OT: 2018 Phillies Thread.....

[Victor E. Bell]

It blows my mind that the Phillies are letting this one go. Prospects are great as trade bait but have almost zero other short to medium term value. Maybe in 5 years some of these guys turn out to be decent but the vast majority will fizzle out. Can’t believe you let him go to LA. If he goes to the Dodgers, you’re not getting him next year.

And while I’m at it, I don’t want Harper. I have a strangely coincidental common group of friends. He’s a cancer. Good player, but 100% all about himself. Poor teammate. When it comes to available players, you need to not take any chances and land machado.

I want to like Harper. He works hard but I hated the gold shoes, all the bravado. I liked that he stood up to Papelbon even though a) Harper was wrong and b) Papelbon would have kicked his ass but I thought Pap was out of line too (and I never liked him.) That dress-down should happen behind closed doors. I can't get on the Harper train either. He's going to break the bank and is not a "Philly guy" whatever that means to fans. Watch the 08 recap they did the other night. There was not a Harper on that team.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

It blows my mind that the Phillies are letting this one go.

So assuming Manny is a Trolley Dodger, what are the Phils going to do then? Will anything happen? No news is not good news with this club. They are missing a few pieces and are stuck with at least one they married.

 

[LundyPSU]

So assuming Manny is a Trolley Dodger, what are the Phils going to do then? Will anything happen? No news is not good news with this club. They are missing a few pieces and are stuck with at least one they married.

Supposedly, they are still interesting in Moustakis and the SS from the Twins. I don't get Moustakis, but the SS makes some sense. Desperately need offense at SS and also consistently in RF.

 

[LundyPSU]

One last point. Let the starting All Star rosters be a guide. The AL has one starting player 30 or over and the NL has three. Matt Kemp has been Lazarus this year and Crawford and Markakis started as well with Markakis probably being a bit of a surprise as well. So, just for this year, it tells you that the most productive players (at least if vote equals best players) are younger players. Could Trout, Manny, and Harper be the guys who produce well into their mid 30’s and beyond? Sure they could. But if they aren’t and the younger players say age 30 and below are the games better players, then signing these guys even at this age carries a lot of risk given their financial cost.

I get it. My point is still that give a LT deal to 26 year old elite player is much better than a 30 year old. We'll see if there are 10 year deals. Maybe it is higher annual pay with shorter duration (5-7 years). I also put a premium on SS/3B vs OF. Wish that Manny wanted to play 3B where he is Gold Glove. At SS, he is not.

 

[mrtailgate]

I get it. My point is still that give a LT deal to 26 year old elite player is much better than a 30 year old. We'll see if there are 10 year deals. Maybe it is higher annual pay with shorter duration (5-7 years). I also put a premium on SS/3B vs OF. Wish that Manny wanted to play 3B where he is Gold Glove. At SS, he is not.

The “good” thing is that most of the time the player signs for the most money. The Players Association message that signing for the highest contract raises all players boats has largely been followed across the board. You had a Cliff Lee leave money on the table years ago, but that’s not surprising given that Lee was always hard to figure out anyway and beat to a different drum. So, I fully expect that the Phillies will outbid other’s and land one of these guys in this offseason. Listen, I agree with signing Manny. They have the budget, it makes sense, and I’d rather the money go in Manny’s pocket than Middleton’s to be honest. Betting on Manny ain’t the worst thing one can do. But there is an alternative in signing say a lesser guy and a starter or say a couple of high quality stud pen guys if they are out there (say someone like an Andrew Miller or of that pedigree). The alternative might give them a better salary flexibility while still improving.

But a strategy of team construction focused on signing BOTH Harper and Machado (even though I don’t believe this is real) doesn’t seem to be the wisest long term course when you have say upwards to $90m sunk into just two players. You will either lose other good players at some point when it’s time for them to get paid or not have the level of farm production players to supplement the studs to win.

Next March, I do expect we see a stud somewhere on that team though.

 

[bmw199]

But a strategy of team construction focused on signing BOTH Harper and Machado (even though I don’t believe this is real)

The rumors around Middleton are that it is very real. I would not be dissapointed at all. I would love to see them move Santana if they do sign both and move Rhys to 1st.

not have the level of farm production players to supplement the studs to win.

^^What does that have to do with signing big players? Because you lose draft picks? The phils first round picks outside of Nola are hit or miss anyway. Two generational talents? Yes please.

 

[kgilbert78]

A couple of pix from the AAA All Star Game:

 

[sluggo72]

Manny Machado deal between Orioles, Dodgers may have hit a snag
Steve Phillips of MLB Network Radio reports that one or more of the prospects headed from the Dodgers to the Orioles in the Manny Machado deal have issues with their physicals. As a result, the trade may have hit a snag and the door may be open for other clubs. So far, it appears that Phillips is the only one reporting this, but things have otherwise been quiet on the Machado front since last night’s news.

According to Fancred’s Jon Heyman, Dodgers outfield prospect Yusniel Diaz is believed to be the centerpiece of the deal. The Dodgers apparently prefer to hold on to pitching prospect Dustin May and middle infield prospect Gavin Lux.

The first-place Dodgers have been playing Chris Taylor at shortstop since Corey Seager went down with a season-ending injury. The club has also gotten minimal production out of

second base, which has mostly been handled by Logan Forsythe and Chase Utley. Adding Machado to play shortstop would allow Taylor to move over to second base.

Machado, 26, hit .315/.387/.575 with 24 home runs, 65 RBI, 48 runs scored, and eight stolen bases in 413 plate appearances in the first half. Defensive metrics have rated his defense at shortstop as subpar, uncharacteristically
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...ers-may-have-hit-a-snag/ar-AAAgGfG?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[LundyPSU]

Sounds like the Orioles have a history of finding problems with physicals

 

[mrtailgate]

The rumors around Middleton are that it is very real. I would not be dissapointed at all. I would love to see them move Santana if they do sign both and move Rhys to 1st.

^^What does that have to do with signing big players? Because you lose draft picks? The phils first round picks outside of Nola are hit or miss anyway. Two generational talents? Yes please.

No, what I was saying was if you don’t have good cheap talent and you are top heavy with salary required for say Harper and Manny, you won’t be successful. So, unless your farm is productive during that period to offset big salaries, you won’t be successful.

 

[bmw199]

No, what I was saying was if you don’t have good cheap talent and you are top heavy with salary required for say Harper and Manny, you won’t be successful. So, unless your farm is productive during that period to offset big salaries, you won’t be successful.

Well stocked with arms, not so much bats. Generational players don't often become free agents in their mid twenties.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Machado trade to the Dodgers became official tonight. The Dodgers gave up 5 prospects for Machado.

 

[LundyPSU]

Well stocked with arms, not so much bats. Generational players don't often become free agents in their mid twenties.

Completely agree. Also agree about complimentary players being filled through role players or young players. Machado just turned 26 and Harper will turn 26 later this year.

 

[LundyPSU]

Phil's still need amajor offensive upgrade at SS and RF. SP has carried them so far. Have to believe that will slip some in 2nd half. Need the offense to improve to contend. Bullpen has been much better lately but still need help there, too.

 

[kgilbert78]

Phil's still need amajor offensive upgrade at SS and RF. SP has carried them so far. Have to believe that will slip some in 2nd half. Need the offense to improve to contend. Bullpen has been much better lately but still need help there, too.

And they probably won't get that from the farm, unless Goins is the answer at short and Meneses can play right (he played there on Tuesday but was at first Monday and Wednesday. Even there, the question will be if they can hit big league pitching.

 

[LundyPSU]

And they probably won't get that from the farm, unless Goins is the answer at short and Meneses can play right (he played there on Tuesday but was at first Monday and Wednesday. Even there, the question will be if they can hit big league pitching.

No answers this year. Don't think either of those are answers any year. Hasely has a chance in the next year or two.

 

[psrurock]

Someone with better baseball knowledge than me answer this question. Why is Santana a 207 hitter batting leadoff. Is Kepler trying to lose these games.

 

[dicemen99]

Relayers favorite player with an unforced error to put Velazquez in a tough spot. Hope he can get out of it. Between him and Walding you wonder that the Phillies can't do any better on the bench. More critical than you think if in the playoffs.

 

[dicemen99]

And Velazquez gets out of it. When he's on, he's on.

 

[Relayer]

Relayers favorite player with an unforced error to put Velazquez in a tough spot. Hope he can get out of it. Between him and Walding you wonder that the Phillies can't do any better on the bench. More critical than you think if in the playoffs.

You must mean that minor leaguer Valentin. Way to look at strike 3, he stinks.

 

[dicemen99]

Someone with better baseball knowledge than me answer this question. Why is Santana a 207 hitter batting leadoff. Is Kepler trying to lose these games.

Because he gets on base. Which you have to do to score runs. They don't award extra runs if your BA is high.

Santana has also been vastly more productive in his career from July on and is heating up a bit. With Hernandez out, give me a better option. Valentin?

He might not have the most favorable Q rating among baseball fans, but the guy is smart and not afraid to think out of the box. Everyone makes mistakes, but smart guys learn from them and improve.

Guy is in a fish bowl where a lot of people just want to see him fail and are waiting to pounce. Just listen to the arrogant disdain that bleeds through the radio every time Bob Cooney has to talk about the Phillies. Would love for Kapler to shove it right up his a#$. So far, he has.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Hoskins with a 3-run blast in the bottom of the 5th, enables the Phils to tie it up, 4-4, against the Dodgers.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

And then Odubel goes yard for a solo HR, to give the Phils the lead, 5-4. That's the last pitch for Stripling.

 

[NittPicker]

After the first couple innings I was thinking "here we go again". I'm happy to be wrong. Nice recovery to take a 5-4 lead against a pitcher who has been excellent as of late. Time for the bullpen to show what it's made of.

 

[psrurock]

Still would take Chase for Gabe in a minute. Chase would have been a great player manager. That being said Gabe is having a decent start with this club, just not a fan of micro managing. Yea he is giving players more opportunities to play just not entire games. Earn your playing time.

 

[NittPicker]

Geez Odubel. Catch the ball and throw it in. Don't take a couple of hops waiting to see if the runner is really going to run toward home. I can still hear my coach yelling, "Make the throw immediately!! You can't make an out standing in the outfield holding the ball!!"

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Alfaro with a passed ball in the top of the 9th, with the based loaded, to allow the Dodgers to go up 6-5. He was lazy on the play -- never moved his feet or body, and was late moving his glove. Seranthony, uncharacteristically, had control problems, and walked 3 batters in the inning. Gabe just came out to make a pitching change.

 

[mrtailgate]

This nonsense with the catchers not being able to catch or block balls is ridiculous.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

So Garcia is the new relief pitcher. Kemp greets him with a single to left, to put the Dodgers up 7-5. Still bases loaded, and 1 out.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Franco takes Jansen's 1st pitch to the yard, so it's 7-6, Dodgers, in the bottom of the 9th.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Kingery pops out, on a 3-2 count. Knapp strikes out on a high outside pitch (that he tried to check on), on a 3-2 count. Alfaro comes up with 2 outs. He's swinging for the fences, and misses the first two pitches. He takes, to make it 1-2. Then he misses again, so it's a 7-6 loss to the Dodgers. The Phils gave the game away in the top of the 9th.

 

[NittPicker]

It makes me wonder why Kapler felt it was so important to get Dominguez some work in the final game of the Padres doubleheader. He was brought in for the final out with a five run lead and the bases empty. Did that affect Seranthony tonight and lead to his control problems? I know those guys are in good shape but why use an arm when it isn't necessary?

 

[Grant Green]

Still would take Chase for Gabe in a minute. Chase would have been a great player manager.

you would take a guy with zero managing/ coaching experience over someone who took
a team from worst to first in their division?
I love Chase as a player, but who says he would be any good as a manager?

 

[LundyPSU]

Looks like starting pitching has been a struggle since the break. Hope they can put it back together for a strong second half. RP has been much better overall as of late, but still not overly confident with this group. Neshek return has helped

 

[Delco Lion]

Chase's standing O.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelp...ding-ovation-phillies-fans-citizens-bank-park

 

[PSUcup1]

Another ball gets away from the catcher. Costs them a run

Maddening

 

[NittPicker]

Herrera is doing more harm than good. His half assed attempt to throw out Machado at the plate last night cost a run. Tonight he called off the infielder who then yielded to him. Odubel stops and lets the ball fall to the ground. He may be an exciting player but he's also a bonehead.

 

[PSUcup1]

Herrera is doing more harm than good. His half assed attempt to throw out Machado at the plate last night cost a run. Tonight he call off the infielder who then yielded to him then Odubel stops and lets the ball fall to the ground. He may be an exciting player but he's also a bonehead.

Ugh. I missed that. Just turned the game on before the run scored

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Herrera is doing more harm than good. His half assed attempt to throw out Machado at the plate last night cost a run. Tonight he called off the infielder who then yielded to him. Odubel stops and lets the ball fall to the ground. He may be an exciting player but he's also a bonehead.

A few things here.

First, that pop fly was the centerfielder's ball. @Relayer's favorite Phillie, Jesmuel Valentin, is playing SS tonight. You could see on the replay that Herrera was calling all the way for the ball, but Valentin did not move out of the way until the last second. The fault was not with Herrera on that play, IMHO.

Second, on the tag-up by Machado last night, Herrera didn't "half ass" his throw to the play. It seemed to me that he had trouble getting a grip on the ball, so he did take an extra step on the play. As for the throw, I believe Herrera had some bad luck on it. I may be wrong, but it seemed to me that the ball hit the front half of the pitching mound enroute to Alfaro, and that cut the speed of the throw. Had the throw been to the 3rd-base-side of home plate, Machado may have been out. It certainly would have been close.

 

[PSUcup1]

That ball has to be caught. Just an awful play by hoskins