Should be called the Heil Rule!! 
http://www.flowrestling.org/article/54731-ncaa-wrestling-proposes-new-rules#.WPEQp2krKM8
http://www.flowrestling.org/article/54731-ncaa-wrestling-proposes-new-rules#.WPEQp2krKM8
Rule Change Proposal
- Thread starter Nitt Fan
- Start date
I don understand getting rid of the head gear rule. In fact imo it should be enforced even more, all the way down to practice
As much as we like the motto of cauliflower ear being a badge of honor, in reality it's pretty gross. And to say they don't protect the ears is ridiculous. I wore one all the time, practice and matches. Never had it
My best friend was one (probably only) guy who wore everyday in practice at PSU. He never got cauliflower ear.
As much as we like the motto of cauliflower ear being a badge of honor, in reality it's pretty gross. And to say they don't protect the ears is ridiculous. I wore one all the time, practice and matches. Never had it
My best friend was one (probably only) guy who wore everyday in practice at PSU. He never got cauliflower ear.
So, hold on...how is this new rule going to work? Every time somebody goes for the ankles, a three count ensues? Or, does the head have to be down? Or, does the shoulders have to be 90 degrees and THEN the count begins? Or, does the initiatior of the move, have to clear the leg or the ankle while the defender is on his shoulders?
Trying to figure this out.
Trying to figure this out.
Good thing Hail cause he would have lost if the rule were in effect this year....Pinned anyway at least twice...It's the blades of the shoulders....Just saying....
In the rule commentary and on the Iowa board they say that wearing headgear can be worse than not wearing it. Headgear being pulled around can cause damage.
Actually, the rule proposal has nothing to do with defensive pins, but would have likely given Jimmy 2 points for a "takedown," if, after a warning, the ref got to a three count and Heil was still in that position (which he's in a lot).
But you can't really look back and say Heil loses x number of matches he otherwise won because the warning would have, and will, change how he wrestles. In practice, it'll be interesting because if they're awarding two points for a "takedown" for what used to be a scramble from neutral, does the "taken down" wrestler get an escape when they break that position? I'd guess so, but that's odd then because the top wrestler doesn't really have control. But if that's the case, I think the proposed rule robs the top wrestler of incentive to continue to get a real takedown because he already has the two--control merely prevents the E1 point to bottom. And the bottom wrestler who emerges from danger to get control--is that now a reversal since he was "taken down"? Maybe rule would make more sense if they just awarded two back points from neutral and not made any decision about control, since control is still in every other sense undecided at that moment.
I actually like the headgear proposal. I agree that it should be worn at practice, but it should be optional during the matches.
With regards to the weight management proposal, was this a big problem this year? Who would have been affected by the new rules this year? A calendar year seems like pretty stiff penalty.
@tikk10 in the image Flo has on this subject with JG and Heil, you don't see control? I see only JG with a chance to score, and with that leg laced up, looks like control to me.
With regards to the weight management proposal, was this a big problem this year? Who would have been affected by the new rules this year? A calendar year seems like pretty stiff penalty.
@tikk10 in the image Flo has on this subject with JG and Heil, you don't see control? I see only JG with a chance to score, and with that leg laced up, looks like control to me.
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I believe the biggest beneficiary of the "ankle rule" for the Penn State wrestlers will be Jason. He seems to be in that position more than others, and if passed, the stalemates that were being called will turn into a takedown, and much quicker than the stalemates were called.
Good thing Mark wore head gear this year.
Good thing Mark wore head gear this year
.
I think
The rule may mirror that of the Peterson: after completion of the move and points awarded, if the other wrestler gains control or gets to a neutral position, then the other wrestler gets points for a reversal, or an escape.
The rule may mirror that of the Peterson: after completion of the move and points awarded, if the other wrestler gains control or gets to a neutral position, then the other wrestler gets points for a reversal, or an escape.
I believe the biggest beneficiary of the "ankle rule" for the Penn State wrestlers will be Jason. He seems to be in that position more than others, and if passed, the stalemates that were being called will turn into a takedown, and much quicker than the stalemates were called.
Good thing Mark wore head gear this year
Under these rules, Nolf tech falls Kemerer in Iowa city, rather than the 9-4 win.
As a cauliflower ear survivor, I'd have to agree. Once outside wrestling circles, it's viewed in a "County Fair" sort of way - Pig Faced Man, Monkey Girl, Gator Slim with the Alligator Skin, and Cauliflower Ear.
I suppose if you hold a guy for a three count you're demonstrating control but I'm more curious about the implications immediately after from calling it a takedown and not near fall. Because once the bottom guy clears his back both wrestlers are in what we all recognize as scramble with neither wrestler having control, except now there's by definition a bottom guy who will get an escape point less for "escaping" than from exiting the scramble--he's not in as disadvantageous position in a scramble as when top guy is behind him.
Without the headgear, I doubt he gives up the TD. That was exactly the match I thought of when I read the proposal. Do you disagree?I believe the biggest beneficiary of the "ankle rule" for the Penn State wrestlers will be Jason. He seems to be in that position more than others, and if passed, the stalemates that were being called will turn into a takedown, and much quicker than the stalemates were called.
Good thing Mark wore head gear this year
I'm sure most of you have seen this many times like me, but Valencia pulls that very hard and pulls Mark onto his side briefly. Mark has to recover and while he does Valencia improved position and Mark is forced to try a whizzer. It's late in the match and Valencia was being the agressor, so who knows the final outcome, but that violation aided in that TD.
"The committee still recommends the use of ear protection, but it has been proven that ear protection offers no protection when it comes to concussions," Branch said. "In some cases, the ear protection may irritate or be abrasive to the athlete's ears and promote cauliflower ear. We felt our collegiate athletes are mature and educated enough to decide what is best for them and their particular situation."
THIS IS THE DUMBEST THING I'VE READ IN AT LEAST A YEAR. THE BRAIN IS IN FACT NOT FULLY DEVELOPED AT COLLEGE AGE, WHICH IS WHY KIDS MAKE ALL SORTS OF STUPID DECISIONS WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THEIR FUTURE. NOT WEARING A HEADGEAR WILL BE JUST ONE OF THEM. MAYBE MAKE SEATBELTS IN CARS OPTIONAL TOO?
Just dumb!
THIS IS THE DUMBEST THING I'VE READ IN AT LEAST A YEAR. THE BRAIN IS IN FACT NOT FULLY DEVELOPED AT COLLEGE AGE, WHICH IS WHY KIDS MAKE ALL SORTS OF STUPID DECISIONS WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THEIR FUTURE. NOT WEARING A HEADGEAR WILL BE JUST ONE OF THEM. MAYBE MAKE SEATBELTS IN CARS OPTIONAL TOO?
Just dumb!
I could see some potential issues with what you mentioned, but in most cases the guy in Heil's position needs a stalemate or he is giving up TD and maybe more. So if the referee begins his count in this case, Heil probably gives up two trying to get off his back, if not, he will surrender back points as well.
90 degrees says a great deal about what they are trying to accomplish here. Would be difficult to clear by just rocking or slightly shifting. I'm not so sure that exiting the scramble would immediately be an escape in most cases, because earning that point is really very clear.
Disagree.
Many of these guys already wrestle styles where headgear is not required. I'm not going to get into the debate about seat belts with you, do we ban motorcycles altogether then? Parents and coaches should make sure they are looking out for their guys. Spending hours and hours in the room at practice is where most of the damage comes from, not necessarily from the seven minutes in competition. It says optional, meaning they can still wear the gear if they or their parents/coaches still want to.
Well if my memory serves correctly Heil didn't give up two, however that scramble resolved itself.
Agree with Roar that this really benefits Jason Nolf, as if he needed another reward for creativity.
Ahh, I have only seen it the one time as I do not have flo, I thought it was called stalemate. I also agree with Roar about Nolf, are there any PSU guys that it could hurt?
Yep, we disagree on that. No explanation needed as to how it's formed. Not wanting to engage the seatbelt argument, but proffer one of your own regarding motorcycles - so I'll answer that. No, you don't ban motorcycles, but should this same age group be required to wear a helmet? - yes.
Ironically... it'd probably hurt Jimmy if he was coming back. In the kind of scrambles that produce that sequence either guy could find himself in danger seconds apart.
My point is pretty simple. A car without a seat belt is safer than any motorcycle with a helmet. I don't think we should ban motorcycles, I think we should allow others to decide the risks they choose to take. Give the best guidance and advice, but in the end people have different opinions and may choose something we wouldn't. When you look at our military, I don't think age is a valid argument either, but I would agree that young men don't always make the best decisions.
I also question whether that is that dumbest thing you've read in a year, even if you meant since Jan 1
I also question whether that is that dumbest thing you've read in a year, even if you meant since Jan 1
Rolling Year right?My point is pretty simple. A car without a seat belt is safer than any motorcycle with a helmet. I don't think we should ban motorcycles, I think we should allow others to decide the risks they choose to take. Give the best guidance and advice, but in the end people have different opinions and may choose something we wouldn't. When you look at our military, I don't think age is a valid argument either, but I would agree that young men don't always make the best decisions.
I also question whether that is that dumbest thing you've read in a year, even if you meant since Jan 1
Try finding a high level job walking into the interview looking like a freak show. It's something that the 18-23 year old isn't thinking about. Most cauliflower ear comes from wrestling FS/GR by the way where, guess what, "let the kids decide" - no rules on it. It's better for the popularity of wrestling to have these rules in place and not rely on kid judgement. Let's agree to disagree.
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Wow. Smart young man. I like the kid.
He wrestles another way for another kind of thing, but I like his response.
Advantage of no headgear: don't have to pull it off your mouth when you're turning purple.
I think the NF might come into play at times, but might not be a NF because this rule proposal says 90, when a NF is 45 degree. I might agree more if it went to 45 before the count started.
And, it will affect riding time-if the scorekeepers get it right
Over his career Jimmy probably turns 5 losses to wins if he's not wearing headgear.
Retherford was special. From the moment I saw the kid at PIAA's in his soph year, i knew that was up.Advantage of no headgear: don't have to pull it off your mouth when you're turning purple.
I'd like to see a change in the review process: the refs should be given discretion to consider events subsequent to the point of review
In Hall vs Bo the refs had just 2 options; confirm the call or give Bo the TD and wipe-out the 2 for Mark. The 2 and 2 option should have been on the table IMO.
In Hall vs Bo the refs had just 2 options; confirm the call or give Bo the TD and wipe-out the 2 for Mark. The 2 and 2 option should have been on the table IMO.
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Weight Management.
I like the +1 on consecutive days....but I had no idea there were other issues needing harsher penalties. I've never even asked anyone about it.
Headgear:
Concussions and headgear? What? Since when were concussions even a consideration with this headgear? To say it doesn't protect against cauliflower ear....I would disagree. Perhaps if headgear being worn at practice at EVERY level were enforced, we would have considerably less cauliflower ear.
Scramble control
I'm all for it.
3rd Person video review
Will have zero effect. No sure who this placates, but even the "3rd party" guys get it wrong so.....nothing to see here that will change any outcome of any match any differently. But I like throwing the brick instead of waving the silly flag. lol Glad they are putting a lot of effort into this. :-/
I like the +1 on consecutive days....but I had no idea there were other issues needing harsher penalties. I've never even asked anyone about it.
Headgear:
Concussions and headgear? What? Since when were concussions even a consideration with this headgear? To say it doesn't protect against cauliflower ear....I would disagree. Perhaps if headgear being worn at practice at EVERY level were enforced, we would have considerably less cauliflower ear.
Scramble control
I'm all for it.
3rd Person video review
Will have zero effect. No sure who this placates, but even the "3rd party" guys get it wrong so.....nothing to see here that will change any outcome of any match any differently. But I like throwing the brick instead of waving the silly flag. lol Glad they are putting a lot of effort into this. :-/
The ideal post-competition wrestler in 2040 will look like this:
- Fully Bearded (even female wrestlers will be required)
- 2 Super Pinkys for ears (hidden by lots of hair of course)
- Will be fluent in sign language (no hearing left)
- Will tell grandfatherly stories to children, "As a boy I remember wrestlers with headgear..."
- Will go to annual Bill Zadick reunions, held in St. Louis
- Will still be arguing about how the rules should be changed
- Will have heard of Iowa Wrestling
Agree, all action prior to the point of the granted challenge should be "reviewable" imho. Additionally, the new rules being proposed would make the review made by an independent official at the table if I understand it correctly.
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