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OFFICIAL MBB Thread: @ ILL

Nitty_Lion said:
Yikes. So before the season started you’d have been fine with 6-14 in conference and Pat retaining his job? Coming off of last year?
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No. But the reality is that he won't get fired at 6-14. They will say he won 6 of the last 10 games and that Stevens is coming back, so he gets another year.

Assuming Pat gets there, he will have won more than five Big Ten games in four consecutive years. As bad as it sounds, PSU has never done that.

I don't like it, but it is what it is. He won too many games to get fired last year. I thought Pat should have been able to produce a top 25 team that made a deep run last season, and a bubble team this season.

somehow did not lose this team and the freshmen are beginning to show some promise. If Stevens and Watkins return I think we have a shot again next year. If he goes, Stevens and Watkins are probably gone.

I think it is a judgment call whether to keep him at this point. I'm not sure there is a great answer
 
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TiredOldLion said:
So what was your record and how many championships? Bonafides mean a lot and message boards are notorious for folks claiming any or everything.
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Well I dont know him, his record or championships, maybe he's won tons of games like when Snip outed himself on here proving he just wins with recruited players or maybe he's a bad rec league coach, but the championship thing and record doesnt mean you dont know basketball.

The best coach in the HS league where I coached in MD is about a .500 coach with 0 championships. He rarely has talent that is top half of the league but he has his kids in every game and wins plenty he shouldnt. Guy that currently has the past two league titles is an awful game coach but the best recruiter in the area for publics. He got the best players from 3 neighboring teams and has won because he just has more firepower but games were always closer than they should have been and he lost some games to inferior teams who have good coaches.

I will give PC credit, the past 3 weeks have been an improvement for his team, collectively and individually. He and his staff have also done a better job of scouting, running offensive sets, substituting and using timeouts. They are shooting better because their shots are more in rhythm as part of an offense rather than false motion weave for 20 seconds and then 1v1. Still sloppy TO's and Some bad shot selection but better. I dont necessarily want him back as I dont think he has what it takes from x/o standpoint but he proven to be good at other parts of coaching. If he stays he needs to have an associate head coach who is a serious x/o guy.
 
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TiredOldLion said:
So what was your record and how many championships? Bonafides mean a lot and message boards are notorious for folks claiming any or everything.
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Coached boys and girls at a lot of different levels. The highest level I coached was high school varsity. Took over a team that won 6 games in the previous three seasons combined. Had a below .500 record the first year, made the playoffs the second year, and won over 20 games the third year. Coached at the middle school level and AAU after that and that first year of varsity was the only losing season I ever had. Quite a few of the kids I’ve coached went on to play college ball, with one of the guys I coached starting for VMI this year and one girl I coached is the starting point guard for Michigan State. I’m certainly not taking credit for those players making it in college, but I do have some knowledge of the game. I also coached baseball for years and my son played D-1 baseball (and I do take credit for him since I spent countless hours working with him and teaching him the game).
 
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Penn State has had as good of a recruiting run as it’s ever had the past 4 years. Pat hasn’t even sniffed the NCAA tournament. He will be back because PSU doesn’t care about winning, but he doesn’t deserve to be.
 
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fairfaxlion2 said:
Exactly. Give credit where due. So sick of the weirdos who practically root for losses just to see a new coach.
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Yes. PSU fans should be satisfied with never going to the NCAA tournament, averaging 5-6 conference wins a year, and occasionally making a run at an NIT championship.
 
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ST8FAN said:
Do you continue to support Chambers' coaching performance?
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I've been saying from the moment he shoved Dread that I thought he should be fired. I thought he should have been suspended for 14 days

But giving credit where due, the team is playing really well right now. Which I always want to see. We'll see how many wins he ends up with. I think the reality is that he has a chance to buy himself one more year
 
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bison13 said:
I dont necessarily want him back as I dont think he has what it takes from x/o standpoint but he proven to be good at other parts of coaching. If he stays he needs to have an associate head coach who is a serious x/o guy
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Good summary. Chambers does several head-coaching things well: recruit, motivate, prepare defense. Unfortunately he has not demonstrated the ability to implement an effective offense that does not rely primarily on 3-point shooting. This is a big limitation in the Big 10.

I have not been impressed by his assistant coach selections. I seriously wonder if he would consider an offensive-minded assistant who might get a lot of the credit.
 
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fairfaxlion2 said:
I've been saying from the moment he shoved Dread that I thought he should be fired. I thought he should have been suspended for 14 days

But giving credit where due, the team is playing really well right now. Which I always want to see. We'll see how many wins he ends up with. I think the reality is that he has a chance to buy himself one more year
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I am not happy with the fact that we are rarely (every 10-15 years) a tourney team. I have been following Penn State b-ball since the late 1950’s and outside of a few years with Parkhill as our coach... it has been mainly an exercise in frustration. That being said, I have no desire to start all over again. Our administration has never committed the necessary money to bring in a big name coach. I doubt that they will. At least with Chambers we are bringing in better recruits. In fact, for the first time since I’ve been following the team... we are successfully recruiting Philadelphia. Before I say good bye to Chambers, I want to know that we are going to make a commitment to bring in someone that is going to be able to recruit at a high level. I certainly don’t want to start all over from scratch. If Chambers is forced out... does that mean we lose Stevens, etc. next year. At this point I am willing to give him one more year if that means keeping Steven and the rest of the team.
 
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Yboby said:
Good summary. Chambers does several head-coaching things well: recruit, motivate, prepare defense. Unfortunately he has not demonstrated the ability to implement an effective offense that does not rely primarily on 3-point shooting. This is a big limitation in the Big 10.

I have not been impressed by his assistant coach selections. I seriously wonder if he would consider an offensive-minded assistant who might get a lot of the credit.
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Agree, at this point he should know what he is good at and build from there. Hire a guy who you trust to take over the huddle in a tie game with 2 minutes left and draw up a nice set. Of course maybe PC thinks he is good at that?
 
fbh1 said:
I am not happy with the fact that we are rarely (every 10-15 years) a tourney team. I have been following Penn State b-ball since the late 1950’s and outside of a few years with Parkhill as our coach... it has been mainly an exercise in frustration. That being said, I have no desire to start all over again. Our administration has never committed the necessary money to bring in a big name coach. I doubt that they will. At least with Chambers we are bringing in better recruits. In fact, for the first time since I’ve been following the team... we are successfully recruiting Philadelphia. Before I say good bye to Chambers, I want to know that we are going to make a commitment to bring in someone that is going to be able to recruit at a high level. I certainly don’t want to start all over from scratch. If Chambers is forced out... does that mean we lose Stevens, etc. next year. At this point I am willing to give him one more year if that means keeping Steven and the rest of the team.
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I’m thinking we lose Stevens anyway to play pro ball somewhere, if not the NBA, then Europe. I don’t know where our points will come from without him.
 
fbh1 said:
I am not happy with the fact that we are rarely (every 10-15 years) a tourney team. I have been following Penn State b-ball since the late 1950’s and outside of a few years with Parkhill as our coach... it has been mainly an exercise in frustration. That being said, I have no desire to start all over again. Our administration has never committed the necessary money to bring in a big name coach. I doubt that they will. At least with Chambers we are bringing in better recruits. In fact, for the first time since I’ve been following the team... we are successfully recruiting Philadelphia. Before I say good bye to Chambers, I want to know that we are going to make a commitment to bring in someone that is going to be able to recruit at a high level. I certainly don’t want to start all over from scratch. If Chambers is forced out... does that mean we lose Stevens, etc. next year. At this point I am willing to give him one more year if that means keeping Steven and the rest of the team.
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I agree with you completely. It is nice to talk to someone who has followed this for a long time and sees where we really have been and where we are right now.

I would agree with everything you said. Everyone talks about the Parkhill years like they were the golden years. That's how much of a struggle it has been. Even Parkhill didn't really do that much if you go back and look at the records. His best success was in the A10.

I have the same feeling as you do - starting over would mean a prolonged period of last-place finishes before anything got better. And if we lost the Philadelphia (and now DC) recruiting that Pat has built, in a certain sense that sets us back 15 years. If keeping Pat means Stevens, Watkins, Bolton, Dread, Harrar, and Jones would all come back, I think we should give him one more year. On the flip side, I think that unfortunately if we lose almost any of them after this year, things could get really bad again next year. And at that point, it is like we start over either way.
 
fairfaxlion2 said:
With games against Illinois and Rutgers still remaining, Pat should get a minimum of 6 wins in the conference. If he gets more than that, it means he beats either of Maryland or Wisconsin.

If he ends with 5 wins or less PSU should still make a change
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No!!!! Year nine is Pat’s year to breakout. Should be a sweet ride.
 
Watching the team have success is fun. I like that they're playing well. But it shows the expectations were appropriate and this is another underachieving year. Last year, the team was an NCAA tournament caliber team and they proved it with how they finished. They just weren't good enough when it mattered. Same this year on a different level. The way they are playing, they should be in the mix for an NCAA tournament bid. They're not because of the stretches of extremely bad basketball from December through January. The schedule certainly had something to do with it. But the excuses have to end at some point for Chambers. If we end up with 6 or 7 conference wins, we're basically 3-4 wins away from the NCAA tournament. There were 3-4 extremely winnable games on the schedule so again it feels like we.re close but we're really just in the same spot year after year. Anyway, I hope we can ride this momentum into the B1G tournament and make a run. They look like a confident group which is good to see.
 
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A win over MD on Wednesday and Penn State May very well be the hottest team in the B10.
 
Nitty_Lion said:
Why does Lamar insist on keep jacking up 3s? He’s 20% this year. If chambers were competent he’d tell Lamar to stop trying to shoot 3s for a while.
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If you were competent, you wouldn't ask the question. He makes 1 out of 4. True not great % but it opens his drives to the basket which helps him get fouled.
 
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Why not more wins? Easy, Tony Carr left, Shep Garner graduated, and Mike Watkins missed 10-12 games to start season. Furthermore, Watkins has been hampered by fatigue caused by drugs he is taking. At times, he has 3 freshmen starting.
 
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psu1969a said:
Why not more wins? Easy, Tony Carr left, Shep Garner graduated, and Mike Watkins missed 10-12 games to start season. Furthermore, Watkins has been hampered by fatigue caused by drugs he is taking. At times, he has 3 freshmen starting.
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Regardless Pat should have won more games. Clearly this is a top 60 team and Pat failed to get them playing like one soon enough. They ruined their NCAA hopes before December 1st, which is sort of unbelievable.

DePaul and Bradley were ridiculous and inexcusable losses.

Indiana, NC State, Minnesota, Rutgers and Purdue all should have been wins.

That is the difference between 18-9 and 11-16. Pat didn't do a great job this year to say the least.
 
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psu1969a said:
Why not more wins? Easy, Tony Carr left, Shep Garner graduated, and Mike Watkins missed 10-12 games to start season. Furthermore, Watkins has been hampered by fatigue caused by drugs he is taking. At times, he has 3 freshmen starting.
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Thank you. Finally a voice of reason. With just the addition of Carr this would have been a very strong team with the ability to bring the freshman along slowly. Who would have thought Carr would have left after two years. I don't think that was a great decision on his part as I think he's playing in Europe now but none of us know his personal situation so maybe it was best for him.
 
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fairfaxlion2 said:
Regardless Pat should have won more games. Clearly this is a top 60 team and Pat failed to get them playing like one soon enough. They ruined their NCAA hopes before December 1st, which is sort of unbelievable.

DePaul and Bradley were ridiculous and inexcusable losses.

Indiana, NC State, Minnesota, Rutgers and Purdue all should have been wins.

That is the difference between 18-9 and 11-16. Pat didn't do a great job this year to say the least.
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Pat did not do a good job. WOW! Of course some of those ,early games were winnable as were a few conference games. As I stated, you lose Carr and Watkins. Start 2/3 freshman guards and you expect him to win, win, win. I didn't see the almighty DUKE win the other night (ha ha ha)
 
psu1969a said:
Pat did not do a good job. WOW! Of course some of those ,early games were winnable as were a few conference games. As I stated, you lose Carr and Watkins. Start 2/3 freshman guards and you expect him to win, win, win. I didn't see the almighty DUKE win the other night (ha ha ha)
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All of the games I listed should have been wins with the personnel we did have. We lost most of them because Pat got out-schemed in crunch time. A few due to free throws. We didn't need Tony Carr to win those
 
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fairfaxlion2 said:
All of the games I listed should have been wins with the personnel we did have. We lost most of them because Pat got out-schemed in crunch time. A few due to free throws. We didn't need Tony Carr to win those
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Of course we could have won some, if not all of those games. Coaches fault if freshman misses shots, losses ball, fouls, misses free throws, etc.. Wait maybe Carr MOST LIKELY WOULD NOT have done those things that is my point. Can not blame turnovers and missed foul shots on the Coach.
 
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Regardless of whether he should be back, I do not think there is much of a chance of PC being fired at season's end.

What I'm hoping for is one of our billion guards to leave due to competition for PT (Kasatkin, Jones?) opening up our over-signing so Mike can come back. Although, honestly, I see Mike at PSU next year as his #3 option behind going pro in Europe and grad-transfering to a gauranteed NCAA team (aka a "blue-blood").
 
psu1969a said:
Of course we could have won some, if not all of those games. Coaches fault if freshman misses shots, losses ball, fouls, misses free throws, etc.. Wait maybe Carr MOST LIKELY WOULD NOT have done those things that is my point. Can not blame turnovers and missed foul shots on the Coach.
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Pat should have won all of those games with the current personnel. If Carr was here this year, Pat should have been competing with Michigan for the league title and ranked in the top 10 right now.

Would he have accomplished this? I don't know how confident I am.
 
psuguy43 said:
Regardless of whether he should be back, I do not think there is much of a chance of PC being fired at season's end.

What I'm hoping for is one of our billion guards to leave due to competition for PT (Kasatkin, Jones?) opening up our over-signing so Mike can come back. Although, honestly, I see Mike at PSU next year as his #3 option behind going pro in Europe and grad-transfering to a gauranteed NCAA team (aka a "blue-blood").
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Is there reason to believe that Mike will definitely graduate this spring/summer, and thus eligible to grad transfer?
 
psuguy43 said:
Regardless of whether he should be back, I do not think there is much of a chance of PC being fired at season's end.

What I'm hoping for is one of our billion guards to leave due to competition for PT (Kasatkin, Jones?) opening up our over-signing so Mike can come back. Although, honestly, I see Mike at PSU next year as his #3 option behind going pro in Europe and grad-transfering to a gauranteed NCAA team (aka a "blue-blood").
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I think Mike would stay here over grad-transferring.
 
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