I accept conditionally.
I need to research the data limit of this message board because re-posting the full volume of @GogglesPaizano nonsense may crash the site.
Future PSU Lineup discussions
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I need to research the data limit of this message board because re-posting the full volume of @GogglesPaizano nonsense may crash the site.
The board survived however many years of Turk.
Happy new years everyone! I really do love my brothers here despite the critiques of my manytimes questionable content.
If there's something I would like to be wrong about I wouldn't mind if it being underrating a penn state wrestler lol
I could see Haines going up again. He seems so super strong that I think he could. Does that help or hurt?
I am definitely impressed. We can't ask more of him at that size. Plus, I have been wrong before, and will be again in the future. Am I convinced with another year and maybe 15-20 more lbs of good weight, can Cole AA? In all honesty, not yet, but he is certainly starting to look the part.
The next year will be very interesting. Cole's biggest initial competition next year still might prove to be his brother.
Someone very good will be on the bench. I think there is an equal case to be made that it will be Ryder at 174 behind Levi, as I think that is his better weight and going up to 184 he will be small.
Then again if Barr can't or won't come back down to 184, I will stick by my assertion that even after another year of development, Barr beats Conner for 197, and if so, Conner might choose to go up. We should know by the summer.
I will agree with most of you that what makes the most sense on paper, giving us the strongest lineup is:
174 Levi (Ryder sits burning a year of eligibility)
184 Barr (comes back down)
197 Conner
Hwt Cole
Would I completely rule out?:
174 Levi
184 Ryder (goes up)
197 Barr (stays and beats Conner)
Hwt Cole or Conner (Cole sits)
No, I can't. I don't see how the later isn't maybe a 40/60 possibility.
The reality is we have 5 studs for 4 slots, and Cole on balance is probably the weakest of the 5 given an honest assessment.
Ultimately, It all comes down to what Josh decides to do. If the drop is easy, he probably will. If he finishes top 3 this year (I think he will), the decision to drop isn't a slam dunk.
Spot on, maybe they get creative and try to gray shirt Ryder? He’s pretty young isn’t he? But there’s even more coming behind him so who knows
Ryder AND Sealey will be sitting behind Haines next year with Henckel and Asher RSing at the weight as well.
That statement is way too definitive:
- Whether Ryder sits depends next season on what happens at 184.
- Sealey could begin his college career at 165.
- Henckel could be at 174 or 184 for his RS year, hard to tell. Could eventually end up at 197, though not right away.
- Probably right about Cunningham.
Indeed, however Rider's path to starter is pretty straight forward after Levi moves on in another year.
Sealey's path is much harder to define. Likely 1-2 weight classes below Ryder, he has SVN, Kasak/Facundo, and Mesenbrink guarding all weights above and below for several years to come. Then there is PJ coming in on his heals who I think may be the best recruit we have possibly ever.
If Sealy develops enough to start anywhere from 149-184 you can't help but have major respect and huge expectations for a run at Nationals. No doubt he has his work cut out for him.
Don’t forget about Henckel and Asher too coming in
I doubt Sealey is going to be a 165 by the time he is competing for a starting spot. First, Cael discourages tough cuts. Second, related to above, I'm guessing Duke will be 165, which makes more sense than Sealey since he's a year behind and won't spend an extra year waiting for MM to graduate. Duke may be able to make 157 while MM is still in the lineup and challenge Kasak for the position (which isn't exactly a gimme to win), but I think he will move up once 165 opens up. This is how I see the next couple years playing out:
2026 (next year)
157 Kasak vs Duke. Most likely Kasak wrestles, Duke RS.
165 MM (Junior)
174 Levi (Senior). Sealey backup, Henckel/Asher RS.
184 Barr vs Ryder. Most likely Barr unless he stays at 197.
197 Con. Mirasola. Possibly competing with Barr if he doesn't go back to 184.
HWT Cole Mirasola. Possibly competing with his brother if Barr stays at 197 and beats him.
2027
157 Kasak vs Duke. This is where it will be a struggle for Kasak to keep his spot.
165 MM (Senior)
174 Sealey v Ryder.
184 Barr vs Ryder if Ryder doesn't win 174
197 Con. Mirasola or Barr
HWT Cole Mirasola or Connor if he's not 197
2028
157 ? (Jax?)
165 Duke
174 Sealey vs Ryder
184 Barr vs Ryder
197 Connor or Barr
HWT Cole or Connor
If Barr comes back down, then Ryder has a choice of competing with Sealey for 174 or Barr at 184. If Barr wins the 184 spot, then Sealey has a choice of cutting to 165 and competing with Duke or staying at 174 and competing with Ryder. 174/Ryder seems like the easier path to me, but that's just brutal. I don't think there is a spot for both Ryder and Sealey if Barr comes down to 184 to make room for both Mirasolas.
Aaah - my head is spinning. The possibilities are endless. Filet mignon, lobster thermidore, Kobe beef, thin sliced frizzled Habbersett Scrpple, Bouillabaisse, Pat’s Cheesesteak, or Chilis Poblanos Con Huevo. Aaah …. we can’t have it all or we’ll get fat and complacent.
Cael said Sealey was injured and is now back wrestling and they are looking to get him some action going forward.
I think the most smooth path unfortunately is Connor likely sits next year and Josh/Zack move down the year after after Levi graduates and 174 vacates. Obviously that would be something Josh/Zack are willing to do or it might be something Connor ends up forcing himself if he develops at a fast rate and reaches the potential Ben has been harping on forever.
He’s down in the room right now.😉
At this point I’d be stunned if Barr moved down. It would be after another year of growth and adjusting to the weight and doing so, if it were even possible, would be to a huge detriment to him.
Connor just finds himself in a weird spot.
Somebody is going to be in a weird spot. Barr staying at 197 allows both Ryder and Sealey in the lineup, but pushes out one of the Mirasolas. Barr going back down makes room for both twins but pushes out either Sealey or Ryder.
You’re not considering the Rutgers defections
Sealey is going to Rutger to beat Gabe Arnold out of his spot. LOL.
I wouldn’t. Has the look of a hard-gainer. The second he ditches his creatine and diet, he’ll drop like 8 pounds in 3 days. FWIW, he certified this year weighing under 197. He might not want to head back down, but that’s what NIL is for.
Staying at 197 will allow Barr to continue to add good weight (he has mentioned he cuts a few pounds to make 197) while still being able to cut down to 86 kg for freestyle events. I believe wrestling 184 is less optimal for his freestyle pursuits as a cut down to 86kg from 197 seems like a better strategy than wrestling as a small (relatively) 86kg'er who comes up from 184 lbs. Cutting to 86 kg while wrestling 197 was successful for Bo and Aaron. Even Taylor was cutting a lot of weight at the end to make 86 kg.
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We all know Cael has a plan and we don't, but your summary is pretty accurate.
Barr will undoubtedly be the first domino to set off the chain of events. My opinion is both Ryder and Duke will not be denied a spot by anyone short of Levi or Mitchell.
What is also clear is we have a whole list of incoming hammers that leveled up to GOAT like status under Carl's tutelidge. Bo, Zain, Jason all exceeded initial expectations. I won't deny that Sealy might just be one of the next to transform into something very special. Looking solely at his highschool career I would not put him on Zack or PJs level.
I am greedy, I am a fan of each of them, and want to see all in blue and white. Heck if one or more are satisfied with a 2-3 year starter career, there are ways to make things work. We will even have another oly redshirt cycle come in to play.
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I don't disagree with any of this except that I would put Connor Mirasola in the same category of "won't be denied by anyone" as Duke and Ryder based on pedigree (yes, despite the loss this year...), and he's clearly best as a 197. So, if Duke is 165, Ryder 174, and Mirasola 197 and they are the hammers of the hammers, that leaves 184 for Barr. If Barr is steadfast about 197, there isn't a spot for him at PSU, and 184 is probably open for Henckel (I don't see Sealey bulking up that far), who is quite a "plan B".
There are going to be some really interesting position battles in the next couple years between Kasak and Duke (until 165 opens up for Duke) and Barr and Mirasola as the entrenched starters, who will likely be at least very high AAs, try to fend off the all-world recruits.
We keep mentioning Barr potentially dropping to 184, but is there any chance that Conner Mirasola drops to 184?
He may not have a choice but given his body type I think it would be very difficult. He’d have to drop some muscle for sure
Someone earlier mentioned Cael discourages weight cuts. He may have discouraged Alex, but didn’t keep him from dropping to 157.
Instead of assuming someone gets bumped out, maybe look at some guys not starting for 4 years. May be a long shot, but I can see the following playing out starting next year:
Connor at 197
Barr moving down to 184 next year
Ryder dropping to 174 and waiting a year behind Levi
Sealy staying at 165 and waiting 2 years behind MM
PJ redshirting, then staying at 157
Tyler stays at 157 next year. If he loses out to PJ the following year, he challenges Shayne at 149
Blaze takes over 141 after BB
Instead of assuming someone gets bumped out, maybe look at some guys not starting for 4 years. May be a long shot, but I can see the following playing out starting next year:
Connor at 197
Barr moving down to 184 next year
Ryder dropping to 174 and waiting a year behind Levi
Sealy staying at 165 and waiting 2 years behind MM
PJ redshirting, then staying at 157
Tyler stays at 157 next year. If he loses out to PJ the following year, he challenges Shayne at 149
Blaze takes over 141 after BB
My worry is that pushing out either Mirasola means pushing out both Mirasolas.
That was me and while occasionally someone will attempt a pretty tough cut to get to an open spot, there is no way in hell he'll have a starting lineup where Kasak, Duke, Sealey, Ryder, and Barr are all down a class. That's downright Okiestatey.
Those boys roll together. But that knife cuts both ways. One has a great situation and that can mean the other isn't going anywhere.
I just want to make this abundantly clear as I’ve seen several people saying it: Unless Mirasola just goes and takes the position, Josh Barr is not going to see 184 ever again. And given the way Josh Barr has looked, it’s hard to see him losing the position.
Maybe I'm misremembering but doesn't Kasak still have a redshirt he could take to help this juggling act?
I know. But perspectives tend to change over time. Read what Carter was saying about his extra year for a very long time ... if we're speculating at this point, there is an option for Kasak to redshirt and then neither he nor Duke lose a year.
If you tried to explain this logjam to a non-wrestling fan the best way would be to use baseball. Imagine you have these five guys to choose from for three outfield spots: Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth and Stan Musial. Or basketball and you can only start five guys: Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Dr. J, Shaq, Kareem and Wilt.
It's stupid but it's awesome because it's driving every other program nuts. How can the two rabid badgers in Iowa go to the donors and explain why they can't get top talent because these kids would rather be backups at PSU than starters for them?
It's stupid but it's awesome because it's driving every other program nuts. How can the two rabid badgers in Iowa go to the donors and explain why they can't get top talent because these kids would rather be backups at PSU than starters for them?
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