Agreed, but just as many start them let for dreams of athletic glory, and/or keep them back in 6th or 8th grade, way mote than even a decade ago.
High School Wrestling Thread
- Thread starter BrockBronson
- Start date
I always felt that I should have been held back a year for sports. I had to miss a year of wrestling cause of pain from a big growth spurt.
So when I had a kid, I wanted to hold her back a year. I discussed it with her teachers and they all told me that I was an idiot. So I listened to them.
I'm a great story writer and ..
Merry Christmas!
So when I had a kid, I wanted to hold her back a year. I discussed it with her teachers and they all told me that I was an idiot. So I listened to them.
I'm a great story writer and ..
Merry Christmas!
Did this have something to do with holding your kid back, or...
LOL. Merry Christmas! Missed you at lunch the other day. I hope you're feeling better.
Thanks Brother.
I was pissed that I couldn't make it. Paul told me I missed a good time.
Merry Christmas!
District 4 had some good ones last night.
Benton beat wyalusing 42-14 (Morrow over Vanderpool was a solid victory)
Warrior Run is looking good. They beat Montoursville. I heard the match of the night was Milheim over Little Wentzel 4-3. Ulrich beating Kennedy surprised me. WR has been putting this squad together for a while now. Excited to see them in the post season.
Williamsport over SC. No good matchups.
Benton beat wyalusing 42-14 (Morrow over Vanderpool was a solid victory)
Warrior Run is looking good. They beat Montoursville. I heard the match of the night was Milheim over Little Wentzel 4-3. Ulrich beating Kennedy surprised me. WR has been putting this squad together for a while now. Excited to see them in the post season.
Williamsport over SC. No good matchups.
What is going on with Southern Columbia.
Faith academy put on a clinic 66-3.
139 - Mason Wagner pinned Brayden Andrews, 4:47 (6-0)
145 - Chase Hontz pinned Caden Hopper, 1:08 (12-0)
152 - Max Stein won by forfeit (18-0)
160 - Cael Weidemoyer won by forfeit (24-0)
172 - Adam Waters won by forfeit (30-0)
189 - Jude Bremigen dec. Jonny Beckett, 4-2 (30-3)
215 - Jason Singer won by forfeit (36-3)
285 - Mark Effendian won by forfeit (42-3)
107 - Kole Davidheiser pinned Rowen Humphrey, 1:39 (48-3)
114 - No match (48-3)
121 - Gauge Botero pinned Caiden Gray, 0:54 (54-3)
127 - Jonny O'Brien pinned Edward Zuber, 0:42 (60-3)
133 - Arment Waltenbaugh won by forfeit (66-3)
Faith academy put on a clinic 66-3.
139 - Mason Wagner pinned Brayden Andrews, 4:47 (6-0)
145 - Chase Hontz pinned Caden Hopper, 1:08 (12-0)
152 - Max Stein won by forfeit (18-0)
160 - Cael Weidemoyer won by forfeit (24-0)
172 - Adam Waters won by forfeit (30-0)
189 - Jude Bremigen dec. Jonny Beckett, 4-2 (30-3)
215 - Jason Singer won by forfeit (36-3)
285 - Mark Effendian won by forfeit (42-3)
107 - Kole Davidheiser pinned Rowen Humphrey, 1:39 (48-3)
114 - No match (48-3)
121 - Gauge Botero pinned Caiden Gray, 0:54 (54-3)
127 - Jonny O'Brien pinned Edward Zuber, 0:42 (60-3)
133 - Arment Waltenbaugh won by forfeit (66-3)
There was a clinic somewhere among all of those forfeits?
"Half of winning is just showing up." Literally in this case.
Crazy part is they had wrestlers for the first four matches they won leading into the finals. Then barely wrestled the finals.
Flu has been hitting teams hard, could be the case. Or don’t put money on SC at team states
I was thinking the same thing SC has some horses left in the stabile. They won’t go down that easy.
The PIAA strikes again! Nick Kunstek was ruled ineligible for Post season! Yet, cross district Vince Bouzakis was approved.
What is going on with the PIAA. Honestly it’s losing it credibility and more & more people could careless about it. Each year less and less, D1 coaches attend. It used to be like Super 32 or Ironman with coaches.
Wrestling is an individual sport, let this poor kid wrestle.
Other news out of D10. They approved a few mid season transfers but denied Gill of his appeal. Heard that one is being pushed to an injunction hearing.
PIAA needs to figure out their own rules and apply them the same across the board
What is going on with the PIAA. Honestly it’s losing it credibility and more & more people could careless about it. Each year less and less, D1 coaches attend. It used to be like Super 32 or Ironman with coaches.
Wrestling is an individual sport, let this poor kid wrestle.
Other news out of D10. They approved a few mid season transfers but denied Gill of his appeal. Heard that one is being pushed to an injunction hearing.
PIAA needs to figure out their own rules and apply them the same across the board
I agree that Kunstek should be wrestling.
And can we stick to the facts over the hyperbole?
Kunstek was not ruled ineligible by PIAA. D11 made the ruling. (Does this mean Hartman doesn't let everything go?) He will undoubtedly appeal to PIAA. If disapproved there, he has the legal option.
And Bouzakis' status is irrelevant. Kunstek is 26-0, which means he was approved to wrestle until he wasn't.
How is the Bouzakis ruling irrelevant? It’s the same exact situation. Actually Nick’s makes more sense why he should be approved. He moved back into the house with his parents, where he grew up at. Bouzakis went to the returning AA state champions, a few weeks before the season started. How wasn’t that athletic intent
Different district making the ruling. PIAA doesn't initiate disciplinary action. The district committee does. The PIAA hears appeals. One of many PIAA problems is rules and disciplines are not equally enforced nor dished out.
The model is reliant upon everybody seeing everything the same. In other words, a joke.
The model is reliant upon everybody seeing everything the same. In other words, a joke.
Like I said above, Bouzakis is irrelevant because both of them were eligible to start the season. So what changed? Somebody in D11 raised a stink about Kunstek mid-season, and they held a vote. Whoever objected to Kunstek almost certainly had no jurisdiction to object to Bouzakis, because they never attended the same schools and PA has AA and AAA classifications.
That's the process, and it's no mystery. It's been that way since God was a child.
Not defending the process. It stinks on ice. Kunstek should be able to wrestle, without having to file an appeal with PIAA. As should Bouzakis. And Gill.
But what are you or I gonna do about it? Verk sued PIAA and they just shrugged. We're not school officials, a coaches' association, or the state legislature -- and even those groups get PIAA to change at a glacial pace.
Kunstek’s situation reminds me of the first part of the Alex Meade saga. He went to Caesar Rodney, tries to transfer to Christiansburg, VA, it didn’t work out, so he went back home to Caesar Rodney, and Delaware rules him ineligible as a transfer for going back to his original school. So the solution is, Kunstek should now try to transfer to a school in New Jersey (like Meade then trying to go to Easton).
I kid, but I understand why Kunstek can’t wrestle in the postseason the way the rule is written. My confusion stems from the rule change a couple years back that was supposed to simplify this by just blanket making everybody ineligible. It was advertised as being “no exceptions, it’s fair because it sucks for everybody” and that just hasn’t played out. Does anybody actually have the text of that amendment to the transfer rules that I can parse? That might unlock some of the Bouzakis argument - which I agree, I don’t understand how a mid-career transfer from boarding school to a PIAA school gets treated differently, on paper, the only difference is ND is a private school, but that shouldn’t seem to matter unless there is a glaring exception I’m not aware of.
I kid, but I understand why Kunstek can’t wrestle in the postseason the way the rule is written. My confusion stems from the rule change a couple years back that was supposed to simplify this by just blanket making everybody ineligible. It was advertised as being “no exceptions, it’s fair because it sucks for everybody” and that just hasn’t played out. Does anybody actually have the text of that amendment to the transfer rules that I can parse? That might unlock some of the Bouzakis argument - which I agree, I don’t understand how a mid-career transfer from boarding school to a PIAA school gets treated differently, on paper, the only difference is ND is a private school, but that shouldn’t seem to matter unless there is a glaring exception I’m not aware of.
pardon my ignorance, but why would somebody have jurisdiction to challenge Kunstek, but not Bouzakis? Who qualifies as able to file a complaint to the district? I thought it could be any member institution, not just one of the schools, or a school on their schedule, but I could be wrong?
Litigation is what opened the D11 transfer portal back up in the first place. Justin Pacchioli hopper schools to play football at Easton in the fall and baseball at Nazareth in the spring. D11 and the PIAA both ruled him ineligible for the spring, but he sued and won and didn’t sit a game. After that, D11 got pretty gun shy on transfers and you see the obvious result.
The only school who can bitch, whine or protest officially is the school losing the student-athlete. Since he started at Pottsville, wrestled for Blair then came back to Pottsville I am not sure who in the hell has grounds to complain. It sure as hell wasn't Pottsville or Blair. The whole thing is a little shady. I am thinking the PIAA doesn't uphold this one.
For those in my area, McCort at Chestnut Ridge next Tuesday. A chance to watch a couple future Nittany Lions. 
I agree. This makes sense. The PIAA and their rules are grey. They either need to get rid of their transfer policy & rules, or enforce it each and every time
Ok, getting out the handbook and looking at the rule - here is how the jurisdiction part seems to work with transfer complaints:
III. Manner in which matters may arise before Regional Panel or District Committee
2. On a complaint made by a member school regarding matters arising under ARTICLE VI. TRANSFERS, RESIDENCE, AND RECRUITING of the PIAA By-Laws, involving Transfers or athletic recruiting involving schools from two or more PIAA Districts.
3. On a complaint made by a a member school alleging violations by a school in another PIAA District of the Constitution, By-Laws, Policies and Procedures, and Rules and Regulations of PIAA.
4. On the Regional Panel's own initiative, as a result of information received from any source.
(bolding mine)
That sounds to me like any school can make a complaint (the standard is just a member school, not a member school specifically involved in the transfer). Again, going back to the Alex Meade situation, this tracks because as I recall the school that filed the complaint about Meade transferring to Easton was Northampton, which got a lot of eye rolls at the time. But bringing it back to current day, with this standard, I'm surprised nobody has filed on Bouzakis, just because Veres isn't the most popular guy in the area, as I've alluded to before.
III. Manner in which matters may arise before Regional Panel or District Committee
2. On a complaint made by a member school regarding matters arising under ARTICLE VI. TRANSFERS, RESIDENCE, AND RECRUITING of the PIAA By-Laws, involving Transfers or athletic recruiting involving schools from two or more PIAA Districts.
3. On a complaint made by a a member school alleging violations by a school in another PIAA District of the Constitution, By-Laws, Policies and Procedures, and Rules and Regulations of PIAA.
4. On the Regional Panel's own initiative, as a result of information received from any source.
(bolding mine)
That sounds to me like any school can make a complaint (the standard is just a member school, not a member school specifically involved in the transfer). Again, going back to the Alex Meade situation, this tracks because as I recall the school that filed the complaint about Meade transferring to Easton was Northampton, which got a lot of eye rolls at the time. But bringing it back to current day, with this standard, I'm surprised nobody has filed on Bouzakis, just because Veres isn't the most popular guy in the area, as I've alluded to before.
I was unaware of that rule, I thought it was the sending or receiving school.
This brings me to wonder why no one, complained about 50-60 current HS wrestlers who transferred in after MS. Every wrestler for a private school had to transfer in, unless they started in the elementary and that is never the case.
It’s nuts to thing someone filed against Kunstek going to an average Pottsville from the beginning of the year, moving back to his house he grew up in. But then doesn’t file against Bouzakis going to NDGP a few weeks before the season. D11 knows of both situations and has the right to act on them both. Veres might be looked at as a jerk but definitely has some pull in D11 and with ❤️Man.
How about the 15-20 really good PIAA wrestlers who attend a district and don’t even live in that district. There are a bunch of them and they are all good ones too. PIAA is a circus and starting to really lose control. Now PIAA isn’t looked at the same. What D1 coach wants to scout an event knowing the best kids are out. Here is comes,,,,,,,
PIAA needs to go AA, AAA and Privates. If a school has anyone on the team who transferred in from 7th grade on, they bump up. AA to AAA, AAA to Private.
This brings me to wonder why no one, complained about 50-60 current HS wrestlers who transferred in after MS. Every wrestler for a private school had to transfer in, unless they started in the elementary and that is never the case.
It’s nuts to thing someone filed against Kunstek going to an average Pottsville from the beginning of the year, moving back to his house he grew up in. But then doesn’t file against Bouzakis going to NDGP a few weeks before the season. D11 knows of both situations and has the right to act on them both. Veres might be looked at as a jerk but definitely has some pull in D11 and with ❤️Man.
How about the 15-20 really good PIAA wrestlers who attend a district and don’t even live in that district. There are a bunch of them and they are all good ones too. PIAA is a circus and starting to really lose control. Now PIAA isn’t looked at the same. What D1 coach wants to scout an event knowing the best kids are out. Here is comes,,,,,,,
PIAA needs to go AA, AAA and Privates. If a school has anyone on the team who transferred in from 7th grade on, they bump up. AA to AAA, AAA to Private.
Maybe someone with more knowledge of PIAA, but how does a kid get suspended from wrestling after transferring from a prep school not even in the same state as said public school.
I would be shocked if the PIAA upholds this, as wrestlers like Kuntesk choosing to stay at or come back to their PIAA public schools is what the PIAA should want. It is bringing more talent back to the public schools and to the state tournaments
so who is running the PIAA now days,mark emmert?they have to be equal with all schools which they don't do!!
Good ole boys club. PIAA is supposed to be for the kids and being fair. They are the furthest thing from either.
Two public schools kids are sitting out (Gill and Kunstek), yet all the Private schools get away with reloading every year. Why can’t the public schools play this game too?
I said this earlier, name any program in the top 10 AA or AAA (Private or Public) that has 100% of their wrestlers HOMEGROWN? Every good program has kids moving in and has been since decades. Gosh, Even Easton brought in @Willie to fill 103.
Two public schools kids are sitting out (Gill and Kunstek), yet all the Private schools get away with reloading every year. Why can’t the public schools play this game too?
I said this earlier, name any program in the top 10 AA or AAA (Private or Public) that has 100% of their wrestlers HOMEGROWN? Every good program has kids moving in and has been since decades. Gosh, Even Easton brought in @Willie to fill 103.
District 11 also had Crivallaro bouncing from schools mid season years ago.
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I think I’ve told that story on here. Sal was supposed to be the next big thing as an Easton football player. During camp in his sophomore year, he got beaten out for the running back spot by another sophomore (Ovid Goulbourne, who played for West Virginia and got a cup of coffee with the Ravens). Sal’s family was mad and didn’t want him to sit behind Ovid for three years, but he stayed at Easton for the rest of the year. That included him making Easton’s lineup at 145 for a team that won state duals. He transferred to Bethlehem Catholic to play football as a junior and spent his whole junior year there. You know this was a long time ago, because Bethlehem Catholic wrestling was terrible. He played football as senior at Becahi, then dropped from Catholic school and re-enrolled at Easton. Obviously he wrestled 160 that winter. That’s a case of a kid going back to his hometown school, in what was admittedly a bizarre situation (driven mostly by his old man).
The difference with Sal and Pacchioli is Easton tried to block the Nazareth transfer - Pacchioli basically stopped coming to school after football season and wasn’t on track to graduate, and was trying to play at Nazareth because they had a pitcher who was getting drafted. The litigation that ensued got ugly, and I think D11 just washed their hands of it after that.
You are much more inform on District 11 and particularly Easton than me. I just see things from outside and have a nephew who coached with some inside on NDGP program.
Maybe you can clear something up that I heard years ago. Did Matt Millen live in Easton district? I always heard that his son's situation was argued by another school. ??
Fabulous question! The answer is, I don’t know? The Millen’s lived on this big compound out in kind of the middle of nowhere. Easton School District used to include the Borough of Riegelsville, which is down 611 south of the city - the Millens lived on a tract of old farm land outside of Riegelsville. There is a border somewhere between Riegelsville and Durham township, which would send their kids to Palisades. I always heard complaints that the Millens lived on the wrong side of the border - when they built the house it was just clearing cornfields, I’m sure you needed a surveyor to go out and actually tell you where the line was - but I never actually heard resolution or that it was pursued by anybody. He’s another one who started at Bethlehem Catholic (freshman year) then left because he wanted to be more serious about wrestling. Also, Riegelsville left the Easton school district and became part of Palisades a couple years ago, so it would be moot now.
The Millen thing kind of reminds me of years earlier when they were building all of those houses in Palmer Township in the ‘90s that stretched up 248, one of those houses was purchased by either the Vitales or Madsens when their kids were in elementary/middle school (can’t remember which family, I’m getting old) who had been living in Easton. Buy a brand new house, move in, everything is great. Later that summer they get an enrollment letter that they still haven’t enrolled their kids at Nazareth schools and needed to do so ASAP. They had no idea that the development was build with the line between Easton and Nazareth running right through it and they’d moved sides. Obviously the brothers were very good high school wrestlers, but not at the school they originally intended.
I believe that Bouzakis and Kunstek fall under different rules.
Kunstek was presumed eligible for the regular season, but ineligible for postseason because he transferred after the start of sophomore year. He would have had to appeal the postseason ban based on the PIAA rules (exceptions are narrow). My guess was this was the result if thst appeal
Bouzakis was presumed eligible because he transferred before the start of sophomore year, unless the transfer was challenged found to be for athletic purposes. We all know that it was (several friends said he came to "try out" their teams/coaches before settling on NDGP).
I'm not making a value judgement, just explaining my understanding of how these turned out quite differently.
Kunstek was presumed eligible for the regular season, but ineligible for postseason because he transferred after the start of sophomore year. He would have had to appeal the postseason ban based on the PIAA rules (exceptions are narrow). My guess was this was the result if thst appeal
Bouzakis was presumed eligible because he transferred before the start of sophomore year, unless the transfer was challenged found to be for athletic purposes. We all know that it was (several friends said he came to "try out" their teams/coaches before settling on NDGP).
I'm not making a value judgement, just explaining my understanding of how these turned out quite differently.
Someone on FB brought up West Perry as probably the top homegrown team in the last 2 years. I can't think of any other.
Benton is home grown. Of the current team, I know of one kid on varsity that moved in during MS. On JH they have a kid that will be a stud coming up that moved in from Colorado but his Dad is from Benton and moved back after retiring from the military. Everyone points to Zain transfering to Benton but his family still lives there.
Montgomery on the otherhand recruited their 16 yr old freshman 107 and 114 lbers from other districts.
Every top program has transfers and a club feeder.
AAA-
1. Becca (Reload yearly, kids from all over D11) red Hawk
2. Nazareth (got studs who don’t even live in the district, live with coaches) dark knights used to be
3. Connelsville (Petrovich and a few other move ins) not sure
4. Wayneesburg (Simon lives in pa during the season and then in Louisana, Welsh never lived in the district, church from west green
5. CR South (Sement from NJ, a few other move ins)
AA
1. ND (laughable) lost boys is the feeder
2. Faith (Around 25-30 above average wrestlers all transfer within the last 2-3 years) lions den is the feeder
Saucon VAlley (2-3 move ins) Grit is the feeder
Chest nut ridge (best wrestler mall moved in, 3-4 others) not sure
Mcdevitt (feeder system is naummen room)
Burrell (always have kids who pay cheap school tax and attend for wrestling purposes. Very similar to Reynolds) Wrestling factory
AAA-
1. Becca (Reload yearly, kids from all over D11) red Hawk
2. Nazareth (got studs who don’t even live in the district, live with coaches) dark knights used to be
3. Connelsville (Petrovich and a few other move ins) not sure
4. Wayneesburg (Simon lives in pa during the season and then in Louisana, Welsh never lived in the district, church from west green
5. CR South (Sement from NJ, a few other move ins)
AA
1. ND (laughable) lost boys is the feeder
2. Faith (Around 25-30 above average wrestlers all transfer within the last 2-3 years) lions den is the feeder
Saucon VAlley (2-3 move ins) Grit is the feeder
Chest nut ridge (best wrestler mall moved in, 3-4 others) not sure
Mcdevitt (feeder system is naummen room)
Burrell (always have kids who pay cheap school tax and attend for wrestling purposes. Very similar to Reynolds) Wrestling factory
Some of the stuff that comes out of your mouth is laughable.
1. Lost Boys doesn't feed NDGP, and likewise for FCA/Lions Den. These kids are growing up on national dual teams together, and parents talk and play the 'what if we were all on the same HS team together' game. Furthermore, one of the key contributors to FCA incoming kids is basically the parent that runs Team PA, and has his hooks in the better kids in that area.
2. Mull is nowhere even near the best wrestler at Chestnut Ridge--that would be Deputy--but nice try. Don't know much about him, but IIRC he moved in JH, and is more of an above-average type kid
3. Petrovich has been Connellsville since I've ever known him? Where are you getting this information from?
4. Sement moved from NJ well before HS, so it is a moot point.
5. What are you talking about Burrell and cheap school tax? If you own a house in the district--no matter how inexpensive the taxes are--then your kid is legally allowed to go to school there. I know this staff very well, and have personally watched their (better) kids grow up in the area.
Furthermore, regarding the Bouzakis move, he moved before 10th grade, which is legal--so long as no one appeals as athletic intent. If you remember Gibsons (both) did the same thing when they went to McCort, and the younger one was allowed to wrestle (transferred during 9th grade year), and older one had to sit because he was past 10th.
And that is a clown statement to say that 'very few D1 coaches attend PA States'. Are you serious? Do you even GO to the Giant Center? Because if you did, you would count dozens of Coaches running around the arena.
I'm tiring of this 'best kids won't be there' talk. You wrestle who is there. This is PA, there are tough kids everywhere. IIRC, a supposidly-guaranteed 4x PA State Champion got pinned in a tilt a couple years ago--and anything can happen at Hershey. You are short-changing the kids that are competing, and winning titles or placing. Why? Because a couple of schools that tried to cheat the system are suspended? GTFOH.
I will add to your FCA point, the top two assistants are Tom Hontz (former Upper Perk HC) and Weidemoyer. They both have kids on the team who are very good and I am sure that the opportunity for these kids and their friends to wrestle together was a driving factor for them becoming such a powerhouse.
Exactly. Hontz alone is a reason to go to FCA, as I think he is one of the better coaches I've been around. Add in Norley, and they have a great staff that will attract kids. People don't understand that most of these kids been on dual teams together since they were like 8yrs old, and don't want that to end in HS. I just wish they either break out a division for these schools, or force them up a qualification. Huge fan of FCA and what they are doing, but they are just way too loaded for most AA schools. Now some of these parents are taking this as a challenge (trying to beat the BECA's, NDGP, etc) and putting together super-teams in these private schools.
As noted, Sement goes to North not South. Please let me know the "few other move-ins at South?" We have one "move-out" in Mutarelli, although he trained at both CRWA and Malvern from probably 10-11 on, so he took an opportunity to wrestle for a program that has had the chance to be #1 in the country, so pretty much everyone at CRS is rooting for him, including the staff.
You need to stick to D4, even your D11 stuff is way off, let alone talking about D1. And even then, you write stuff like the stuff about Bouzakis and Kunstek without even knowing ANYTHING about the rules. This is how the "dad" fake news rumor mill perpetuates itself - @wrestlingmind said "some" of the stuff is laughable, I'd say most of that rumor mill is laughable.
The Bouzakis and Kunstek situations are totally different.
Kunstek is transferring in AFTER the start of 10th grade. He is AUTOMATICALLY ineligible for the postseason by rule unless granted a waiver that can be granted for a number of reasons (divorce, job relocation, etc). He just found out he lost his waiver (one of the CR South wrestlers he is friends with told me at ETR). If you noticed he wrestled last night - it's the regular season and he can wrestle unless there is a complaint and it is deemed he transferred for athletic intent. I don't agree with the rule, but the rule is clear and has been in place for two years now.
Bouzakis transferred AFTER 9th grade. He is eligible BY RULE for the postseason unless there is a complaint and he is found to have transferred for athletic intent. This would probably be difficult to prove - coming from a private school which probably costs about $40K per year it would be pretty easy to claim financial reasons for most folks. But I don't know the details of the situation.
Again, I'd like to hear who is wrestling for CR South that "moved-in." Unless you're talking about kids who moved in at 10, 11, or 12.
Also...anyone that thinks the Kunstek situation was a cut and dry "he is just returning to his home school" is sorely mistaken. There is way way more to story.
