every right to be angry that I would say such a thing?" Where is, "I clearly have work to do so that in the future I never cause anyone this kind of pain again?"

Jesus, pal.

 

[nitanee123]

Nice theory. Proof?

Well he said it was a theory and "I cannot prove this".

But is such a scenario that unfathomable?

 

[NoBareFeet]

Where is "what I said was terribly stupid?" Where is "I am ashamed that people know I said this, especially children?" Where is, "People reading this have every right to be angry that I would say such a thing?" Where is, "I clearly have work to do so that in the future I never cause anyone this kind of pain again?"

Hahaha, well played. For a while there I thought all of your replies were serious. Funny stuff.

 

[demlion]

Well he said it was a theory and "I cannot prove this".

But is such a scenario that unfathomable?

He also countered the other poster's suppositions with, "No. Far more likely is that Goodell saw to it." Sounds pretty strong for someone who is just guessing.

 

[LaJollaLion]

Wait so the guy making 10 million a year and the face of a pro franchise is now the victim? Then people justify it because they and their friends are morons in private. Awesome.

 

[PSUHarry33]

So your idea of an apology is a statement where you deny the clear meaning of what you said in writing, claim you don't have a racist bone in your body, then say you are sorry and never intended to hurt anyone? Well, that certainly explains a lot.

Where is "what I said was terribly stupid?" Where is "I am ashamed that people know I said this, especially children?" Where is, "People reading this have every right to be angry that I would say such a thing?" Where is, "I clearly have work to do so that in the future I never cause anyone this kind of pain again?"

Jesus, pal.

He's not sorry for what he said, he said he was sorry he may have hurt someone. He never said what he said was wrong. I'm not really sure he thinks what he said in those emails was wrong.

People who apologize for the possible intent of their actions instead of their actions do not really apologize for their actions.

 

[PSUHarry33]

Before this I did not even know who he was.

Yeah, makes sense. I've lived in the DC Metro area for 35 years so that's the only way I knew.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

OK, so now we know "their 'music' " is not really music at all. Thanks for that.

BTW, who are "they?"

Ahhhhh……...”YOUNG PEOPLE” ????? Can’t you freakin READ????? You conveniently cut off the rest of my quote. Is that what you have to do in your court room when you try to invent racism????

Old people like me used to say the same things about Elvis Presley and Rock and Roll when I was young. So what?? That’s why I said we kid about it. Do you think old Black guys like that sh!t?????

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Imagine your life if you were not a hypocrit

The worst part is the hypocrisy

”Billy you are eleven now, sit down and I’ll tell you all the evil shit I did.”

 

[demlion]

He's not sorry for what he said, he said he was sorry he may have hurt someone. He never said what he said was wrong. I'm not really sure he thinks what he said in those emails was wrong.

People who apologize for the possible intent of their actions instead of their actions do not really apologize for their actions.

The purpose of an apology is to rebuild the trust relationship that existed between you and the person to whom you are apologizing. It is a little more involved than what you say to the waitress when you knock over your beer glass and get the tablecloth wet.

 

[lj4heisman1]

Right, Bigots and racists.

that is simply not true and you know it.

 

[LafayetteBear]

It's inarguable that the term "racist" gets tossed around quite freely, and often without much thought.

But in this case, Jon Gruden outdid himself. My initial reaction to this whole fiasco was to guffaw. The poor sap began very well, commenting on the size of a black dude's lips ("the size of michellins [sic]"), and riffing on his first name ("Dumboris"). Gotta give him props for that.

But Gruden didn't stop there. Oh, no. He went on, in an apparently large number of posts sent over a period of years, to:

1. Lambast gays ("They're drafting queers!" "Goodell's a fa$$ott!");
2. Offer up various and sundry misogynist comments;
3. Advocate for the firing of NFL players (e.g., Eric Reid) who knelt during the playing of the National Anthem;
4. Mock NFL players' efforts to promote racial equity and criminal justice reform (never mind that a significant percentage of NFL players are black);
5. Mock the NFL's efforts to reduce concussions ("Goodell needs to hide in his concussion protocol tent.")

You gotta give Gruden credit. He doesn't half-ass it. He went nearly the full distance. He only fell short in merely criticizing Obama and Biden when he could have completed his personal trifecta by praising someone like Hitler or Goebbels.

But America is the land of second chances. (Just ask Marv Albert.) It would not surprise me to see Chucky back on TV in the not too distant future. Perhaps more of the FFCA (Fired Football Coaches Association) stuff with aspiring pro quarterbacks?

 

[The Spin Meister]

Colin got cancelled by being the face of a Nike Campaign? As I said Gruden got what he deserved but the two situations aren't exactly the same.

I wasn’t the one saying Kap got cancelled. But merely responded to such a ridiculous statement.

 

[Jerry]

And this affects you how? It's about time slobs that throw around racist and homophobic slurs get penalized. I grew up in a working class town, grandson of a coal miner. I'm not impressed by the defense of sexist, racist behavior. Gruden has embarrassed himself and his 'company' and btw it's not about 'toughness' or any other macho bs -- who the hell wants to play for a guy that belittles people that are different than him?

Hopefully you haven't read my comments as a defense of "sexist, racist behavior." If so, please quote the relevant lines to that effect from either of my posts.

The issue is who gets to define "sexist, racist behavior" and by what criteria. Does inflicting violence on women meet the threshold? Because there are NFL players who've done that and are still getting paid by their teams.

But Gruden gets the ax for a handful of private remarks 10 years ago. In what world does such a double standard make any sense?

Also, please don't play the working-class card on me. I come from that milieu. Grew up in such a place 60 years ago...a town of 2,500 people with eight Christian churches.

Decades later, the values learned there are desperately needed in a country sinking beneath the waves of cynicism, anger, and doubt. The cancellation of Jon Gruden won't solve anything.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Ahhhhh……...”YOUNG PEOPLE” ????? Can’t you freakin READ????? You conveniently cut off the rest of my quote. Is that what you have to do in your court room when you try to invent racism????

Old people like me used to say the same things about Elvis Presley and Rock and Roll when I was young. So what?? That’s why I said we kid about it. Do you think old Black guys like that sh!t?????

OK, here's the full paragraph that you posted:

You guys have made it OK to brag about shooting cops and saying the N word over and over again in their “music”. That’s why they do it. Apparently, that’s what young people listen to in today’s world.

So your post was about "young people" in general? Black, white, yellow and brown young people? How many white young people do you see running around "saying the N word over and over again in their 'music?' " In my experience, it is almost exclusively black folks using the N word in their music. Eminem, Macklemore, Machine Gun Kelly, and Post Malone are all white, but they are in a very small minority when compared to the number of black rappers. And they are (quite understandably) somewhat sparing in their use of the N word.

Whites may well use the N word in private conversation (I have no doubt they DO in your circle of friends), but that is something entirely different. Color me skeptical that you were referring to anything other than black young people.

 

[Nitt1300]

some people here defending the indefensible- what a non surprise

 

[Obliviax]

some people here defending the indefensible- what a non surprise

Oddly I find myself wanting to defend the guy. He’s always been fairly entertaining and a pretty decent football coach. But at the end of the day in all of my years I’ve never written an email anywhere close to what she’s written. Even in my worst days of anger so I would never go to that far. So why should I defend him? So I am not. I suspect the man has anger problems. And I suspect that if you knew his wife or wives there would be some complaints of anger. But that’s fully speculation on my part. I just have no idea why you would put into writing those kinds of feelings unless you were so blinded by anger that you could not think straight

 

[okinburg1]

Oddly I find myself wanting to defend the guy. He’s always been fairly entertaining and a pretty decent football coach. But at the end of the day in all of my years I’ve never written an email anywhere close to what she’s written. Even in my worst days of anger so I would never go to that far. So why should I defend him? So I am not. I suspect the man has anger problems. And I suspect that if you knew his wife or wives there would be some complaints of anger. But that’s fully speculation on my part. I just have no idea why you would put into writing those kinds of feelings unless you were so blinded by anger that you could not think straight

Anger or stupidity. I'm leaning on more of the latter with some of the former mixed in

 

[Midnighter2]

Oddly I find myself wanting to defend the guy. He’s always been fairly entertaining and a pretty decent football coach. But at the end of the day in all of my years I’ve never written an email anywhere close to what she’s written. Even in my worst days of anger so I would never go to that far. So why should I defend him? So I am not. I suspect the man has anger problems. And I suspect that if you knew his wife or wives there would be some complaints of anger. But that’s fully speculation on my part. I just have no idea why you would put into writing those kinds of feelings unless you were so blinded by anger that you could not think straight

The other component here is wealth/entitlement. Maybe not blinded by anger as so cocksure he’s above any reprimand because he’s an NFL football coach some idiot owner paid a hundred million dollars to hire.

 

[Nitt1300]

Oddly I find myself wanting to defend the guy. He’s always been fairly entertaining and a pretty decent football coach. But at the end of the day in all of my years I’ve never written an email anywhere close to what she’s written. Even in my worst days of anger so I would never go to that far. So why should I defend him? So I am not. I suspect the man has anger problems. And I suspect that if you knew his wife or wives there would be some complaints of anger. But that’s fully speculation on my part. I just have no idea why you would put into writing those kinds of feelings unless you were so blinded by anger that you could not think straight

I also always used to like the guy- used to being the operative term

 

[The Spin Meister]

The other component here is wealth/entitlement. Maybe not blinded by anger as so cocksure he’s above any reprimand because he’s an NFL football coach some idiot owner paid a hundred million dollars to hire.

Yeah, closer to my take. He is arrogant and conceited with a huge sense of self worth. He also talks like he is one of the cool guys with all the cool slang. So he thought he was above all that sensitivity crap.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Oh how the self righteous preen and strut.

Have you ever made a joke about someone’s appearance?

Have you ever taken something that someone else needed?

Have you ever denied a bum the change he asked you to give?

Have you ever called someone a bum?

Have you laughed at a crude joke?

Have you made rude comments about a woman’s appearance?

Have you ever enjoyed the harm done to others?

Have you ever slowed down to look at an auto accident?

How about laughing at someone taking a fall?

How about judging someone by their appearance?

Did you ever laugh at a priest and altar boy joke?

Did you ever laugh at a holocaust joke?

Did you ever question someone’s sexuality?

Did you ever say, “Some of my best friends are ....”

Ever laugh at a racial stereotype joke?

Did you ever toss a prostitute off a bridge?

Well, I have done all those things, except the last one. Still, the day is young, so who knows?

So you perfect types can toss your stones.

As for me I’m old enough to accept we are all hypocrits to some extent and what we keep private is quite different from what we engage in publicly.

 

[LaJollaLion]

Hopefully you haven't read my comments as a defense of "sexist, racist behavior." If so, please quote the relevant lines to that effect from either of my posts.

The issue is who gets to define "sexist, racist behavior" and by what criteria. Does inflicting violence on women meet the threshold? Because there are NFL players who've done that and are still getting paid by their teams.

But Gruden gets the ax for a handful of private remarks 10 years ago. In what world does such a double standard make any sense?

Also, please don't play the working-class card on me. I come from that milieu. Grew up in such a place 60 years ago...a town of 2,500 people with eight Christian churches.

Decades later, the values learned there are desperately needed in a country sinking beneath the waves of cynicism, anger, and doubt. The cancellation of Jon Gruden won't solve anything.

As the coach you are held to higher standards....just like the Captain of a ship is. It's not always fair at the end of the day. Had he said that 30 years go, it never sees the light of day. He said it a decade ago and it was still wrong. Worthy of losing his job...maybe, but had he won a Super Bowl last year....he would be coach right now.

 

[BBrown]

The other component here is wealth/entitlement. Maybe not blinded by anger as so cocksure he’s above any reprimand because he’s an NFL football coach some idiot owner paid a hundred million dollars to hire.

Would any of this been happening while his brother was the coach with Washington?
I wonder what the rest of the 600,000 emails they took said? I doubt this is out of the norm.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Racist emails found by org and fired tonight. Career over.

In the old system, career over. But in this one he will lay low for a year or two. Travel, enjoy life. Maybe get work behind the scenes as a talent analyst or something.
But with all the modern technology he will find an outlet. Perhaps a YouTube channel or something similar. Maybe a pick em gambling site telling people how to bet. He has a great football mind and people will listen when he talks.

 

[Obliviax]

The buccaneers just announced they are removing him from their ‘ring of honor’

 

[Erial_Lion]

In the old system, career over. But in this one he will lay low for a year or two. Travel, enjoy life. Maybe get work behind the scenes as a talent analyst or something.
But with all the modern technology he will find an outlet. Perhaps a YouTube channel or something similar. Maybe a pick em gambling site telling people how to bet. He has a great football mind and people will listen when he talks.

Hugh Freeze will move on from Liberty at some point and they’ll need a coach…

 

[Erial_Lion]

Oh how the self righteous preen and strut.

Have you ever made a joke about someone’s appearance?

Have you ever taken something that someone else needed?

Have you ever denied a bum the change he asked you to give?

Have you ever called someone a bum?

Have you laughed at a crude joke?

Have you made rude comments about a woman’s appearance?

Have you ever enjoyed the harm done to others?

Have you ever slowed down to look at an auto accident?

How about laughing at someone taking a fall?

How about judging someone by their appearance?

Did you ever laugh at a priest and altar boy joke?

Did you ever laugh at a holocaust joke?

Did you ever question someone’s sexuality?

Did you ever say, “Some of my best friends are ....”

Ever laugh at a racial stereotype joke?

Did you ever toss a prostitute off a bridge?

Well, I have done all those things, except the last one. Still, the day is young, so who knows?

So you perfect types can toss your stones.

As for me I’m old enough to accept we are all hypocrits to some extent and what we keep private is quite different from what we engage in publicly.

Have you called the guy that runs your industry a “f****t” in an email, or insulted a gay player by calling him a “queer” simply because he tried to pursue a career in the NFL. (And this is ignoring all of his other emails)

I haven’t done either in my life…though had I, that would make me unemployable as an NFL Head Coach today.

He can be an unemployed hypocrite for a while.

 

[ApexLion]

Oh how the self righteous preen and strut.

Have you ever made a joke about someone’s appearance?

Have you ever taken something that someone else needed?

Have you ever denied a bum the change he asked you to give?

Have you ever called someone a bum?

Have you laughed at a crude joke?

Have you made rude comments about a woman’s appearance?

Have you ever enjoyed the harm done to others?

Have you ever slowed down to look at an auto accident?

How about laughing at someone taking a fall?

How about judging someone by their appearance?

Did you ever laugh at a priest and altar boy joke?

Did you ever laugh at a holocaust joke?

Did you ever question someone’s sexuality?

Did you ever say, “Some of my best friends are ....”

Ever laugh at a racial stereotype joke?

Did you ever toss a prostitute off a bridge?

Well, I have done all those things, except the last one. Still, the day is young, so who knows?

So you perfect types can toss your stones.

As for me I’m old enough to accept we are all hypocrits to some extent and what we keep private is quite different from what we engage in publicly.

He coaches a multimillion dollar team comprised of several African-American athletes. I’m beginning to think the Gruden defenders on here could care less about Gruden and simply want to justify being disrespectful to people who do not share their background or sexual preference. It’s either that or they simply do not understand how large companies operate. The buck stops with the coach in the NFL. Gruden knows that and therefore resigned. Not that complicated.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Worthy of losing his job...maybe, but had he won a Super Bowl last year....he would be coach right now.

He wouldn’t have survived this regardless what the Raiders did last season.

 

[OaktonDave]

Yeah, closer to my take. He is arrogant and conceited with a huge sense of self worth. He also talks like he is one of the cool guys with all the cool slang. So he thought he was above all that sensitivity crap.

He's not exactly in a field that promotes things like humility or offers a good environment to develop a healthy perspective on reality. He's enjoyed celebrity status and been told he's brilliant for the last few decades and undoubtedly has had an ample supply of enablers. There are certainly people who can handle that, but many, like him, that can't. It doesn't help that he has never seemed to be interested in much of anything but football. I see much the same in Urban Meyer.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Ah, the modern Inquisition that takes delight in dealing out their justice.

All those who fail to conform are to be brought out and stoned.

As sure as day follows night they will receive their justice turned back on them.

 

[MacNit07]

Kobe once called a ref a "fag*ot" and found himself out of favor with the sport and cultural media for a few months. The same moralizing talking heads at ESPN reprimanded him in print and on TV. He had to walk the proverbial social plank for a few months, do a few press conferences apologizing for his insensitive remarks....speak at an LBGT event about how he has now learned of the ills of his language and talk about how he has now become "reformed." You know, the standard faux apology that looks more like a P.R. tour that we make public figures engage in when they do/say something insensitive.

I dusted off the old article if you're interested: https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2011-apr-13-la-sp-kobe-bryant-lakers-20110414-story.html

So I’m other words, he got the proverbial pass. I am shocked!