Who would you hire to replace Chambers?
- Thread starter Nitty_Lion
- Start date
I’m not mentioning names because I don’t think there are any that would be willing to come here and then do a better job.
Also, the current Xavier coach likely makes more than Chambers now. The former coach, Chris Mack, made 50% more before leaving for Louisville
So, here are some figures I pulled recently from a few sources. You can find different sources with slightly different figures, but in general they are pretty close. Budgets of some of our recent opponents in men’s basketball. It’s easy to say go get another coach. Where is the money going to come from?
In 2016-2017 the total budget for Penn State Men’s Basketball was $6,061,590. Pat makes $900K in salary.
Archie Miller is making $3.2 million in salary at Indiana. The total budget last year was $13.4 million—more than double what we spend.
Virginia Tech in 2016-2017 had a total budget of $9,892,883.
NC State in 2016-2017 had a total budget of $9,638,081.
Bradley is a private school, hard to get numbers. But it looks like in 2013 when they hired their current coach, they were spending $3.8 million annually, and expectations that spending was going up to compete with Witchita State in their conference, whose head coach is making $3.5 million this year.
DePaul is 2016-2017 had a budget of $5,533,711.
From a couple of years ago:
B1G MEN’S BASKETBALL EXPENSES 2015-2016
Michigan State $14,371,905
Indiana $12,272,275
Wisconsin $9,834,447
Ohio State $9,558,478
Michigan $8,920,109
Minnesota $8,204,513
Northwestern $7,668,723*
Maryland $7,622,707
Iowa $7,518,540
Nebraska $7,395,847
Illinois $7,321,390
Purdue $7,270,643
Rutgers $6,147,089
Penn State $5,813,915
In 2016-2017 the total budget for Penn State Men’s Basketball was $6,061,590. Pat makes $900K in salary.
Archie Miller is making $3.2 million in salary at Indiana. The total budget last year was $13.4 million—more than double what we spend.
Virginia Tech in 2016-2017 had a total budget of $9,892,883.
NC State in 2016-2017 had a total budget of $9,638,081.
Bradley is a private school, hard to get numbers. But it looks like in 2013 when they hired their current coach, they were spending $3.8 million annually, and expectations that spending was going up to compete with Witchita State in their conference, whose head coach is making $3.5 million this year.
DePaul is 2016-2017 had a budget of $5,533,711.
From a couple of years ago:
B1G MEN’S BASKETBALL EXPENSES 2015-2016
Michigan State $14,371,905
Indiana $12,272,275
Wisconsin $9,834,447
Ohio State $9,558,478
Michigan $8,920,109
Minnesota $8,204,513
Northwestern $7,668,723*
Maryland $7,622,707
Iowa $7,518,540
Nebraska $7,395,847
Illinois $7,321,390
Purdue $7,270,643
Rutgers $6,147,089
Penn State $5,813,915
Yes, penn State shows how committed they are to men’s ba. Rutgers spends more on basketball than Penn State... ugh!
Given the level of investment, Penn State should come in last place in the conference every year. Given what we put into the program at a university level, it’s hard to say Chambers has underachieved. Should the expectations be higher? I think so - but it’s unrealistic to demand much higher expectations with the investment we’re making.
Maybe we spend so little because we have a low paid coach. And maybe we have a low paid coach because he isn’t worth more than what he’s making.
The professional paychecks being pulled down by Tim Frazier, DJ Newbill, Brandon Taylor and Donovan Jack (!) would agree with that assessment. All of those guys had their games grow and develop significantly at Penn State. Tim Frazier went from a bench player to an NBA regular, DJ Newbill became a borderline All-American, and the fact that Donovon Jack developed into a position to get paid to play basketball professionally was a minor miracle. I think it’s hard to argue that Chambers and his staff haven’t at least come close to getting the most out of the talent they’ve had since they’ve been here.
He’s a better recruiter than any coach we’ve ever had. Getting classes that are in the middle of the pack in what is objectively the worst basketball program in the conference is a testament to that. That doesn’t change the fact that most of his classes are somewhere in the middle 50% of the conference he’s competing in.
I've got this hunch that seeing Franklin recruit gave him a kick in the ass and he hopefully learned a thing or two. Maybe he needs better assistants and needs to delegate more? He seems like a great guy and I really want him to do well. I've been enjoying some better athletes but I totally understand the question marks. Hell, just move the games back to rec hall, problem solved
I’d rather see better basketball players than better athletes.
How do you know? Paterno didn’t make much relatively speaking either, but we now pay good money for Franklin. Chambers earns what he’s worth....maybe they would pay more for someone worth more.
And even if we pay what Indiana does in coaching salaries, they’re still spending about $5,000,000 more than Penn State is on basketball. It’s not just about coaching salaries - we’ve under-invested versus our conference peers in almost every aspect when it comes to basketball, and we should expect to get our money’s worth. Right now, we’re getting better results than our level of investment would suggest.
Stop. Stop suggesting we are over performing. Take that spin elsewhere Mrs Chambers
We are the 14th biggest spender in the conference. Why should we expect to finish too much higher than 14th?
Make no mistake - I think our current level of investment is an embarrassment. But the reality is that we’re getting more than we’re putting in right now. I think we should be putting a whole lot more in, so that we can reasonably expect better results. But expecting to consistently finish in the top half of the conference with the lowest level of investment in the conference is crazy talk.
I generally agree. My point was if they’re willing (able?) to pay more for a better coach, then why don’t they? I think it’s because they don’t have the money. Men’s basketball has been woefully underfunded for years. Most schools are accustomed to paying more to basketball and other sports funding reflects that. To change that at Penn State would require a major shift in how money gets allocated to the various sports. Either you’re cutting multiple sports, cutting budgets on multiple sports, or finding another revenue stream to pay for the increased budget.
I agree. I think it’s more institutional inertia than anything else - the school is used to spending nothing on basketball, so we spend nothing on it now. The issue is that the fanbase’s expectations don’t reflect the current institutional reality - look at Penn State’s other men’s winter sports: there is no chance in hell that Cael Sanderson or Guy Gadowsky are coaching at Penn State if their budgets were at the level that the basketball budget is at compared to our conference peers. It is what it is until something changes.
Bullshit. For as long as Chambers has been here, and with all the talent he supposedly had been bringing in, he shouldn’t be just 6-6 with that schedule. Too many bad losses that should have been wins. Too many games with shit offense.
Because they’ve had Chambers in place and they were giving him time. He’s done just enough to hang on, but it’s crashing and burning.
And how are we spending compared to Duquesne because that’s the level we’re on.
How about making the tournament once every 8 years? Is that crazy talk? Because we used to do that prior to Chambers.
So should we be spending that much on other sports? Everyone knows the two biggest sports are football and men’s basketball. I would rather sink the money into basketball than wrestling, women’s volley ball, or any other sport that only a handful of people care about.
Duquesne spends $4.5M on basketball - so about a million bucks less than we do. That said, they just announced a $50M renovation of their arena earlier this fall.
100% agree. My point is that our spending in wrestling and men’s hockey is close to the top of the class compared to our peers in those sports, and we see the commensurate results. I agree that a successful basketball program is exponentially more valuable than a successful hockey or wrestling team - but it also takes a whole lot more money that the school has long decided that they’d rather not pursue.
I get that but I’d rather see them take it away from those sports and put it into basketball.
I am of the opinion that Penn State consciously chooses to minimize their spending in basketball to maximize the profits they can take out and use to fund other sports. Due to Big Ten revenue sharing, they make millions in profit on men’s basketball. Hiring a coach with the name and a pedigree that could recruit the kind of players that would allow Penn State to compete for Big Ten championships would severely reduce that profit.
As others on the board have pointed out, I don’t see this happening unless some deep pockets donor steps up and follows the model of Pegula and the hockey program. For many reasons, I wish I was in a financial position to do that!
As others on the board have pointed out, I don’t see this happening unless some deep pockets donor steps up and follows the model of Pegula and the hockey program. For many reasons, I wish I was in a financial position to do that!
For the record, I don’t think it’s that Sandy doesn’t want to spend more on basketball, and become more competitive. I’m not so sure about prior administrations. But I don’t know that she can spend the money. The athletic department is still self sufficient, but it’s not flush in profits. Other sports have certain spending levels that have been in place for years (and some of them, like wrestling and women’s volleyball and women’s soccer seem to have gone up proportionally). We in many ways “underfunded” football after Lasch was built. By that, I mean, Joe and his staff worked below market value, and we didn’t invest in keeping up the football facilities, and we didn’t have all of these “consultants” (essentially extra coaches that don’t coach on the field) that other elite schools added. We now pay market rate (or close to it) for coaches, added consultants, recruiting and other staff, are trying to get caught up in facilities, etc. Thats costing millions of dollars a year more. The new TV contract money is probably bailing us out on that, but still there’s only so much money to go around. So, where’s the money going to come from for basketball? We’d need an additional $3-4M a year to get into Ohio State or Wisconsin level spending, more if you wanted to get to Indiana and Michigan State level spending.
I would argue that with a more competitive team, attendance would be higher and ticket prices could be raised significantly, therefore generating way more revenue. Would it be enough to fund $3-4 million in a coach’s salary? From what we have seen in past years, weekend games against teams like OSU, and MSU are well attended at the BjC. With a top tier team, could we draw 14 or 15 thousand for a weeknight game against Nebraska? Could we increase ticket prices to say $50-60 a ticket?
If the answer is yes, clearly Penn State can afford a top coach. My view is that our athletic department thinks the answer is no, or isn’t willing to take the financial risk to find out.
