Stock market near new record highs

[bdgan]

It's funny that EdwardoCarrachio thinks that all-time highs in the stock market, strong GDP, and record lows in unemployment are a disaster. He's completely suckered by Trump, the first president since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs that when he came in and the last president to have a recession. I will take inflation ANY day over people losing their jobs and not having any money.

I don't agree with Eduardo about the stock market but your characterization is politically biased and largely dishonest. The stock market has been strong but so has inflation. You can't honestly deny that. Your claim that Trump had the worst jobs record and Biden had the best jobs record has been totally debunked by the liberal Washington Post who gave that claim unlimited Pinocchios. The reason is job losses were forced by government shutdowns and not economic policies. Allowing people to go back to work after the covid shutdowns also had nothing to do with economic policies. For the record the unemployment rate was 3.5% in the months leading up to the Covid shutdowns and it rebounded back to that level in July 2022. It has since moved back up to 4.1% with the majority of new jobs being government and leisure. A lot of the jobs have also been part time. Manufacturing has struggled in recent years.

You claim about inflation being better than people losing their jobs and having no money is largely debunked by this Bureau of Labor Statistics graph about real wage growth.

I disagree with Edwardo on some things and I appreciate different opinions about policies. I'm just trying to look at the facts.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I don't agree with Eduardo about the stock market but your characterization is politically biased and largely dishonest. The stock market has been strong but so has inflation. You can't honestly deny that. Your claim that Trump had the worst jobs record and Biden had the best jobs record has been totally debunked by the liberal Washington Post who gave that claim unlimited Pinocchios. The reason is job losses were forced by government shutdowns and not economic policies. Allowing people to go back to work after the covid shutdowns also had nothing to do with economic policies. For the record the unemployment rate was 3.5% in the months leading up to the Covid shutdowns and it rebounded back to that level in July 2022. It has since moved back up to 4.1% with the majority of new jobs being government and leisure. A lot of the jobs have also been part time. Manufacturing has struggled in recent years.

You claim about inflation being better than people losing their jobs and having no money is largely debunked by this Bureau of Labor Statistics graph about real wage growth.

I disagree with Edwardo on some things and I appreciate different opinions about policies. I'm just trying to look at the facts.

And the biggest reason the jobs came back is because Trump had three different vaccines approved before he left office. A year before that was supposed to be possible.

The vaccines have people the confidence to return to work and for the government to relax restrictions. So Trump gets credit restoring almost all of those jobs.

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

I don't agree with Eduardo about the stock market but your characterization is politically biased and largely dishonest. The stock market has been strong but so has inflation. You can't honestly deny that. Your claim that Trump had the worst jobs record and Biden had the best jobs record has been totally debunked by the liberal Washington Post who gave that claim unlimited Pinocchios. The reason is job losses were forced by government shutdowns and not economic policies. Allowing people to go back to work after the covid shutdowns also had nothing to do with economic policies. For the record the unemployment rate was 3.5% in the months leading up to the Covid shutdowns and it rebounded back to that level in July 2022. It has since moved back up to 4.1% with the majority of new jobs being government and leisure. A lot of the jobs have also been part time. Manufacturing has struggled in recent years.

You claim about inflation being better than people losing their jobs and having no money is largely debunked by this Bureau of Labor Statistics graph about real wage growth.

I disagree with Edwardo on some things and I appreciate different opinions about policies. I'm just trying to look at the facts.

The Real Wages graph is very telling. It should probably have another line drawn on it to indicate from the start to the end of the Trump admin. That tells the full story in context.

I am going to continue to disagree with you on the stock market though. Every single index has had below average (some massively below) annualized inflation-adjusted returns. That is truly the measure of an investment. How much does the investment return against inflation because that measures what each dollar can purchase.

So if your investment goes up 24% since JAN2021 (about what the DOW and NASDAQ will have done after today's blood red market) and inflation has gone up 24%, then your purchasing power is pretty much the exact same. I'm sorry but that is a historically bad return for a 4-year period.

And yes, the annualized inflation-adjusted ROI for every index was well above average for the period JAN2017 to DEC2020. The NASDAQ return for this period was the highest 4-year return in the history of the market.

They want to keep using the "record high" talking point to describe a stock market just getting back to the levels where it was 4 years ago against inflation. But that is a historically bad return and 4 years of ZERO growth of purchasing power will kill tens of millions of retirement plans. It's been so bad that many millions have unretired and many more millions have simply given up saving for retirement. That is the reality.

 

[The Spin Meister]

The Real Wages graph is very telling. It should probably have another line drawn on it to indicate from the start to the end of the Trump admin. That tells the full story in context.

I am going to continue to disagree with you on the stock market though. Every single index has had below average (some massively below) annualized inflation-adjusted returns. That is truly the measure of an investment. How much does the investment return against inflation because that measures what each dollar can purchase.

So if your investment goes up 24% since JAN2021 (about what the DOW and NASDAQ will have done after today's blood red market) and inflation has gone up 24%, then your purchasing power is pretty much the exact same. I'm sorry but that is a historically bad return for a 4-year period.

And yes, the annualized inflation-adjusted ROI for every index was well above average for the period JAN2017 to DEC2020. The NASDAQ return for this period was the highest 4-year return in the history of the market.

They want to keep using the "record high" talking point to describe a stock market just getting back to the levels where it was 4 years ago against inflation. But that is a historically bad return and 4 years of ZERO growth of purchasing power will kill tens of millions of retirement plans. It's been so bad that many millions have unretired and many more millions have simply given up saving for retirement. That is the reality.

Further, the ‘rally’ has been basically ten stocks or less. Most are down, inflation adjusted.

And much of this so called ‘growth’ is pumped up by massive unsustainable federal spending.

Last the DOW is a scam. Every three years they remove bad sticks and replace them with top sticks so if course it goes up. US Steel, GE, General Motors, all removed znd replaced by tech firms.

 

[knickslions]

And the biggest reason the jobs came back is because Trump had three different vaccines approved before he left office. A year before that was supposed to be possible.

The vaccines have people the confidence to return to work and for the government to relax restrictions. So Trump gets credit restoring almost all of those jobs.

So based on this and the medical so called experts here on other threads Trump is responsible for millions dying because of the vaccines? Good to know lol

 

[PurposePitch]

The Real Wages graph is very telling. It should probably have another line drawn on it to indicate from the start to the end of the Trump admin. That tells the full story in context.

I am going to continue to disagree with you on the stock market though. Every single index has had below average (some massively below) annualized inflation-adjusted returns. That is truly the measure of an investment. How much does the investment return against inflation because that measures what each dollar can purchase.

So if your investment goes up 24% since JAN2021 (about what the DOW and NASDAQ will have done after today's blood red market) and inflation has gone up 24%, then your purchasing power is pretty much the exact same. I'm sorry but that is a historically bad return for a 4-year period.

And yes, the annualized inflation-adjusted ROI for every index was well above average for the period JAN2017 to DEC2020. The NASDAQ return for this period was the highest 4-year return in the history of the market.

They want to keep using the "record high" talking point to describe a stock market just getting back to the levels where it was 4 years ago against inflation. But that is a historically bad return and 4 years of ZERO growth of purchasing power will kill tens of millions of retirement plans. It's been so bad that many millions have unretired and many more millions have simply given up saving for retirement. That is the reality.

Weren't you leaving (again)?

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

So based on this and the medical so called experts here on other threads Trump is responsible for millions dying because of the vaccines? Good to know lol

You have terrible logic.

1) Trump did not develop the vaccines. He merely provided resources to do so. He's not a medical doctor nor a scientist. He brought industry execs together and provided them what they said they needed to develop.

2) Trump never mandated the vaccines. Biden did. Choice of using an experimental vaccine is fine. Mandating is not.

3) This is a discussion about the stock market, not medicine. Of course, you know that but aren't interested in an honest discussion.

 

[The Spin Meister]

You have terrible logic.

1) Trump did not develop the vaccines. He merely provided resources to do so. He's not a medical doctor nor a scientist. He brought industry execs together and provided them what they said they needed to develop.

2) Trump never mandated the vaccines. Biden did. Choice of using an experimental vaccine is fine. Mandating is not.

3) This is a discussion about the stock market, not medicine. Of course, you know that but aren't interested in an honest discussion.

Yep, vaccines had emergency use authorization. New vaccines based on new technology.

Should only have been given to people at high risk….people with two or more co-morbidities. No need to mandate it to perfectly healthy people in the prime of their lives.

But libs couldn’t help themselves. They felt the rush of power and overdosed on the rush.

 

[knickslions]

Yep, vaccines had emergency use authorization. New vaccines based on new technology.

Should only have been given to people at high risk….people with two or more co-morbidities. No need to mandate it to perfectly healthy people in the prime of their lives.

But libs couldn’t help themselves. They felt the rush of power and overdosed on the rush.

That’s not what you said. You said Trump had 3 vaccines Approved before he left office. A year before that was supposed to be possible. This resulted in all the jobs created.

I was just confused by your comment as others stated millions were killed by the approved vaccines linking Trump.

 

[knickslions]

You have terrible logic.

1) Trump did not develop the vaccines. He merely provided resources to do so. He's not a medical doctor nor a scientist. He brought industry execs together and provided them what they said they needed to develop.

2) Trump never mandated the vaccines. Biden did. Choice of using an experimental vaccine is fine. Mandating is not.

3) This is a discussion about the stock market, not medicine. Of course, you know that but aren't interested in an honest discussion.

But this is related to the discussions as he stated Trump created all these jobs based on vaccines he helped get approved. And by the way I thought you stormed out of here a few days ago lol

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

But this is related to the discussions as he stated Trump created all these jobs based on vaccines he helped get approved. And by the way I thought you stormed out of here a few days ago lol

No, I'll wait until the mods ban me for less political posts than you and other libs or for merely responding to lib political posts. You know that you are trying to derail the topic. You aren't an honest person.

 

[The Spin Meister]

That’s not what you said. You said Trump had 3 vaccines Approved before he left office. A year before that was supposed to be possible. This resulted in all the jobs created.

I was just confused by your comment as others stated millions were killed by the approved vaccines linking Trump.

I assumed people had the brains to know the truth by now. Apologies for that.

He got three vaccines approved for emergency use authorization before he left office. It was the Biden administration that mandated everyone over six yrs old get the shots no matter how healthy they were.

Anyone that refused lost work privileges, banned from schools and universities, refused travel rights, refused medical care, and more. These mandates meant 300 million or more got the shots without cause.

.5% of 300 million is far larger than .5% of 30 million.

Capece’?🤷🏿‍♂️

 

[knickslions]

No, I'll wait until the mods ban me for less political posts than you and other libs or for merely responding to lib political posts. You know that you are trying to derail the topic. You aren't an honest person.

I’m not trying to derail anything. Was just looking for clarification on his posts as you cant blame Biden for the vaccines caused millions to die then give trump credit for all the jobs he created because he approved the vaccines. That’s dishonest.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I’m not trying to derail anything. Was just looking for clarification on his posts as you cant blame Biden for the vaccines caused millions to die then give trump credit for all the jobs he created because he approved the vaccines. That’s dishonest.

See above^^^

 

[knickslions]

I assumed people had the brains to know the truth by now. Apologies for that.

He got three vaccines approved for emergency use authorization before he left office. It was the Biden administration that mandated everyone over six yrs old get the shots no matter how healthy they were.

Anyone that refused lost work privileges, banned from schools and universities, refused travel rights, refused medical care, and more. These mandates meant 300 million or more got the shots without cause.

.5% of 300 million is far larger than .5% of 30 million.

Capece’?🤷🏿‍♂️

I understand the vaccines. I’m trying to get an understanding of how trump created a shit load jobs from them as you said giving people confidence to go back to work?

 

[The Spin Meister]

I understand the vaccines. I’m trying to get an understanding of how trump created a shit load jobs from them as you said giving people confidence to go back to work?

I know it’s difficult.

People were locked down and living in fear. Many businesses and schools closed. Restaurants, bars, sporting events, retail shops, gyms, beauty shops, and a hell of a lot more closed. This shockingly caused people to lose their jobs🤷🏿‍♂️and the economy crashed somehow🤷🏻‍♀️🙀

Trump got emergency authorization for three vaccines before he left office.

There was a mass vaccination process that gave people the confidence to go back to living their lives. Miraculously…… jobs and economy came back.,🥴. But wait…… had to be Biden’s great leadership….. no other explanation 😵‍💫

But they went far too far and made every breathing human being take an emergency released vaccine and not just the ones at high risk. Therefore a tenth of a percent of 300 million is far higher than a tenth of a percent of the 30 million high risk. By the transitive property that means ten times as many people had serious side effects than should have.

Sorry for the math…..🥴

 

[bdgan]

Further, the ‘rally’ has been basically ten stocks or less. Most are down, inflation adjusted.

True but recently smaller company stocks have started to come back.

And much of this so called ‘growth’ is pumped up by massive unsustainable federal spending.

True but you could also argue that Trump era growth was pumped up by 0.5% interest rates.

Last the DOW is a scam. Every three years they remove bad sticks and replace them with top sticks so if course it goes up. US Steel, GE, General Motors, all removed znd replaced by tech firms.

That's nothing new. None of the original Dow 30 stocks remain in the index. GE was the last to go back in 2018. Besides, most of the market growth hasn't been with the DOW stocks (even the replacements). It's been in the tech sector where a lot of stocks are traded on the NASDAQ.

 

[knickslions]

I know it’s difficult.

People were locked down and living in fear. Many businesses and schools closed. Restaurants, bars, sporting events, retail shops, gyms, beauty shops, and a hell of a lot more closed. This shockingly caused people to lose their jobs🤷🏿‍♂️and the economy crashed somehow🤷🏻‍♀️🙀

Trump got emergency authorization for three vaccines before he left office.

There was a mass vaccination process that gave people the confidence to go back to living their lives. Miraculously…… jobs and economy came back.,🥴. But wait…… had to be Biden’s great leadership….. no other explanation 😵‍💫

But they went far too far and made every breathing human being take an emergency released vaccine and not just the ones at high risk. Therefore a tenth of a percent of 300 million is far higher than a tenth of a percent of the 30 million high risk. By the transitive property that means ten times as many people had serious side effects than should have.
So
Sorry for the math…..🥴

So the people that were vaccinated because of trump were okay but those under Biden were not. Got it.

 

[The Spin Meister]

So the people that were vaccinated because of trump were okay but those under Biden were not. Got it.

Ok, just realized what I am dealing with.

My bad,…

 

[bdgan]

So the people that were vaccinated because of trump were okay but those under Biden were not. Got it.

I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying that vaccines received emergency authorizations in record time and that they were probably a good idea for the parts of the population most at risk (> 65 yrs old + preexisting conditions). But the mandates for younger healthier people was a step too far.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying that vaccines received emergency authorizations in record time and that they were probably a good idea for the parts of the population most at risk (> 65 yrs old + preexisting conditions). But the mandates for younger healthier people was a step too far.

There are none so blind as those that refuse to see…….🤷🏿‍♂️

 

[knickslions]

I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying that vaccines received emergency authorizations in record time and that they were probably a good idea for the parts of the population most at risk (> 65 yrs old + preexisting conditions). But the mandates for younger healthier people was a step too far.

That’s not what he stated in original post. Go back and read it. Now he’s backtracking. I wasn’t talking about mandates and he wasn’t either. He stated Trump created all these jobs because of the accelerated vaccine rollout.

 

[PurposePitch]

Another option is to only provide child tax credits for families where the parents work.

So we want to use the tax code to deemphasize the "traditional family," and promote outside parties raising our children? An interesting take ...

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

True but recently smaller company stocks have started to come back.

True but you could also argue that Trump era growth was pumped up by 0.5% interest rates.

That's nothing new. None of the original Dow 30 stocks remain in the index. GE was the last to go back in 2018. Besides, most of the market growth hasn't been with the DOW stocks (even the replacements). It's been in the tech sector where a lot of stocks are traded on the NASDAQ.

1) The Russell 2k was down about 30% since JAN2021 relative to inflation up until very recently. It is still down over 20% since that time. I welcome some rotation into these companies because that has to be the worst 4-year period in history for them on an inflation-adjusted basis and a healthy economy needs small caps to grow.

2) In JAN2017 the Fed Funds Rate was 0.66% but was hiked to 2.38% by JUN2019 because of the strong growth of the economy even with inflation very low. It dropped to 0 with the pandemic shutdowns. But most of Trump's term was a rising Fed Fund rate environment. That should have been retarding the economic growth.

Now why did Trump, inherit a 0.66% Fed Funds Rate? Because from JAN2009 when Obama came into office until NOV2015 (7 of his 8 years) the FFR was less than 0.2%. So you can make the argument that Obama's economic growth was propped up by the longest period of near 0% FFR in our nation's history, but that FFR was rising throughout Trump's term until the governors shut down their states.

3) Rotation has occurred in the indices over the years. I'm not knowledgeable on exactly how much or if this period is different in that regard.

 

[NittanyLionRoar]

EdwardoCarrachio only likes his comfortable little echochamber where he can be wrong about economics and take pleasure in the ignorance that comes with blocking out other viewpoints. That’s why he puts people on ignore who bring facts that show the whole picture. It’s also why he’s called for recession throughout the whole bull market to all time highs.

I used to post an updated graph that marked every time he cried and wailed about the stock market and the impending recession which was hilarious because the markets just kept going up, up, up after each of his apocalyptic financial predictions.

 

[The Spin Meister]

That’s not what he stated in original post. Go back and read it. Now he’s backtracking. I wasn’t talking about mandates and he wasn’t either. He stated Trump created all these jobs because of the accelerated vaccine rollout.

Never said he created anything, progressive breath. Said the jobs that were shut down came back after the vaccinations calmed fears of the Wuhan virus.

And I never back tracked anything. I added context which I didn’t originally post because of brevity and the mistaken belief you were capable of knowing what had actually transpired.

 

[bdroc]

Then you had better invest in child care. Many of the young families I talk to with children claim the costs of child care disincentivize working.

Childcare is definitely a problem in the era of 2 income families. IMO that's the reason why we've expanded kindergarten and pre-k programs. It's as much about childcare as it is education.

Trump doubled the childcare credit and Biden wants to expand it further. We also have a dependent care credit and pre tax savings programs. I don't know how much more we can afford to give but your point about childcare cost is well taken.

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

Childcare is definitely a problem in the era of 2 income families. IMO that's the reason why we've expanded kindergarten and pre-k programs. It's as much about childcare as it is education.

Trump doubled the childcare credit and Biden wants to expand it further. We also have a dependent care credit and pre tax savings programs. I don't know how much more we can afford to give but your point about childcare cost is well taken.

Well, when society deems it necessary to have 2 incomes then this is what you get. It wasn't always like this. People chose to go this route. My mom didn't work when my sister and I were young. When her grandkids were young, she again quit work to watch them. No one is going to give you childcare with the love and care of parent or grandparent. Of course, this necessitates that a parent or grandparent finds it more important to care for their kids/grandkids than to make more money.

 

[Hotshoe]

When governors force businesses to temporarily close for Covid, that's a job loss???

Even you're smarter than that

It's not about being smart, it's about being honest. Why I always ask, why only Trump is held to this bogus standard, but no other world leader? They never answer. They hate Trump. End of story. He also knows, the stock market doesn't help the lower, and much of the middle class. That's elitism at its finest. It's why the vast majority of Americans can't stand coastal elites of any party.

 

[jferretti]

Well, when society deems it necessary to have 2 incomes then this is what you get. It wasn't always like this. People chose to go this route. My mom didn't work when my sister and I were young. When her grandkids were young, she again quit work to watch them. No one is going to give you childcare with the love and care of parent or grandparent. Of course, this necessitates that a parent or grandparent finds it more important to care for their kids/grandkids than to make more money.

You speak of a bygone era. Women are more educated and are more able to work. Generations of family members don't huddle together in the same town so grandparents are not available to babysit. I have 3 daughters, all highly educated. They value their professions, their relocating to experience more of the country, and they still want children. All of it will require childcare to make it work. We are not going back to Leave it to Beaver times.

 

[Sullivan]

You speak of a bygone era. Women are more educated and are more able to work. Generations of family members don't huddle together in the same town so grandparents are not available to babysit. I have 3 daughters, all highly educated. They value their professions, their relocating to experience more of the country, and they still want children. All of it will require childcare to make it work. We are not going back to Leave it to Beaver times.

If your daughters are highly educated, they should be able to afford childcare.

 

[bdgan]

And the biggest reason the jobs came back is because Trump had three different vaccines approved before he left office. A year before that was supposed to be possible.

The vaccines have people the confidence to return to work and for the government to relax restrictions. So Trump gets credit restoring almost all of those jobs.

1. I think Trump lost the 2020 election because Dems were able to convince enough people that Covid deaths and shutdowns were due to Trump's poor response. I personally think that Trump did as much as possible wrt to covid but he was the guy in charge when it hit.
2. I also think democrats went out of their way to keep the economy shut until after the election. That's a horrible thing to do but republicans would probably do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. Does anybody really think that republicans are hoping for good GDP and employment numbers to be released in the next few months before the 2024 election? Politics is ugly.
3. It's amazing that 600k people died when Trump was in office and CNN displayed a perpetual death clock. After Biden took office 700k more people died in spite of 3 vaccines but the death clock went away and the economy reopened.
4. My biggest criticism about the handling of covid was that Trump agreed to way too much spending and he deferred too much to Fauci. 90% of people remained employed and didn't need stimulus payments. Unemployed people didn't need a substantial raise for not working. Companies are to this day collecting employee retention payments. I think we spent at least $3 trillion too much but it was politically too difficult to oppose. Meanwhile we knew after just a few months that covid was no more fatal than the flu for students and healthy working age Americans. By far the biggest risk was older people with preexisting conditions. Young people should have been in school and working age people should have been on the job while the focus should have been to protect the most vulnerable.

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

You speak of a bygone era. Women are more educated and are more able to work. Generations of family members don't huddle together in the same town so grandparents are not available to babysit. I have 3 daughters, all highly educated. They value their professions, their relocating to experience more of the country, and they still want children. All of it will require childcare to make it work. We are not going back to Leave it to Beaver times.

Then they are making a choice of career over personally caring for their children. It is 100% about priorities, and you are correct that those seem to have changed in American society and probably won't go back. People can evaluate for themselves if this has been good or not.

As for the tradeoff, 2 income families can afford bigger homes and more stuff. But certainly no one will give better care for their children. So they not only pay for that childcare in thousands of dollars, but they do in the love and care of their children. Then often you have parents feeling guilty about this and buying kids whatever they want. I personally don't think that this is a good thing either.

Caring for your kids and grandkids IS a major investment and it does often result in great returns. Everyone has to decide for themselves if this is the investment they want to make. 2 incomes leaves investing in personally caring for your children/grandchildren as an opportunity cost. I thank God that my mom made the decision for the latter for herself, her kids, and her grandkids. This is one of the most important pieces of a successful and healthy life. You cannot have greater wealth than having a great family IMO.

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

1. I think Trump lost the 2020 election because Dems were able to convince enough people that Covid deaths and shutdowns were due to Trump's poor response. I personally think that Trump did as much as possible wrt to covid but he was the guy in charge when it hit.
2. I also think democrats went out of their way to keep the economy shut until after the election. That's a horrible thing to do but republicans would probably do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. Does anybody really think that republicans are hoping for good GDP and employment numbers to be released in the next few months before the 2024 election? Politics is ugly.
3. It's amazing that 600k people died when Trump was in office and CNN displayed a perpetual death clock. After Biden took office 700k more people died in spite of 3 vaccines but the death clock went away and the economy reopened.
4. My biggest criticism about the handling of covid was that Trump agreed to way too much spending and he deferred too much to Fauci. 90% of people remained employed and didn't need stimulus payments. Unemployed people didn't need a substantial raise for not working. Companies are to this day collecting employee retention payments. I think we spent at least $3 trillion too much but it was politically too difficult to oppose. Meanwhile we knew after just a few months that covid was no more fatal than the flu for students and healthy working age Americans. By far the biggest risk was older people with preexisting conditions. Young people should have been in school and working age people should have been on the job while the focus should have been to protect the most vulnerable.

All valid points.

1) Yes, mail in voting, and 95% negative media coverage.

2) Yes they did but I'm not sure that R's would have done so. They don't own the media the way D's do and for this reason it would have been turned against them had they attempted exactly what D's did. BTW, why have so many just accepted it? Months upon months and many once in a lifetime experiences, jobs, lives, etc. were taken from millions and we just accept that well, that's politics? You don't want to hold those people accountable for some of the worst crimes against all of us in history? I want those who perverted the response for personal power to be held accountable and I will never stop pushing for this.

3) See above on ownership of the media. Now, the only question is who does the media own? I would suggest this number of Americans is becoming smaller as they understand just how dishonest the media (all of it) is.

4) Yes, they overshot both fiscal (Trump) and monetary (the FED) stimulus. IMO they had to, else they would risk our entire economy collapsing from the worst economic shock in history (many, many months of being shut down).

Where there was no excuse for this was when it continued until FEB2022 with 0% FED Funds Rate and trillions in fiscal stimulus (Biden) in a rapidly rising inflationary environment. That was economic blasphemy. We will pay 25% for everything we ever buy for life because of this.

 

[The Spin Meister]

1. I think Trump lost the 2020 election because Dems were able to convince enough people that Covid deaths and shutdowns were due to Trump's poor response. I personally think that Trump did as much as possible wrt to covid but he was the guy in charge when it hit.
2. I also think democrats went out of their way to keep the economy shut until after the election. That's a horrible thing to do but republicans would probably do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. Does anybody really think that republicans are hoping for good GDP and employment numbers to be released in the next few months before the 2024 election? Politics is ugly.
3. It's amazing that 600k people died when Trump was in office and CNN displayed a perpetual death clock. After Biden took office 700k more people died in spite of 3 vaccines but the death clock went away and the economy reopened.
4. My biggest criticism about the handling of covid was that Trump agreed to way too much spending and he deferred too much to Fauci. 90% of people remained employed and didn't need stimulus payments. Unemployed people didn't need a substantial raise for not working. Companies are to this day collecting employee retention payments. I think we spent at least $3 trillion too much but it was politically too difficult to oppose. Meanwhile we knew after just a few months that covid was no more fatal than the flu for students and healthy working age Americans. By far the biggest risk was older people with preexisting conditions. Young people should have been in school and working age people should have been on the job while the focus should have been to protect the most vulnerable.

Spot on. Would add the Summer of Floyd riots they intentionally kept going as long as they could.

Yep, they gave away fsr too much money in that stimulus plan but the evil 🤡 party controlled both houses of Congress by then and Queen Nancy was running that 💩 show. Trump shoulda pushed back but was more concerned with fighting the pandemic. Plus he knew if he cut some of the spending the media would attacked him mercilessly.

 

[PurposePitch]

No, I'll wait until the mods ban me for less political posts than you and other libs or for merely responding to lib political posts. You know that you are trying to derail the topic. You aren't an honest person.

The guy who has repeatedly said he's leaving, but never leaves ... and has made up all sorts of tall tales about his life ... is calling someone else "not an honest person." LOL. This board is awesome.

 

[PurposePitch]

Then they are making a choice of career over personally caring for their children. It is 100% about priorities, and you are correct that those seem to have changed in American society and probably won't go back. People can evaluate for themselves if this has been good or not.

As for the tradeoff, 2 income families can afford bigger homes and more stuff. But certainly no one will give better care for their children. So they not only pay for that childcare in thousands of dollars, but they do in the love and care of their children. Then often you have parents feeling guilty about this and buying kids whatever they want. I personally don't think that this is a good thing either.

Caring for your kids and grandkids IS a major investment and it does often result in great returns. Everyone has to decide for themselves if this is the investment they want to make. 2 incomes leaves investing in personally caring for your children/grandchildren as an opportunity cost. I thank God that my mom made the decision for the latter for herself, her kids, and her grandkids. This is one of the most important pieces of a successful and healthy life. You cannot have greater wealth than having a great family IMO.

You claim to have had a 2-income family, and you handed your kids off to grandma to raise, using her as your free childcare proxy. Hypocrite. Of course, we know this is all made up, but even in your fairy tale world, you're a hypocrite.

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

Back to the stock market. Between yesterday and the direction I'm seeing today, I'm wondering if Dems have given up on propping up the market for election season seeing it as a lost cause. The big money has been dumping hard. We'll see if this continues but perhaps they are even trying to force the FED into an ill-advised early rate cutting?

 

[ryoder1]

1. I think Trump lost the 2020 election because Dems were able to convince enough people that Covid deaths and shutdowns were due to Trump's poor response. I personally think that Trump did as much as possible wrt to covid but he was the guy in charge when it hit.
2. I also think democrats went out of their way to keep the economy shut until after the election. That's a horrible thing to do but republicans would probably do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. Does anybody really think that republicans are hoping for good GDP and employment numbers to be released in the next few months before the 2024 election? Politics is ugly.
3. It's amazing that 600k people died when Trump was in office and CNN displayed a perpetual death clock. After Biden took office 700k more people died in spite of 3 vaccines but the death clock went away and the economy reopened.
4. My biggest criticism about the handling of covid was that Trump agreed to way too much spending and he deferred too much to Fauci. 90% of people remained employed and didn't need stimulus payments. Unemployed people didn't need a substantial raise for not working. Companies are to this day collecting employee retention payments. I think we spent at least $3 trillion too much but it was politically too difficult to oppose. Meanwhile we knew after just a few months that covid was no more fatal than the flu for students and healthy working age Americans. By far the biggest risk was older people with preexisting conditions. Young people should have been in school and working age people should have been on the job while the focus should have been to protect the most vulnerable.

Your points are good ones. It is clear as day about your first point regarding the 2020 election. It wasn't just the Democrats but the liberal media that painted the false narrative that Trump didn't take Covid seriously and was to blame for how bad it got. He quickly got these pharma companies to develop the vaccines but the Democrats didn't want to give him any credit for that. They painted him as someone who responded slowly and did not care that much and Trump didn't help his cause in debunking this narrative. A once in a century pandemic allows Joe Biden to creep into office. After the barrage of negativity around Trump and his Covid handling, Biden still barely won. Tells you the confidence people had in the guy. It's like a football team winning with half the starters not playing for the other team.

 

[bdgan]

The S&P 500 has fallen 2.2% since I warned about high PE ratio a few days ago. I'm not a market timer but I'm not surprised.