Gruden is done

[ChiTownLion]

Here, the Huffington Post (of all places) debunks the theory of unequal pay in the U.S. Again, I've heard the 77 cents on the dollar claim a million times and always assumed it to be true. Anyway, for those interested...

Wage Gap Myth Exposed -- By Feminists

Bypass the verbal sleights of hand and take a hard look at the numbers. Women are close to achieving the goal of equal pay for equal work. They may be there already.

www.huffpost.com

 

[PSUHarry33]

If your delicate sensibilities were offended by Gruden's emails, blame the media. They are the ones that put the emails out there.

Gruden comes across like a normal guy to me. Not a guy that will cry if someone calls him a name. Newsflash: there are a lot of us out there. 99% of the people I know fall in this category. So Gruden knows there are people that you can email stuff like this (in a PRIVATE email), and people you can't (beca?use they will cry like a little bitch).

Gruden was emailing his friends. I email/text my friends some awful shit. Call them some terrible things. Again, these are private conversations, and no serious conclusion can be drawn from the content of these conversations. It's fun, harmless shit talking. It is possible to say some awful shit in PRIVATE conversations, and still be a good person. Still be a person whose ACTIONS are honorable. And regarding these types of conversations, I'm not going to have similar conversations with Joe Peace Corps, or the head of the Sierra Club. I know my audience.

So if the sports media is so horrified by the atrocities spoken in these emails, and concerned about the pain these terrible words will cause, they have no one to blame but themselves. They put it out for public consumption, when that was not the intent.

Definition of character is what you do when no one is watching or in this case for Gruden, when you think no one is watching.

So when Gruden put these things out there while employed by a public company, he never thought anyone else would see the email? That Bruce Allen wouldn't ever forward it to anyone in the Washington Football organization? That forwarding NSFW images of topless women is OK to do on a company network resource? His stupidity is only rivaled by his racism and bigotry.

So being normal is being insensitive to name calling in a professional environment? So it's all justified because he was emailing his friends? So we can all just call people names and it doesn't matter? At what point does it all just break down?

I think you should send an email to your normal friend guy Jon Gruden and ask him if he thinks his private conversations are harmless to him now. I actually give him some credit for resigning first if that's how it really went down. We don't know how that conversation really went. I'm hoping it was him who initiated it. We will never know. But his exit statement was some pretty weak sauce.

His Actions were honorable? How do you get to have it both ways here?

So you want the media to apologize to everyone, not Gruden? People who see this as the media's fault have an accountability issue. Perhaps driven by what they know their own actions were in the past or present.

 

[91Joe95]

Here, the Huffington Post (of all places) debunks the theory of unequal pay in the U.S. Again, I've heard the 77 cents on the dollar claim a million times and always assumed it to be true. Anyway, for those interested...

Wage Gap Myth Exposed -- By Feminists

Bypass the verbal sleights of hand and take a hard look at the numbers. Women are close to achieving the goal of equal pay for equal work. They may be there already.

www.huffpost.com

Heretic.

 

[NoBareFeet]

That forwarding NSFW images of topless women is OK to do on a company network resource?

Wrong. The NYT article indicates that Gruden was using his personal email.

Definition of character is what you do when no one is watching

Agreed. Actions not words, right?

So when Gruden put these things out there while employed by a public company, he never thought anyone else would see the email?

Again, Gruden was on his personal email. And no, I'm sure he didn't think anyone else other than those he sent it to would see the emails. Seems like a reasonable assumption. Do your friends forward everything you email and text them to others?

His stupidity is only rivaled by his racism and bigotry.

I've asked a couple of times and gotten nothing, but I'll ask again...what did Gruden say that was even remotely racist?

But his exit statement was some pretty weak sauce.

Somewhat agree. Shouldn't have apologized at all. Should have called out the absurdity of cancel culture. And should have called out Goodell for carrying out this (probable) hit job.

 

[demlion]

One of the differences racists make note of and make mocking comments about are physical differences---skin color being the most obvious one. By itself, taken alone, this might not make any difference to most folks, but it is not by itself, and NOT taken alone. It is a racist trope.

And to deny it is racist TRIPE.

 

[PSUHarry33]

Heretic.

Good article, talks about all the factors that influence the statistics. At the end of the day if you read the article, there is still a gap.

Census data also shows a gap.

 

[NoBareFeet]

One of the differences racists make note of and make mocking comments about are physical differences---skin color being the most obvious one. By itself, taken alone, this might not make any difference to most folks, but it is not by itself, and NOT taken alone. It is a racist trope.

And to deny it is racist TRIPE

This Gruden matter sounds like another case where the supply of racism does not equal the demand.

I know if I was a total racist and bigot, the first place I'd go looking for a job would be to the NFL as a head football coach. That sure would isolate you from what you so fiercely detest.

 

[demlion]

An Open Letter to Raiders Coach Jon Gruden and QB Derek Carr on Big Lips and Racist Bones

Let me say the hard shit that your teammates aren't saying right now.

www.thenorthstar.com

 

[bkmtnittany1]

and to think that he was eating and drinking at the Tavern.

With Neuheisel!!

 

[PearlSUJam]

LOL, I didn't even know the XFL was still around.

It gets worse. 🤦‍♂️

USFL 2022: Can the revived league avoid the mistakes the XFL and AAF both made?

The USFL is back, but it will have to compete with the XFL and stay financially viable

www.cbssports.com

 

[ram2020]

What trouble was Kobe in? He was canonized.

Kobe once called a ref a "fag*ot" and found himself out of favor with the sport and cultural media for a few months. The same moralizing talking heads at ESPN reprimanded him in print and on TV. He had to walk the proverbial social plank for a few months, do a few press conferences apologizing for his insensitive remarks....speak at an LBGT event about how he has now learned of the ills of his language and talk about how he has now become "reformed." You know, the standard faux apology that looks more like a P.R. tour that we make public figures engage in when they do/say something insensitive.

I dusted off the old article if you're interested: https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2011-apr-13-la-sp-kobe-bryant-lakers-20110414-story.html

 

[PSUHarry33]

Wrong. The NYT article indicates that Gruden was using his personal email.


Agreed. Actions not words, right?


Again, Gruden was on his personal email. And no, I'm sure he didn't think anyone else other than those he sent it to would see the emails. Seems like a reasonable assumption. Do your friends forward everything you email and text them to others?


I've asked a couple of times and gotten nothing, but I'll ask again...what did Gruden say that was even remotely racist?


Somewhat agree. Shouldn't have apologized at all. Should have called out the absurdity of cancel culture. And should have called out Goodell for carrying out this (probable) hit job.

Well actually he didn't apologize so there's that. I wonder why he didn't call out the absurdity of cancel culture? He had nothing to lose. He already lost his job, Why wouldn't he speak his mind? I don't understand.

 

[demlion]

This Gruden matter sounds like another case where the supply of racism does not equal the demand.

I know if I was a total racist and bigot, the first place I'd go looking for a job would be to the NFL as a head football coach. That sure would isolate you from what you so fiercely detest.

Oh, that assumes he admits it. As we have seen, that is not true. He does not have a racist bone in his body. LOL.

 

[bvillebaron]

I wouldn't doubt the Raiders were the ones who leaked it. 10 years for $100 million for mediocrity?

If I were Gruden I wouldn’t have resigned. I would have made the Raiders fire me and insist on being paid every penny.

 

[SLion]

If Gruden's email made fun of the size of Mick Jagger's lips, would that be racist?

Call me crazy, but I kind of find it racist to assume that making fun of D. Smith's lips has some sort of racial overtones. Wouldn't have occurred to ME, at least.

Your ignorance to the racial angle of this does not clear Gruden. He knew what he was saying and how imflammatory it would be. No excuses

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Always your choice, but you do not get to set their policy for them.

Of course not. You guys do.

You guys have made it OK to brag about shooting cops and saying the N word over and over again in their “music”. That’s why they do it. Apparently, that’s what young people listen to in today’s world.

The rest of us…… we just go because it’s the BEST freakin gym run by the BEST freakin people on the Planet!!

By the way. How you been? Hope your health is good. Haven’t seen you around in awhile. Glad to see you back! 🙂

 

[PSUHarry33]

If I were Gruden I wouldn’t have resigned. I would have made the Raiders fire me and insist on being paid every penny.

I think we would need to better understand the conduct clauses of his Raider contract to determine if this was really an option for him. Things seemed to happen pretty fast here. I wonder if he consulted his lawyer re: his contract when the first email came out.

 

[bvillebaron]

Kobe once called a ref a "fag*ot" and found himself out of favor with the sport and cultural media for a few months. The same moralizing talking heads at ESPN reprimanded him in print and on TV. He had to walk the proverbial social plank for a few months, do a few press conferences apologizing for his insensitive remarks....speak at an LBGT event about how he has now learned of the ills of his language and talk about how he has now become "reformed." You know, the standard faux apology that looks more like a P.R. tour that we make public figures engage in when they do/say something insensitive.

I dusted off the old article if you're interested: https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2011-apr-13-la-sp-kobe-bryant-lakers-20110414-story.html

Of course. Only white racists, homophobes, and misogynists get cancelled. Non-whites who engage in similar conduct offer a half-assed non-apology and all is forgiven.

 

[91Joe95]

One of the differences racists make note of and make mocking comments about are physical differences---skin color being the most obvious one. By itself, taken alone, this might not make any difference to most folks, but it is not by itself, and NOT taken alone. It is a racist trope.

And to deny it is racist TRIPE.

One of the things racists do is vote for kkk or former kkk members.

 

[demlion]

Of course not. You guys do.

You guys have made it OK to brag about shooting cops and saying the N word over and over again in their “music”. That’s why they do it. Apparently, that’s what young people listen to in today’s world.

The rest of us…… we just go because it’s the BEST freakin gym run by the BEST freakin people on the Planet!!

By the way. How you been? Hope your health is good. Haven’t seen you around in awhile. Glad to see you back! 🙂

Can't imagine why they would take my view into account. Not a customer, never will be.

 

[ram2020]

An Open Letter to Raiders Coach Jon Gruden and QB Derek Carr on Big Lips and Racist Bones

Let me say the hard shit that your teammates aren't saying right now.

www.thenorthstar.com

I'll save everyone the time of reading the infamous Shaun King here. Every white person is racist, even if "unintentionally" racist. Gruden and Derek Carr don't simply get to be "non-racists" they need to read CRT books to learn how to be "anti-racist." This was their time to shine and defend the blacks on their team, instead they merely talked about how they personally are not racist. Basically, had Carr and Gruden applied the virtues of CRT here, and only CRT here, would it have absolved them from their unintentional racism, but then, they would still probably need to be removed from their jobs or something....

 

[demlion]

I'll save everyone the time of reading the infamous Shaun King here. Every white person is racist, even if "unintentionally" racist. Gruden and Derek Carr don't simply get to be "non-racists" they need to read CRT books to learn how to be "anti-racist." This was their time to shine and defend the blacks on their team, instead they merely talked about how they personally are not racist. Basically, had Carr and Gruden applied the virtues of CRT here, and only CRT here, would it have absolved them from their unintentional racism, but then, they would still probably need to be removed from their jobs or something....

Wow, must have hit you pretty hard. Surprising since I am sure you don't have a racist bone in your body.

 

[Nbergbuck]

Nobody is actively searching out these kinds of things. Stupid people are stupid enough to say/do things that are easily discoverable.

Fair enough, but here are the questions. My understanding is that these emails are from 10 years ago. How did they come to light now? Apparently they are not private. If we are going to engage in witch hunts shouldn't we be inclusive? Shouldn't be looking in everyone's closet for skeletons? I'll bet some real surprises would be found. Admittedly it does remind one of the purges by Stalin in the 1930's, but those are the times in which we live.

 

[91Joe95]

If I were Gruden I wouldn’t have resigned. I would have made the Raiders fire me and insist on being paid every penny.

He very well may be paid the remainder for agreeing to step down in a non-PR confrontational manner. He has an agent, and the agent has financial incentive to understand every detail of his contract and ensure it is paid out.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Fair enough, but here are the questions. My understanding is that these emails are from 10 years ago. How did they come to light now? Apparently they are not private. If we are going to engage in witch hunts shouldn't we be inclusive? Shouldn't be looking in everyone's closet for skeletons? I'll bet some real surprises would be found. Admittedly it does remind one of the purges by Stalin in the 1930's, but those are the times in which we live.

Do every single NFL player and executive if this is the standard. This is why I don't watch the NFL.

 

[PearlSUJam]

If I were Gruden I wouldn’t have resigned. I would have made the Raiders fire me and insist on being paid every penny.

I believe the NFL were the ones leaking the emails. What if there's worse out there from him? Would you still have the same attitude?

 

[91Joe95]

I'll save everyone the time of reading the infamous Shaun King here. Every white person is racist, even if "unintentionally" racist. Gruden and Derek Carr don't simply get to be "non-racists" they need to read CRT books to learn how to be "anti-racist." This was their time to shine and defend the blacks on their team, instead they merely talked about how they personally are not racist. Basically, had Carr and Gruden applied the virtues of CRT here, and only CRT here, would it have absolved them from their unintentional racism, but then, they would still probably need to be removed from their jobs or something....

Everyone's a victim. Whatever.

 

[ram2020]

Wow, must have hit you pretty hard. Surprising since I am sure you don't have a racist bone in your body.

Yeah, you're good at this, you could be his apprentice. I'm racist, whether it's in my bones or not(he argues astutely how ridiculous that statement is, for I which I agree). We are all at the alter of racism, however unintentional. Reform and salvation can only truly be awarded through purchasing CRT books and admitting to original sin....That being we are all racists and is steers every aspect of society. Gruden and Carr definitely should have taken that approach.

 

[BBrown]

If your delicate sensibilities were offended by Gruden's emails, blame the media. They are the ones that put the emails out there.

Gruden comes across like a normal guy to me. Not a guy that will cry if someone calls him a name. Newsflash: there are a lot of us out there. 99% of the people I know fall in this category. So Gruden knows there are people that you can email stuff like this (in a PRIVATE email), and people you can't (because they will cry like a little bitch).

Gruden was emailing his friends. I email/text my friends some awful shit. Call them some terrible things. Again, these are private conversations, and no serious conclusion can be drawn from the content of these conversations. It's fun, harmless shit talking. It is possible to say some awful shit in PRIVATE conversations, and still be a good person. Still be a person whose ACTIONS are honorable. And regarding these types of conversations, I'm not going to have similar conversations with Joe Peace Corps, or the head of the Sierra Club. I know my audience.

So if the sports media is so horrified by the atrocities spoken in these emails, and concerned about the pain these terrible words will cause, they have no one to blame but themselves. They put it out for public consumption, when that was not the intent.

Seems an appropriate place to drop this...
Enjoy...

 

[LafayetteBear]

You guys have made it OK to brag about shooting cops and saying the N word over and over again in their “music”. That’s why they do it.

OK, so now we know "their 'music' " is not really music at all. Thanks for that.

BTW, who are "they?"

 

[demlion]

Yeah, you're good at this, you could be his apprentice. I'm racist, whether it's in my bones or not(he argues astutely how ridiculous that statement is, for I which I agree). We are all at the alter of racism, however unintentional. Reform and salvation can only truly be awarded through purchasing CRT books and admitting to original sin....That being we are all racists and is steers every aspect of society. Gruden and Carr definitely should have taken that approach.

Like 91-95 says, everyone's a victim, right? Oh, the terrible injustice of that coward's cheesy racist remarks about D. Smith coming back to bite him. Your self pity is heartbreaking. LOL!

 

[Erial_Lion]

Somewhat agree. Shouldn't have apologized at all. Should have called out the absurdity of cancel culture. And should have called out Goodell for carrying out this (probable) hit job.

Thank God we now live in a world where insulting someone’s sexuality or calling someone a gay slur as an insult isn’t tolerated, and actually might draw out an apology…absurdity would be ignoring those things, simply because the guy that did it didn’t mean for it to get out.

 

[PSUHarry33]

Fair enough, but here are the questions. My understanding is that these emails are from 10 years ago. How did they come to light now? Apparently they are not private. If we are going to engage in witch hunts shouldn't we be inclusive? Shouldn't be looking in everyone's closet for skeletons? I'll bet some real surprises would be found. Admittedly it does remind one of the purges by Stalin in the 1930's, but those are the times in which we live.

It seems they surfaced from the Washington Football investigation. So for them to surface I would imagine Gruden sent the stuff including not NSFW work pic to Bruce Allens professional email address.

Don Van Natta brought up an interesting point. They reviewed 650,000 emails and only the Gruden ones were leaked.

Don Van Natta Tweet

 

[Erial_Lion]

Fair enough, but here are the questions. My understanding is that these emails are from 10 years ago. How did they come to light now? Apparently they are not private. If we are going to engage in witch hunts shouldn't we be inclusive? Shouldn't be looking in everyone's closet for skeletons? I'll bet some real surprises would be found. Admittedly it does remind one of the purges by Stalin in the 1930's, but those are the times in which we live.

The NFL is investigating Washington, and they turned over hundreds of thousands of emails as part of the investigation…Gruden’s emails were to an employee of the WFT, thus they were pulled as part of this…my guess would be that the investigators were doing the same type of thing that the Freeh Group did with PSU, and were searching for keywords. Gruden’s emails obviously used words that would pop up in such a search.

 

[ram2020]

Like 91-95 says, everyone's a victim, right? Oh, the terrible injustice of that coward's cheesy racist remarks about D. Smith coming back to bite him. Your self pity is heartbreaking. LOL!

No, not right. That isn't my position at all and you can look at my other comments on this thread, I stated that Gruden should be terminated. You are equating my criticism of the article you attached with defending racism or in particular, Gruden's behavior here, for which I am not. We don't have to be so illogical and polarized, two concepts can prevail. He said something racist...he deserved to be fired. I don't think Mr. King's article would have done anything, but perpetuated the problem. Basically that Gruden and Carr have to suggest, and very publicly, that they are indeed racist. If we are going to talk inherent bias, yes, everyone experiences that, it runs both ways. This isn't an either or....Gruden resigned as he should have, I don't think he owes society or Black people anything more than an apology and resignation. Would they really feel better if he were to seek counseling for his underlying racism? Instead of just linking articles, tell me what you would have done in Gruden or Carrs position? If a you said something offensive in the workplace(not that YOU or any of us would). You would appologize......resign? Would you pay Ibrahim X. Kennedy $40,000 for a personal session with you to teach you about your inherent bias?

 

[demlion]

It seems they surfaced from the Washington Football investigation. So for them to surface I would imagine Gruden sent the stuff including not NSFW work pic to Bruce Allens professional email address.

Don Van Natta brought up an interesting point. They reviewed 650,000 emails and only the Gruden ones were leaked.

Don Van Natta Tweet

I would guess he was the most famous of those whose offensive emails were reviewed.

 

[PSUHarry33]

I would guess he was the most famous of those whose offensive emails were reviewed.

Perhaps, I mean who give an F about Bruce Allen.

 

[PSUHarry33]

No, not right. That isn't my position at all and you can look at my other comments on this thread, I stated that Gruden should be terminated. You are equating my criticism of the article you attached with defending racism or in particular, Gruden's behavior here, for which I am not. We don't have to be so illogical and polarized, two concepts can prevail. He said something racist...he deserved to be fired. I don't think Mr. King's article would have done anything, but perpetuated the problem. Basically that Gruden and Carr have to suggest, and very publicly, that they are indeed racist. If we are going to talk inherent bias, yes, everyone experiences that, it runs both ways. This isn't an either or....Gruden resigned as he should have, I don't think he owes society or Black people anything more than an apology and resignation. Would they really feel better if he were to seek counseling for his underlying racism? Instead of just linking articles, tell me what you would have done in Gruden or Carrs position? If a you said something offensive in the workplace(not that YOU or any of us would). You would appologize......resign? Would you pay Ibrahim X. Kennedy $40,000 for a personal session with you to teach you about your inherent bias?

Well he still hasn't apologized, so theres that.

 

[NoBareFeet]

I would guess he was the most famous of those whose offensive emails were reviewed.

No. Far more likely is that Goodell saw to it.

The NFL was doing the investigation. Over the course of the investigation, they found emails with Gruden calling Goodell a f a g g o t and a pussy. Then (I cannot prove this, but think this is likely) Goodell basically proves Gruden's point, in that Goodell sees to it that these emails get leaked and the media gladly takes care of the rest.

 

[demlion]

No, not right. That isn't my position at all and you can look at my other comments on this thread, I stated that Gruden should be terminated. You are equating my criticism of the article you attached with defending racism or in particular, Gruden's behavior here, for which I am not. We don't have to be so illogical and polarized, two concepts can prevail. He said something racist...he deserved to be fired. I don't think Mr. King's article would have done anything, but perpetuated the problem. Basically that Gruden and Carr have to suggest, and very publicly, that they are indeed racist. If we are going to talk inherent bias, yes, everyone experiences that, it runs both ways. This isn't an either or....Gruden resigned as he should have, I don't think he owes society or Black people anything more than an apology and resignation. Would they really feel better if he were to seek counseling for his underlying racism? Instead of just linking articles, tell me what you would have done in Gruden or Carrs position? If a you said something offensive in the workplace(not that YOU or any of us would). You would appologize......resign? Would you pay Ibrahim X. Kennedy $40,000 for a personal session with you to teach you about your inherent bias?

He has every right to comment about it, especially since so many people in this discussion are just like Gruden--pretending not to understand how it could possible for such a comment to be objectionable. I am well aware of my inherent biases, and it is a mark of a decent human being that you not blather them in writing to others.