I watched Matt McCutcheon's match against Studebaker for the second time last night, and noticed that he limped very badly from the mat afterwards. It's been about 20 years since I've drilled spraddles, and clearly remember how painful (and tough on the groin and hamstrings) they can be when cinched up tight on a big guy. I'm really hoping Matt can remain healthy throughout the grind of the Big Ten dual season. As a PSU fan, I really appreciate his big heart and whats he brings to the team. This looks to be his year to secure All-American status, if he can avoid that darn injury bug. Especially with consideration to the fact that Anthony Cassar is waiting in the wings, and will challenge for the 197 spot at some point.....
McCutcheon
- Thread starter rocksteady2971
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...Matt is a warrior and seems to be feeling more comfortable with this weight class every bout...
... I hope he can shake off this result and learn from it ...
... he is our guy at that weight until Cassar proves otherwise ... and that is not a given...
... I hope he can shake off this result and learn from it ...
... he is our guy at that weight until Cassar proves otherwise ... and that is not a given...
Pretty sure it was a Banana Split, not a Spladle. Banana Split (or Split Scissors as Byers called it) is engaged when riding with a single leg in - you lock the leg ride by "figure 4ing" it and reach across bottom wrestlers hip locking onto leg....roll back. Bottom wrestler's head will be facing away from pinning wrestler. In a Spladle, bottom wtestler's head is on inside toward top wrestler. Also, the "leg on leg" bar is over the back of bottom wrestler's knee, not a "figure 4" on the leg. A Banana Split is engaged from a single leg in hip-ride (Grapevine when you reach across to arm - Banana Split when reach across to leg). Spladle typically engaged when opponent has your leg and you reach over their back to a bar-hold at the outside knee...when you roll back, you drive you leg deeper behind/between opponents legs and then drape it over leg at knee and push down-and-out. The "Split" motion is more-or-less the same, but I would say a Banana Split puts even more strain on crotch/hamstrings as a "Figure 4" on the leg is a much tighter leg-bar providing even more leverage on the "Split" action of the pinning wrestler (especially given the upper-body and leg strength of 97 pounders). A very painful move even for super flexible guys.
Thanks for the technical clarity Franklin. Old-timers like myself don't get on the mat very often to go over wrestling moves anymore (lol). That one in particular brought back some very painful memories. I think I pulled my groin just watching the live stream! Let's hope that Matt doesn't have any lingering physical effects from it, and continues to wrestle tough as nails.
I saw him limping off too. I hate to say it but I jumped right to last year with his lower back issues and was praying that this did not in any way trigger any of those symptoms.
He is the guy, I agree and I saw Friday night's match as a positive, he did get in on 4 ankle shots, and Sunday as a just a bad example of getting caught and certainly a bad loss given he had beat the guy already once. Learn from both and move forward.
Matt does not have a sexy style or big move approach but he has accepted some massive challenges and seems to maximize his opportunities. In this lineup, with the potential crazy greatness of Zain, Jason and Bo, everything not them seems undesirable, which I find silly (probably because I am much more like Matt than the Big 3).
My question is once he decided to move to 197 and won the spot, is he ahead of, behind or where you would expect him to be given that change? I think that his 11/12 ranking right now put him exactly where he should be at mid-season to be an AA.
He is the guy, I agree and I saw Friday night's match as a positive, he did get in on 4 ankle shots, and Sunday as a just a bad example of getting caught and certainly a bad loss given he had beat the guy already once. Learn from both and move forward.
Matt does not have a sexy style or big move approach but he has accepted some massive challenges and seems to maximize his opportunities. In this lineup, with the potential crazy greatness of Zain, Jason and Bo, everything not them seems undesirable, which I find silly (probably because I am much more like Matt than the Big 3).
My question is once he decided to move to 197 and won the spot, is he ahead of, behind or where you would expect him to be given that change? I think that his 11/12 ranking right now put him exactly where he should be at mid-season to be an AA.
Has anyone associated with the team said anything about this yet? Or are we snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again?
I've seen that move plenty of times, and it's no walk in the park, but I have yet to see anything more than some soreness that goes away within a week. (Plus bruised egos.)
OTOH, I have seen injury from a spladle. Thomas Haines hit it at PA states a few years ago ... poor opponent screaming while flipping over, didn't stop until after being carted off to the hospital. Everybody do yourselves a favor and don't watch that.
This was not nearly that situation.
I've seen that move plenty of times, and it's no walk in the park, but I have yet to see anything more than some soreness that goes away within a week. (Plus bruised egos.)
OTOH, I have seen injury from a spladle. Thomas Haines hit it at PA states a few years ago ... poor opponent screaming while flipping over, didn't stop until after being carted off to the hospital. Everybody do yourselves a favor and don't watch that.
This was not nearly that situation.
Key parts of explanation, for fans' purposes, bolded. Easy to tell which is which by where the opponent's head is. I usually confuse them myself until I remember that.
Has anyone associated with the team said anything about this yet? Or are we snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again?
Nope, rampant and unfounded speculation by someone bored in an airport and the natural negative leanings of my Philly based environment.
Nope, rampant and unfounded speculation by someone bored in an airport and the natural negative leanings of my Philly based environment.
Your point about the stress put on the groin, hamstrings and gluteus maximus complex (and therefore the lower back) is a good one - especially when talking about the force that can be applied to the split by 97 lbers using a Banana Split! Again, because the Banana Split uses a "figure 4" on the leg-on-leg bar, it allows the wrestler to put massive force on the split (the figure 4 is completed by locking your leg over the ankle of "the boot" you have in - this allows you to use the boot-in leg essentially as a fulcrum with the figure-4ing leg pulling down and out using the "boot-in" as hook to hold the leg tightly in place.). Super painful move at any weight-class, but would be excruciating when applied by a 97lber given their upper-body and leg strength using a Banana Split with the leverage advantage of a figure-4 on the leg-on-leg bar.
Do we know for sure that Anthony Cassar will not be able to wrestle this year and Cutch is absolutely "the guy" @ 97?
The easy way to tell the difference is: which leg is top riding with?
Spread eagle is with a standard cross body ride.
Spladle is with "wrong leg in."
Yes, and leg doesn't even have to be "in" on Spladle until roll is executed. I've seen it most often as a defense to a succesful Head-Outside Single shot OR when a bottom wrestler gets caught halfway through a "Switch" and latches onto leg....top wrestler extends leg in-between bottom wrestler's legs while reaching across to knee of bottom wrestler's opposite leg.....and rolls through to Spladle.
if your head is inside on a single and you step behind the leg, in bad form, you can be spladled quite easily. I shoot head inside single to my right (opponents left leg). I pull the leg in, step behind it with my right... if head is down or I don't pull the leg I can get spladled. I often hope that JG never gets sloppy on his customary ride where he traps the ankle. When his opponent tries to stand he could become susceptible. Do wish he would be more successful with his navy when he does bring his guy back to the mat... Actually a nice series of offensive moves when on top and 'sticking the wrong leg in'. You have the move Walsh pulled off on IMAR (albeit without back points) as well...
FYI - you older guys might remember that Andy Matter got pinned in the 2nd round of the 1970 NCAA tournament. He got caught in almost the same position. He was ahead going against a guy from Ok State going into the 3rd period, where the Ok State guy was on top. He threw in a cross-body ride and reached over and caught Andy's arm and pulled him back into the classic guillotine position. Andy tried to hold out but the ref called the pin. A guy who can ride well with the cross-body ride can be tough to get away from. There are several ways to do it, but if the guy gets your leg or arm and turns you over, you're in big trouble.
There it is again - the names on wrestling moves going back to 70s differed in various areas, but I think they have become more standardized. What you call the guillotine, we called a grapevine (had heard it called guillotine as well though). What many now refer to as a grapevine (both legs inside opponent's legs while opponent on back with some type of head-lock and spreading legs as far apart as possible), we would have called a Snow Angel or Double Grapevine (usually just "Double Grapes").
Always notice these move names and how they were used differently regionally back in the 70s, but now seem to be more "standardized". I think guillotine is the name now commonly used for what we called a grapevine (leg-in cross-body ride snatching arm, draping behind head and locking hands/arms around head). Grapevine is now used exclusively to refer to what we would have called a Snow Angel or Double Grapes.
...I was present when Andy got pinned and that was not what happened..
...Andy was actually on top with a cross body going for the guillotine but when he tried to get Lightner's arm behind his head the guy slipped his arm out and trapped Andy's head and arm and pinned Andy...
...Andy was actually on top with a cross body going for the guillotine but when he tried to get Lightner's arm behind his head the guy slipped his arm out and trapped Andy's head and arm and pinned Andy...
Interesting here is an instructional video where they still refer to move as "Grapevine" and put "guillotine" in parentheses as an alternate name - see video & title below:
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I noticed the limping. I was hoping the added muscle mass would help protect him from injury. We'll see how he looks Friday.
I will be glad to see them wrestle off...Suppose to be this week i thought....I love Matt but he is WAYYY too short for 197. Morgan was short but a SUPER athl young man....Matt just works hard...For those who have not seen Cassar he is the real deal when healthy !!!!
Sounds like opponent did Farmer's Roll after he got his arm free. We were always taught the Farmer's Roll as the #1 Defense as soon as you feel legs going in (i.e., reach back with arm on same side as leg is in and reach to top wrestler's far hip.....pull down hard at the same time as you "jump over" latching onto a head-shoulder lock and possibly tying up leg as you come over).
That's not what I remember, and I was standing right next to the mat. But who knows? That was 46 years ago and I don't remember the exact details of matches that I wrestled.
Besides, there is one, and only one, match that everyone remembers from that particular NCAA tournament. If you were there, you know which one I'm talking about.
I've said this before in various threads, I'll support whoever is wearing the blue and white at any given weight. I just can't understand why so many are sure Cassar is the surefire answer at 197. If you really look closely at his credentials, they are limited. IF they wrestle off (has this been officially mentioned anywhere, Other than by spyker?), and IF Cassar beats Cutch, he'll still face some bumps in the road as he gets acclimated to D1 competition. I just feel like certain folks are placing a lot of expectations on a guy who hasn't done a whole lot yet. Time will tell.
I wouldn't read too much into the limping aside from getting his groin muscles and nuts stretched to extreme pain. As long as he didn't pull groin muscle, I would think he'll be okay.....aside from the height and range issues.
...the match you are asking about was - of course - Owings beating Gable 13-9 ... I was sitting in the front row during the match ... I asked Owings to autograph my program after the match and still have it ... Pascal Perri was the referee ...
...also, back then you had to lose to a finalist to be eligible to wrestle back ... after beating Andy, Lightner lost his next bout to Oregon State's Vandehy - who did not make the finals ... therefore neither Andy nor Lightner placed...
...also, back then you had to lose to a finalist to be eligible to wrestle back ... after beating Andy, Lightner lost his next bout to Oregon State's Vandehy - who did not make the finals ... therefore neither Andy nor Lightner placed...
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Cassar has limited credentials, but I'm guessing some of the hope is what the eyes tell you. He is big and if you watched his short freetyle run a couple of years ago you saw his speed. Big and fast mixed with the coaching of Olympic Gold medalists around his size have to make you think he could show up ready to wrestle. Cutch has a huge heart and has done very well imo. Cassar would have to be considerably better to make a switch. Is he? I would at the least like to see Cassar wrestle in an open just to see how he looks.
Because everybody's favorite player is the backup QB.
Below is Cassar's entire college career. Tons of potential based upon his freestyle success, but in folk hasn't beaten anybody to make someone rational think he's an immediate All-American -- and this was 2 years and 2 shoulder surgeries ago.
http://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/roster_detail.php?rosterid=312
Cassar is wrestling live right now in practice,,,I don't know why Cael has not let them wrestle off,,,Cassar is very very good !!!! More of a 197 pounder too....
I've always known that as a double grapevine as well. Having one leg in that position was a grapevine and two was a double grapevine. I'm 36 years old for reference.
