was it about Cenzo when i said the exact same thing about IMar last year?
https://www.flowrestling.org/articl...-133-for-big-tens-will-be-decided-this-sunday
VJ seeded third at Big 10s?
- Thread starter GogglesPaizano
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was it about Cenzo when i said the exact same thing about IMar last year?
https://www.flowrestling.org/articl...-133-for-big-tens-will-be-decided-this-sunday
So by saying it about Imar, you actually are saying it about Cenzo...Again. Right?
Love the discussion, though now it feels like that never-ending "do loop" I was getting in Comp Sci class 45 years ago. Dang punch cards. 
I find comments defending Flo's viewpoint somewhat amusing. Not because it isn't okay to post that opinion, but because I always enjoy wondering, would this poster be equally supportive of an HR thread titled, "Why Vincenzo Joseph Should Be The 3 Seed At Big Tens?"
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actually off board we met with the flo guys and said how could be blow up the HR conspiracy that Willie is a PSU shill. We came up with this. When it gets to 10 pages Willie wins Chicken.
Small price to pay for Willie's covert recruitment of Saunders.
All I could keep thinking watching Manville against Wick was that Cenzo would have wrecked him.
Funny thing is, the one person who has come out and said that they don't care about Cenzo's seed, is Cenzo. Gotta love that approach.
W/L was discussed in my dissertation. It cannot be the only factor. Nor can 'quality wins' or whatever. Let's say Snyder only wrestled 10 matches last year, went 9-1 w the loss to Coon. No real quality wins on the year. We get to NCAAs and hypothetically there are undefeated guys from PAC and from EIWA. Modest at best strength of schedule. Maybe guys that Snyder tech'd last year. You seed Snyder 4th even though the odds that Snyder loses before the finals are 2%, and only has a 10% chance to lose in the final?
Seeding has to be balanced between w/l, health, strength of schedule, and past accomplishments if they are recent/relevant.
worst start to a FRL episode EVER
soooooo a simple blog post that was clear as mud to begin with, has now closed a 20 minute fingernails on the chalkboard segment where the closing minute just made the blog/discussion even muddier.
#success
#verynice
#crosspromotionisappreciated
#whereisturk???
Haven't read this entire thread (lucky me!), but while I think the emphasis should be on this season's results, I think it's absolutely ludicrous that past results shouldn't factor into the equation at all. Cenzo is a two time Champion with finals wins over essentially an all-time great. To give this zero consideration while seeding is simply absurd.
They make an argument for one guy missing one match. What happens to Rasheed for missing a few matches does he get seeded last for big tens than how far does RBY drop from missing a few matches.
Meh. By framing the discussion around Cenzo the article was meant to be provocative — to provoke discussion. Its a common journalistic technique. Given PSU’s embarrassment of riches over the past decade, we have broad shoulders and make an easy foil for these kinds of things. Worthy topic tho.
I’m a little surprised I haven’t seen people here take issue with Flo’s assertion that the PSU wrestling team truly “hates” tOSU. Now that’s some over the top zaniness, even for Flo. Do our guys LOVE destroying tOSU on the mat? Of course. But hatred? lol
I’m a little surprised I haven’t seen people here take issue with Flo’s assertion that the PSU wrestling team truly “hates” tOSU. Now that’s some over the top zaniness, even for Flo. Do our guys LOVE destroying tOSU on the mat? Of course. But hatred? lol
+1 I saw a LOT of comments on the PSU v tOSU thread praising tOSU for their sportsmanship. Including a number of positive things about Ryan.
I do think one of our wrestlers was asked if they hate any other teams and he said "We don't hate anyone. Ohio State.".
You mean the same jokester who said, “We run a lot. I know college wrestling teams do a lot of running but we take it to another level. Sometimes we’ll go a week or so without wrestling just to get our cardio up by running Beaver Stadium countless times“?
The fun part is the tables turned a bit on Nomad this morning and Pyles, being the savvy fella he is shut the discussion down when Willie was exposing Nomads logic as cockamamie, at best. Personally, I'm just flattered that we took up nearly 20 minutes of time on the country's most popular radio program. We must be doing something right...
God I wish this was the case. I was probably the third or fourth best runner on my team and easily the worst conditioned when it came to wrestling. First dual of my senior season I pretty much quit in the 2nd period and immediately found a trash can to puke in. I remember gassing in 1:30-1-1 summer camp matches. I like to think it was all the fast-twitch muscle fibers!
Sports hate is not the same thing as hate hate. Unless it's tOSU and Michigan, anyway . . .
In the end the Flo guys were left arguing with each other with nothing but more confusion, mission accomplished.
wow. you cracked the code.
except for the little detail that nomad did one on every weight.
In all seriousness, I get that we all want the regular season/dual meets to mean more, I am just really cautious about anything that will pressure guys to wrestle hurt/contagious.
What I find most interesting about all this is that I feel, in a vacuum, there may not be a coach or program that cares less about conference seeding than Cael and PSU.
I guess my point is that it should be part of the equation, not completely disregarded. So, yes, Delgado should have gotten some credit.
Spyker would definitely recommend his go to move, a “duck” under.
Don't disagree.
You probably figured this out: Delgado was the example because he was injured, missed a lot of time, and did not perform at his previous level. I'd be OK with his 2x champ status being some kind of tiebreaker, but not to put him ahead of someone who achieved that year.
BTW, here are B10 seeds from that year, along with their records entering B10s, and their B10 and NCAA placements:
1 Gilman -- 24-3, B10 2, NCAA 4
2 Delgado -- 6-1, B10 4, NCAA DNP (1-2)
3 Tomasello -- 24-4, B10 1, NCAA 1
4 Lambert -- 22-7, B10 6, NCAA DNP (1-2)
5 Conaway -- 20-5, B10 3, NCAA 8
6 Youtsey -- 19-10, B10 5, NCAA 6
7 Lizak -- 24-11, B10 7, NCAA DNP (2-2)
8 Welch -- 10-11, DNP, DNQ
Delgado was 3-0 in the conference but Welch was easily his toughest B10 opponent. Only national qualifier he faced was Missouri's Waters (who beat him 6-2).
IMO he did receive preferential treatment as a 2x national champ at B10 seeds. Definitely should've been seeded behind Tomasello, and probably behind Lambert and Conaway, maybe even as low as 7th. 7 total matches and zero quality wins in or out of conference. That 2 seed was a leap of faith.
Footnote: Delgado was unseeded at NCAAs despite finishing 4th at B10s.
According to nomad only big ten matches should count towards big ten seedings. So mark halls win over zahid wouldn't count towards his seeding. WTH is rhat
Nomad used a very sophisticated type of argument to support his idea: he said his assertion, and then he repeated it several times, with greater and greater vehemence as Willie disagreed with him.
#argumentbyrepetition #argumentbypersonalincredulity.BTW, I love FRL, and I love the people on it--they're great--, even though I like busting their balls sometimes.
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Nomad used a very sophisticated type of argument to support his idea: he said his assertion, and then he repeated it several times, with greater and greater vehemence as Willie disagreed with him.
BTW, I love FRL, and I love the people on it--they're great--, even though I like busting their balls sometimes.
Exactly! We were the kooks and the boys had Nomad’s back until he started talking about how Mark beating Zahid didn’t matter. Personally, I’m excited for the day when I can be and F so they will answer my Qs.
Stinks for the 1 seed who will lose in the quarters and is at risk of not qualifying for districts, because of poor seeding.
Garcia may well be the 3 seed at districts and the 2 seed at regionals -- because he has no varsity prior year results and wrestled half the season. The points system penalizes freshmen.
At Hershey, who knows how PIAA will rank the 4 regional champs. Won't be shocked if they make him the 4 seed at states, and he gets a rematch with Dowling in the semis.
When the conference schedule is a complete round robin, the best conference W/L ledger as the number 1 seed would in fact be the most objective determining factor.
Without matching conference schedules you begin to enter subjectivity.
With non-similar conference schedules other things come into play. Head-to-head, overall records, past achievements are a few of those other things. How you weigh each is subjective.
The argument that an undefeated Cenzo should be third seed behind someone with a conference loss is pretty much eliminating objectivity altogether, unless Flo is up to offering an argument as to how best W/L ledger now means 1 loss is superior to 0 losses.
Click bait is just another way to say attrack viewers/readers/site users. You know, things that when increased also increase paying customers and advertiser revenues. Your insistence that Flo does not strive to deliver articles and design article headlines in a manner that attacks viewers (ie click bait) is ridiculously silly. If Flo isn't doing that they are shortchanging everybody with a financial interest in Flo.
The article was written well enough, and it is an interesting argument and it most certainly was written to stimulate conversation. All in all it was a successful article for Flo, and resulted in all kinds of conversation with the wrestling community. If your comment about it being a logical arguement is an attempt to be serious, come on.
How did that logic work?
If Wick and Marinelli compete against each other then the winner between the two should be seeded higher than the other.
If Wick and Marinelli compete against each other, but not against Joesph then the Wick Marinelli victor is also seeded higher than Joesph.
That is some in depth and high quality "if then else" logic.
The article isn't some genius look at how to seed 165, nor is it a moronic point of view. What it is, is an article designed to catch a readers interest, present an out of center point of view that has enough merit to be worth of conversation and to hopefully increase use of Flo.
that's not what "click bait" is. the word "bait" implies you don't end up getting what you hoped you would, like fish eating a lure that they thought was food. i'm not sure what word you're really looking for, maybe "entertainment" or "intriguing article" or even "opinion that some people disagree with", but titling an article "why vincenzo joseph should be the 3 seed at big tens" and then presenting EXACTLY THAT is not "click bait".
Yeah, I busted the chops of Pyles in jest about being from the Shenandoah Valley, but seriously, talking about someone's appearances are ignorant. I really agree with Willie here.
My only issue with Cenzo at 3 is that it is inconsistent with the past, completely. Compare wins between Bull and IMar last year, and IMar gets the number one on reputation alone. So it's not that it doesn't make sense, it's that it's inconsistent. By Nomad's reasoning, Bull is the clear number 1 last year at 165.
It's a hot take.
Hot takes are the defining feature of successful sports journalism these days.
Say something (kind of) controversial. Then have people debate/argue/yell at each other about it.
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