He,him,he you said. I‘d think the 30+ wrestlers would have SOME say in this, wouldnt they???
Bearclaw over J. Lee
- Thread starter davidtaylorgangordie
- Start date
Isn’t it time, yet, to get off Joe’s back?
Please stop. We can be positive on Terrell Barraclough without being negative on Joe Lee.
The are both great kids, talented wrestlers, and most important our boys.
The are both great kids, talented wrestlers, and most important our boys.
i've been on record on this quite a bit, but this isn't a fall imo. he was always extremely overrated on this board. he had "battles," but was almost always on the losing end and had other losses to guys Carr would have never lost to. They weren't similar recruits. Joe was a good, not great recruit, with potential to maybe develop into a point scorer later in his career. He was much closer to Murin as a recruit (since you all love to beat up on him here) than his brother and his results have born that out (though Murin's are better).
He gets too much grief on here for being what he is: a good young wrestler with some potential who just isn't there yet.
Wasn't he part of the Sanderson wrestling school for a while as well
That's what I say when hes being ridden like a mule.
I'm so sorry. It was wide open for that one....
Yeah, but unfortunately the board needs a punching bag, and it's apparently his turn.
I wish that weren't so, though not as much as Q, the Altons, Gulibon, and Verk at least.
Remember some of the things said about Nick his first year also? Remember when he lost to Mikey Carr at Big Tens then got pinned by Ryan Diehl the first round?
It wasn’t right then, either. Fine to make a point or an opinion once, but to perseverate on it gets old fast and comes of as an attack on the wrestler.
I agree and we as fans probably don't even know just how hard Joe works and we often forget our wrestlers are actually humans also with real feelings. Our punching bags are always kids who we had high hopes for coming out of HS and didn't live up to it (it's never a Devin Schnupp or Bo Pipher, all respect to them) but I agree that the "we are harsh because we believe in them" shouldn't be a thing fans go for ... leave that up to Cael and crew.
In defense of Joe
1) He had a pretty impressive redshirt season so we know and have seen he has AA potential
2) Last year was a disappointment for all, Joe, Cael and us fans, but he was only a freshman. I can't really defend what we saw last year and it hurt.
3) Barraclough flashed some pretty good stuff last year. He is a really tough kid and knows how to wrestle. We know he is solid but we are not used to wrapping or heads around kids who aren't top 10 recruits. If he has jumped levels we might all be in for a really nice surprise.
4) Lastly and I think most importantly. Joe is down a weight. For some, 8 lbs is no joke. Maybe he had a moderate cut already last year. It may take him another month or more to fully acclimate. I am not yet ready to assume the mid-November Joe is the January Joe just due to the cut alone.
Rest assured, Cael probably won't commit until late December or early January. Both will be better then and we should have a shot at an AA with whomever is better.
1) He had a pretty impressive redshirt season so we know and have seen he has AA potential
2) Last year was a disappointment for all, Joe, Cael and us fans, but he was only a freshman. I can't really defend what we saw last year and it hurt.
3) Barraclough flashed some pretty good stuff last year. He is a really tough kid and knows how to wrestle. We know he is solid but we are not used to wrapping or heads around kids who aren't top 10 recruits. If he has jumped levels we might all be in for a really nice surprise.
4) Lastly and I think most importantly. Joe is down a weight. For some, 8 lbs is no joke. Maybe he had a moderate cut already last year. It may take him another month or more to fully acclimate. I am not yet ready to assume the mid-November Joe is the January Joe just due to the cut alone.
Rest assured, Cael probably won't commit until late December or early January. Both will be better then and we should have a shot at an AA with whomever is better.
Here's the line:
disappointed FOR someone ||||| disappointed IN someone
That line should never be crossed for athletic results.
Always a big fan of Joe and always will be. Don’t think things are settled yet and still think he could do great things for us this year. Time will tell.
Context is important. My response was to a statement about whether Cael might punt this year. So "he" is correct.
I think everyone will be surprised when Joe comes out and starts rag dolling people. He's better than good and being in that room will only make him better
Harbaugh won the match with his nose over that booger.
I’d love to hear from Hoosier Lion as far as Joe Lee and his injury status, if that had a role in his wrestle off with BearClaw, etc.
I’ve watched BearClaw for 2 yrs now. I see a tough kid that has no go to offense and obviously has some bottom deficiencies.
I just can’t picture how he majored Joe Lee. I really can’t. Unless somehow he’s very good on top which we didn’t see last year or yesterday obviously he didn’t get the chance.
I’ve watched BearClaw for 2 yrs now. I see a tough kid that has no go to offense and obviously has some bottom deficiencies.
I just can’t picture how he majored Joe Lee. I really can’t. Unless somehow he’s very good on top which we didn’t see last year or yesterday obviously he didn’t get the chance.
I thought top was Terrell’s clear strength? Not sure where that idea is based on, but that is what I thought.
Bear Claw obviously was very disappointing last night. That being said, coming off an illness and first match as "the guy" in Rec Hall may have just been a horrible perfect storm for him. Quite obviously his result from last night needs to greatly improve or we will be seeing Joe Lee or somebody else, wrestle off victor or not.
Message board users occasionally have very poor memory retention. Excellent wrestlers sometimes lose early season matches. It happened to Cenzo. Hall got Carvered. Starocci lost to Washington just last year. I'm not saying that Barraclough is the caliber of any of those aforementioned national champions, but it's a bit hasty to bury the kid after the 3rd dual of the season.
That result was beyond unexpected. 9-0 vs #24 has us all rechecking our manhood just to confirm. Hartman had already lost this year to #52 and #24.
9-0 really? After Majoring Joe in wrestleoffs? Really?
So taking a step back from the knee jerk emotions of it, there has to have been something majorly (pun) wrong with Terrell last night. 9-0 doesn't pass the sniff test. Sure Zain can win vs #2 with a 102 fever but there is only one Zain.
I think we did get a glimpse that even if weakened from sickness the Claw didn't jump levels to tease for an outside shot at a low AA, but I think we all should pump the breaks a bit and accept that for whatever reason that was not the real 2021/22 TB.
9-0 really? After Majoring Joe in wrestleoffs? Really?
So taking a step back from the knee jerk emotions of it, there has to have been something majorly (pun) wrong with Terrell last night. 9-0 doesn't pass the sniff test. Sure Zain can win vs #2 with a 102 fever but there is only one Zain.
I think we did get a glimpse that even if weakened from sickness the Claw didn't jump levels to tease for an outside shot at a low AA, but I think we all should pump the breaks a bit and accept that for whatever reason that was not the real 2021/22 TB.
I'm not "burying" the kid. He has shown no go to offense in 2 yrs and can't get off bottom. I'm trying to wrap my head around how he beat Joe Lee. I hope we can have conversations here without people getting their panties in a bunch thinking people are "burying" someone. Hell if Bearclaw can come out and put in on opponents, I'm all for it.
Cenzo, Starocci and Hall all had go to offense even in those losses..totally different. Starocci and Cenzo got thrown on their backs and they both stormed back. Hall got "carvered" no doubt but the Iowa kid he lost to (name slipping my mind), was a 5th year senior, tough defensively and AA caliber
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We can all fight over this until we’re blue(r) in the face, but I think it is safe to say neither Joe nor ‘Claw are at their best right now.
Dings, illness, November. I’m willing to wait for more data before drawing a conclusion or worrying about our prospects at 157.
Dings, illness, November. I’m willing to wait for more data before drawing a conclusion or worrying about our prospects at 157.
As a big fan of the kid, 157 was definitely a disappointment. I bet none are more disappointed than Terrell. I was encouraged when I saw that he was getting the nod at 157, but frankly didn't expect him to have the man strength necessary to be a factor at that weight until 2022. You can check my back-patting posts in this thread.
So disappointment in last night's result aside, I'm still a believer in the kid. I'm betting he bounces back and shows us a little more of what he is capable of as the season wears on. But a few sips from Derek Fix's water bottle wouldn't hurt...that's a joke people...a joke.
So disappointment in last night's result aside, I'm still a believer in the kid. I'm betting he bounces back and shows us a little more of what he is capable of as the season wears on. But a few sips from Derek Fix's water bottle wouldn't hurt...that's a joke people...a joke.
I yearn for the day when we no longer have to make excuses for our lineup issues.
And Hall had just won the Scuffle prior to that in impressive fashion. From what we have seen from "Bearclaw" in the last 2 years, I would agree with your conclusions and think 157 could be a gaping hole.
Are you calling us wusses?
I enjoy how people care so much about someone beating another person in a wrestle off. It’s like claiming nick lee will beat yianni in folk style just because he last won in freestyle. Everyone has to relax, bear law and joe lee go at each other everyday in practice. By now especially with almost 2-3 years together, this outcome may happen from time to time. Shit joe lee could have been sick for all we know. At the end of the day, the best man will win the overall job. Let’s take a look at Zain and yianni. Recently H2H, Zain has won the matches but yianni seems to be the better wrestler vs international competition (just my opinion). At the end of the day, joe lee may wind up being the better wrestler vs other competition but against bear claw he wrestles more conservatively whereas bear claw has nothing to lose so he can open up more against joe lee. Either way we expect to much out of our team because we have continually been blessed with the same national champs/contenders for the last decade. Our wrestlers will take a loss once in and a while and that’s fine. There is a long time between now and March
The rankings are not fixed all year. Kids move up and down. Wrestlestat rankings reference.
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Its has, if he can do it ,why not.2 top 5 recruits should not be on the bench when no one is blocking them. Facundo 165 and van ness 157. Pedigree matters in college wrestling.
In the end results matter. Using pedigree as a predictor has merit. But predictions use models, either explicitly or not. There’s no use in using a model’s predictions when outcomes can be observed directly.
