OT: Game of Thrones S8E4 - 'The Last of the Starks' - Thread Discussion - Beware of Spoilers...

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Like you said, "all plausible". Heck, in a show of magic, dragons, giants and witch-craft sorcery, I guess "anything" is "plausible".

Not arguing with you. I agree with you.

But like someone else mentioned above, even in a show of magic, dragons, giants, Night Kings, 3-eyed ravens ..... they have to keep with the "reality of their own boundaries". So, wouldn't Daario and his army of 2,000 Second Sons need boats to cross over to Westeros?? I thought that was one of Danny's issues, was securing boats to get her armies over to Westeros???? And right now, technically by GOT's standards, the only one who would have a large enough fleet to transport 2,000 + thier horses would be Jaara Greyjoy. And how would Jaara know about Daario??

Good points, but he’s had a lot of time to acquire/make boats. Or maybe get with Yara who met Dany in a previous season with Theon, so she knows about Daario and Mereen.

 

[Woodpecker]

So the dragons learned inbreeding from the Targs too?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

So the dragons learned inbreeding from the Targs too?

How do we know they’re inbred? They hatched from three different eggs - could have different parents.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I think she may not even realize there are more dragons out there. At some point when the draqgons were off doing who knows what, they had more. That's why the show had no issue killing one off.

Love the show, but there is obviously a difference between fantasy and stupidity. They had a well organized plan to fight the dead, but they sail and fly right into an ambush at Kings Dragon like idiots, and lost a fleet and a dragon? And why are non-fighters even on the ships? That was just stupid and pretty unbelievable. How could you not see them or have any intel?

And they are all sitting ducks outside the wall, the dragon is just sitting there eating, and Cersei- does nothing?

I'm not sure about timelines, but there was no way to produce all those Stingers and Crossbows in the amount of time they had. But now that they know they exist- It would be easy to take them out- just do it at night. Stealth mission with fire along the wall. Which they obviously won't do.

The comet from S2 signaled the return of dragons - could be there are more out there, but I took it to mean Dany and her dragons. Guess we’ll see!

 

[dbsteel]

Your points are some of the ones I stated as well.

1. "There is a difference between fantasy and stupidity" is a great line and should almost be used as the aggregate title for season 8.
> I agree with what someone stated above that even in fantasy you have to keep a consistency with the "reality of that fantasy". For example, this fantasy deals with swords, dragons, spears, arrows.... you could not have Jon Snow riding into Kings Landing next week with an M-16.
> But along the lines of keeping it real within their boundaries. There is just stupidity in the last few seasons that makes the level of stupidity seem unbelievable.

For example, just casually taking a nice sail into Kings Landing bay with key figures such as Tyrion on board. We've already seen that green fire used on Stannis in Kings Landing bay. And they know Cersie used the green fire to destroy half the city and her enemies......... so why would they think Cersie green fire-bombing Kings Landing Bay would be off the table???? Seems like on the chance of that happening sailing into KL Bay is a risky move.

Also the story line writing holes are getting more and more questionable and obvious. For example 2, they tell Danny that per their spies/sources they know Cersei has the Golden Co. army. So they get advance intel that Cersei has aligned with the Golden Co, but they do NOT get advance intel that Euron now has a fleet of super-sized stealth medievil battleships with super-sized spear guns .... oh that can also be used to kill dragons........... That intel just happened to not get mentioned???

Plus, a few seasons ago Bronn already shot one of her dragons with a similar weapon. So this is technology that she has already seen used before by the Lannisters. Would she not think ahead that they maybe just might have produced more of those super-sized spears???

I agree with it all- why are all these important non fighting types even on the ship at all. Wouldn't it be all fighters? And they do seem to have pretty selective Intel.

 

[scottpsurules]

Well that was painful catching up, this thread most certainly resembles a typical football in-game thread.....

 

[rudedude]

The end of the trailer seems to imply that Euron is seeing something unexpected.... which certainly could be another dragon.

This is what Euron is seeing in the preview

 

[cntblvitsbutter]

Can also be killed by fire and they had fire on their swords. Not defending the strategy, but they did have a means to kill them.

The dothraki gained that weapon only after Melissandre appeared out of nowhere to light their swords on fire. Before that, they had planned a charge that any one could see was a suicide mission that would only serve to add to the army of the dead.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

The dothraki gained that weapon only after Melissandre appeared out of nowhere to light their swords on fire. Before that, they had planned a charge that any one could see was a suicide mission that would only serve to add to the army of the dead.

That’s a toughy. We could theorize possibly valerian steel but that’s unlikely. We could also theorize many were made of dragon glass like the swords, spears, arrowheads, etc., but it sure didn't look like it. And if so, why the need to light them on fire? Wouldn’t make them more deadly for the dead (which felt really weird to write.). Seems it was just theatrics. Worked though. Millions were psyched at that happening.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

That’s a toughy. We could theorize possibly valerian steel but that’s unlikely. We could also theorize many were made of dragon glass like the swords, spears, arrowheads, etc., but it sure didn't look like it. And if so, why the need to light them on fire? Wouldn’t make them more deadly for the dead (which felt really weird to write.). Seems it was just theatrics. Worked though. Millions were psyched at that happening.

As absurd as some of the tactics/strategy on this show has been this year, there is no way those were just regular weapons. If anything, Jon has beat the hell out of the idea that fire, dragon glass, and Valyrian Steel are the only things that hurt the army of the dead. And we saw Gendry making a sh*t ton of dragon glass weapons. Have to think thier weapons were made of that.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

As absurd as some of the tactics/strategy on this show has been this year, there is no way those were just regular weapons. If anything, Jon has beat the hell out of the idea that fire, dragon glass, and Valyrian Steel are the only things that hurt the army of the dead. And we saw Gendry making a sh*t ton of dragon glass weapons. Have to think thier weapons were made of that.

Hey, I’m just responding to another poster. That’s what I’d have thought too.

So lighting them on fire was a non-verbal pep-talk, I guess. Didn’t look like it. But easier to assume that than a plan of sending Dothraki in without anything that can kill dead...until Melisandre surprises everyone by actually arming them.

This is like angels dancing in the head of a pin in terms of splitting hairs discussing absurdities. Interesting but wasteful.

 

[Langmuir]

Hey, I’m just responding to another poster. That’s what I’d have thought too.

So lighting them on fire was a non-verbal pep-talk, I guess. Didn’t look like it. But easier to assume that than a plan of sending Dothraki in without anything that can kill dead...until Melisandre surprises everyone by actually arming them.

This is like angels dancing in the head of a pin in terms of splitting hairs discussing absurdities. Interesting but wasteful.

The dead are not completely invulnerable from regular attacks, just hard to kill. You can still cut off their legs and then they can't walk...not dead but not as much of a threat. If you cut off their arms they can still bite but again not as much of a threat. The cut off appendages can still move but again not as much of threat. I agree the charge was a stupid move but it is not like they could not harm the army of the dead without special weapons.

 

[lein]

With those scorpions, Dany needs to attack with Drogon on a dark and cloudy night when the marksmen can't aim. From 8:3, it's obvious he can see well enough to attack in horrible flight conditions. That is, if she goes with a conventional attack. Guerrilla-type sabotage attacks would be effective as well, given the depletion of her army. Shes' definitely got enough intel on her side to plan some ambushes and attack from the inside--if she'll listen to anybody.

I wonder if dragons can carry a bolder. if so, fly high enough out of the range and drop bolders on the scorpions

 

[Ranger Dan]

The dothraki gained that weapon only after Melissandre appeared out of nowhere to light their swords on fire. Before that, they had planned a charge that any one could see was a suicide mission that would only serve to add to the army of the dead.

How do you know that they weren’t planning to have their swords lighted on fire?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

BWI D&D/Game of Thrones Club:

From L to R - jdm202, Langmuir, AWS1022,
Ranger Dan, Canuckhal (circa 1982).

 

[Ranger Dan]

BWI D&D/Game of Thrones Club:

From L to R - jdm202, Langmuir, AWS1022,
Ranger Dan, Canuckhal (circa 1982).

Actually, I never played D&D until I went into the service. Was too young to get into most bars, but I should have just caught up on sleep.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Actually, I never played D&D until I went into the service. Was too young to get into most bars, but I should have just caught up on sleep.

In my retro-fantasy, you played D&D with these guys on weekends in jdm’s basement in 1982. Then one of you got kidnapped to the Upside Down.

 

[PA_JOE]

The dead are not completely invulnerable from regular attacks, just hard to kill. You can still cut off their legs and then they can't walk...not dead but not as much of a threat. If you cut off their arms they can still bite but again not as much of a threat. The cut off appendages can still move but again not as much of threat. I agree the charge was a stupid move but it is not like they could not harm the army of the dead without special weapons.

I can’t read this post without thinking of another famous scene:

 

[Ranger Dan]

In my retro-fantasy, you played D&D with these guys on weekends in jdm’s basement in 1982. Then one of you got kidnapped to the Upside Down.

Ok, my fantasies involve naked women, but whatever makes you happy...

 

[lj4heisman1]

As absurd as some of the tactics/strategy on this show has been this year, there is no way those were just regular weapons. If anything, Jon has beat the hell out of the idea that fire, dragon glass, and Valyrian Steel are the only things that hurt the army of the dead. And we saw Gendry making a sh*t ton of dragon glass weapons. Have to think thier weapons were made of that.

wights could be killed with anything, it's only the white walkers that had to be killed with dragonglass or valyrian steel. the dotraki looked like the had their regular"arakhs"as weapons.

It looked cool but otherwise made no sense for that charge, even within this fantasy world

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I wonder if dragons can carry a bolder. if so, fly high enough out of the range and drop bolders on the scorpions

They can. The question is whether that’s the way they go about it, or another way. And whether that includes continuing to make bad decisions.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I can’t read this post without thinking of another famous scene:

View embedded media

Same. That’s exactly what I thought of. So funny.

 

[91Joe95]

I wonder if dragons can carry a bolder. if so, fly high enough out of the range and drop bolders on the scorpions

Is that an African or a European dragon?

 

[NedFromYork]

The dead are not completely invulnerable from regular attacks, just hard to kill. You can still cut off their legs and then they can't walk...not dead but not as much of a threat. If you cut off their arms they can still bite but again not as much of a threat. The cut off appendages can still move but again not as much of threat. I agree the charge was a stupid move but it is not like they could not harm the army of the dead without special weapons.

Wights could be killed by valyrian steel, dragon glass, and FIRE.

 

[dbsteel]

I wonder if dragons can carry a bolder. if so, fly high enough out of the range and drop bolders on the scorpions

Or just fly in at night and torch the wall.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

BWI D&D/Game of Thrones Club:

From L to R - jdm202, Langmuir, AWS1022,
Ranger Dan, Canuckhal (circa 1982).

This is amazing! Can’t believe I just stumbled upon this while falling asleep. Never played D&D or anything like it but I guess I belong in the game of thrones club.

And where did you find this pic? These kids look intense!

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

In my retro-fantasy, you played D&D with these guys on weekends in jdm’s basement in 1982. Then one of you got kidnapped to the Upside Down.

What’s the upside down?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

What’s the upside down?

Oh boy...

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Oh boy...

Sorry, moment of weakness—had a strong sense I shouldn’t have asked that question. Thx

 

[SUPERTODD]

Hey, I’m just responding to another poster. That’s what I’d have thought too.

So lighting them on fire was a non-verbal pep-talk, I guess. Didn’t look like it. But easier to assume that than a plan of sending Dothraki in without anything that can kill dead...until Melisandre surprises everyone by actually arming them.

This is like angels dancing in the head of a pin in terms of splitting hairs discussing absurdities. Interesting but wasteful.

It’s really a lack of research on the part of the show’s writers. Cavalry is not used in that way. In the books the Dothraki were like Mongols. Highly mobile and able to appear in unexpected places. Charging straight at an enemy you can’t see at night? Cavalry charges have worked historically when an enemy has been softened up and then heavy cavalry can break their lines. Sending in light cavalry at an enemy that can not break and will not flee? It made no sense.

If they are going to have a “realistic” ending than the Lannister’s should win the Iron Throne. Dany and Jon are too dumb to be able to defeat them. Apparently their generals are complete idiots and their advisors aren’t much better.

 

[AWS1022]

BWI D&D/Game of Thrones Club:

From L to R - jdm202, Langmuir, AWS1022,
Ranger Dan, Canuckhal (circa 1982).

That’s funny.

 

[psu_83_drummer]

The dead are not completely invulnerable from regular attacks, just hard to kill. You can still cut off their legs and then they can't walk...not dead but not as much of a threat. If you cut off their arms they can still bite but again not as much of a threat. The cut off appendages can still move but again not as much of threat. I agree the charge was a stupid move but it is not like they could not harm the army of the dead without special weapons.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

It’s really a lack of research on the part of the show’s writers. Cavalry is not used in that way. In the books the Dothraki were like Mongols. Highly mobile and able to appear in unexpected places. Charging straight at an enemy you can’t see at night? Cavalry charges have worked historically when an enemy has been softened up and then heavy cavalry can break their lines. Sending in light cavalry at an enemy that can not break and will not flee? It made no sense.

If they are going to have a “realistic” ending than the Lannister’s should win the Iron Throne. Dany and Jon are too dumb to be able to defeat them. Apparently their generals are complete idiots and their advisors aren’t much better.

Good stuff SUPERTOD

Little bit of salt. Little bit of pepper. Little bit of irritation with stupidity.

BPB7
[best post before 7am].

 

[PSU2UNC]

Maybe she’ll find new dragons? 1 large one and 3 smaller ones. Swear I’ve seen that somewhere

Are you referring to the "4 dragons" seen on the sword in the opening credits? If so, I think refers to her three dragons, plus her (mother of dragons). Even if there were other dragon eggs somewhere, it would take a couple of years for them to grow to a (battle) useful size. I believe (according to lore of some cultures in the GoT world) there are still wild dragons somewhere in the far flung reaches world, but I don't see them going on a zoological expedition to find them at this point the show.

 

[Kiber]

Are you referring to the "4 dragons" seen on the sword in the opening credits? If so, I think refers to her three dragons, plus her (mother of dragons). Even if there were other dragon eggs somewhere, it would take a couple of years for them to grow to a (battle) useful size. I believe (according to lore of some cultures in the GoT world) there are still wild dragons somewhere in the far flung reaches world, but I don't see them going on a zoological expedition to find them at this point the show.

I agree. As much as I would love to see a sky full of dragons over Kings Landing this Sunday night, for just a theatrical perspective alone, I just do not see how they can write this into the script with any valid credibility.

Think about it:
1. Danny would need to know these dragons existed in order to go round them up.
2. IF she did know other dragons existed, then why not use them 2 weeks ago when facing the Nights King and The Army Of The Dead???
3. Even if they did exist and she could go get them, wouldn't they be wild??? How could she get them to obey her?? They are not "her children" like these 3 dragons.

But hey, the last 2 seasons the writers have made some very head scratching and questionable decisions. Over the last 2 seasons, things like time-lines, logic, common sense ... have been tossed aside. So, based on the writing over the last 2 seasons, I guess it would be possible for Danny to "disappear" and go "riding off" by herself. As others wonder where she is going, and question if she has gone mad, little do they know she is rounding up the hoard of wild dragons.... as all looks lost for Jon, Tyrion, Greyworm, Sansa, Hound and Arya.... out of the distant sky Danny comes flying in on top of Drogon followed by a squadron of wild dragons taking out Cersei, Q, Euron, and the Mountain ..... why not.

 

[Langmuir]

BWI D&D/Game of Thrones Club:

From L to R - jdm202, Langmuir, AWS1022,
Ranger Dan, Canuckhal (circa 1982).

Haha, I was about that age in 1982 but never played D&D. There were a few kids in my high school that did but I did not hang out with them. I have played several MMORPG's over the years.



I am casting magic missle

 

[BiochemPSU]

Finally caught the episode. I am just "meh" at this point with the pacing and rushed plot. I hate Euron and his role in this. NK or NK/Bran/3ER should have been the final boss. It is what it is.

However, I actually kind of like that they are pushing Dany over the edge. It shows that anyone who really wants the crown or is able to get the crown looses their mind/happiness/soul in the process; it's an unobtainable thing and the pursuit never stops. What you have to do to maintain or obtain the crown steals your humanity, making you a shell of what you formerly were. Probably why John doesn't want it. He was solely focused on humanities' survival and doing what is right in the moment.

I can certainly see Dany and John not making it out of this. Dany goes nuts and has to be stopped, probably by John. John doesn't want to be king or feels guilt for having to stop Dany, so he removes himself from that opportunity (death or exile). Tyrion and Varis are killed and the Starks take over, either by committee or Sansa.

 

[WJL]

Wtf? How is Euron Greyjoy so damn good at sneaking up on people with a fleet of ships? Especially with someone that's in the air riding a dragon? And why didn't she just fly around behind them and light them up?

Or come in from the side? Great opportunity missed.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Not to mention he is talking treason. Didn’t the red woman predict his death? He gone.

I think Varys is toast. His convo with Tyrion suggested to me that Varys is already plotting an assassination attempt against Dany, in hopes that Jon will take the throne. He scoffed at the notion of Jon and Dany ruling jointly.

 

[Kiber]

I think Varys is toast. His convo with Tyrion suggested to me that Varys is already plotting an assassination attempt against Dany, in hopes that Jon will take the throne. He scoffed at the notion of Jon and Dany ruling jointly.

Yea. I agree about Varys being toast. I thought the ending of the conversation between Tyrion & Varys last week ended a little too dramatically. Remember when Tyrion was throwing out alternatives such as a joint ruling between Jon & Danny, but Varys had his mind made up .... As Varys was walking away Tyrion said something like ("I beg you to please reconsider") or something to that effect. I said right then that Tyrion's reaction was a little too dramatic and that was a foreshadowing kiss of death for Varys.