GOT: Season 7 finale

[wbcincy]

You make a lot of valid points and are well known as a long time GoT fan. As I said previously, I quit trying to make perfect the enemy of 'near-perfect' or 'pretty damn good,' which is what I would say about this season. I think part of it is as fans, we're used to not getting what we want and now that the end is nigh, we're getting basically not only what we want (Jon and Dany! Dragons! FREAKIN' ICE DRAGONS!! Arya and Sansa kill Littlefinger!! Bronn and Tyrion!! The Hound and Brienne!! Jaime and Brienne!!), but what we know *has* to happen. I didn't have a big problem overall with most of the finale and thought everything was a real return to earlier storytelling (character driven). My biggest issue was Dany deploying her ENTIRE army to King's Landing for a show of force. Dany - two dragons will be more than enough to have the Mountain pissing his pants. I guess it makes some sense since they have to go North anyway.

As for Sansa and Arya's 'private' conversations that don't make sense if they are truly alone, my assumption is that they assume Littlefinger is *always* listening and that they have to keep up the ruse at all times just in case. I mean, if you didn't love that scene with Littlefinger begging for his life you may be beyond reproach.....

The culminations were all fantastic. The ice dragon blasting the wall, Littlefinger's smugness turning so quickly to terror and begging, etc. I just wished i could've enjoyed them more by how we got there. The first 6 seasons just felt so perfect, it's been tough to swallow a sudden clumsiness in the plots. But I'm certain you're right, I need to calm down and enjoy it.

 

[lionroar88]

You make a lot of valid points and are well known as a long time GoT fan. As I said previously, I quit trying to make perfect the enemy of 'near-perfect' or 'pretty damn good,' which is what I would say about this season. I think part of it is as fans, we're used to not getting what we want and now that the end is nigh, we're getting basically not only what we want (Jon and Dany! Dragons! FREAKIN' ICE DRAGONS!! Arya and Sansa kill Littlefinger!! Bronn and Tyrion!! The Hound and Brienne!! Jaime and Brienne!!), but what we know *has* to happen. I didn't have a big problem overall with most of the finale and thought everything was a real return to earlier storytelling (character driven). My biggest issue was Dany deploying her ENTIRE army to King's Landing for a show of force. Dany - two dragons will be more than enough to have the Mountain pissing his pants. I guess it makes some sense since they have to go North anyway.

As for Sansa and Arya's 'private' conversations that don't make sense if they are truly alone, my assumption is that they assume Littlefinger is *always* listening and that they have to keep up the ruse at all times just in case. I mean, if you didn't love that scene with Littlefinger begging for his life you may be beyond reproach.....

My biggest issue with this season is they cut it by 3 episodes. The writers cut it, not HBO. HBO wanted a full 10 episode season and the writers cut it by 3... see the 'negotiations' that are underway for Season 8. That is rather telling. There could have been so much more this season with 3 additional episodes... and what 'franchise' just cuts itself off when it is #1! Seriously, would anyone have been disappointed to see GoT fun for 10 seasons? Yes it was slow and methodical - that was part of its grandeur!

Without Martin the writers lost their creativity for the show and that is sad.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Or about Jon's true lineage until then?

Guess it's a growth process. As he was becoming the 3-eyed raven in a rush after being touched by the Night's King, he asked his predecessor whether he was ready. The answer was NO.

 

[Talpsu]

My biggest issue with this season is they cut it by 3 episodes. The writers cut it, not HBO. HBO wanted a full 10 episode season and the writers cut it by 3... see the 'negotiations' that are underway for Season 8. That is rather telling. There could have been so much more this season with 3 additional episodes... and what 'franchise' just cuts itself off when it is #1! Seriously, would anyone have been disappointed to see GoT fun for 10 seasons? Yes it was slow and methodical - that was part of its grandeur!

Without Martin the writers lost their creativity for the show and that is sad.

Ding ding ding!!!! I have the same issue with this season. I get that they wanted to wrap it up and stories needed to come to a close but it was the writers that chose to go with the fewer episodes and forced the rush job. Like you said, just look at the negotiations going on with season 8. Very telling at what went down here imo

 

[canuckhal]

What's the rumor on when Season 8 commences? Anything out there yet?

2018 or early 2019. Right now production schedule begins in Oct., but still dependent on when the writers finish their scripts and production can start. Another complication is the amount of special effects, which require a separate production schedule.

The number of episodes have been set with 6 episodes that may be longer.

The good news is that current writers are working on the scripts so no new writers.

From Watchers on the Wall.

With Game of Thrones season 7 wrapping up next week (nuts, right?!), our eyes are naturally looking ahead at the future, toward season 8. Thankfully, the show has jumped right into pre-production for the final season so there will be little lag time between the end of season 7, and the beginning of the filming of the next. The show’s first AD mentioned he’s already at work on season 8, and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has confirmed filming will resume in October, which means that the hard-working crews of Fire and Blood Productions are already back at it in Northern Ireland, where most of Game of Thrones’ magic happens.

And from GOT wiki.

At their SXSW panel on March 12, 2017, Benioff and Weiss announced that Season 8 will consist of the originally planned six episodes. No new writers will be introduced: Dave Hill will write the first episode, Bryan Cogman the second episode, then Benioff and Weiss will divide up the remaining four. George R.R. Martin will not be returning to script another episode. The final season could contain multiple episodes of up to two hours long in length and could be the longest season to date, even though the season only contains 6 episodes.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Heck, you want predictable how about the scene is movie #1 when that fire breathing demon used his whip to pull Gandalf down into that abyss .... and somehow Gandalf lived???

You're in my wheelhouse with the LOTR reference. Gandalf the Grey did not survive that battle with the Balrog. Instead, we got Gandalf the White. A suggestion of the theological with that "resurrection."

 

[Lyons212]

My biggest issue with this season is they cut it by 3 episodes. The writers cut it, not HBO. HBO wanted a full 10 episode season and the writers cut it by 3... see the 'negotiations' that are underway for Season 8. That is rather telling. There could have been so much more this season with 3 additional episodes... and what 'franchise' just cuts itself off when it is #1! Seriously, would anyone have been disappointed to see GoT fun for 10 seasons? Yes it was slow and methodical - that was part of its grandeur!

Without Martin the writers lost their creativity for the show and that is sad.

You would think that everyone involved with GOT with the possible exception of the actors would want to keep it going as long as possible for the money.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

You would think that everyone involved with GOT with the possible exception of the actors would want to keep it going as long as possible for the money.

That is what the spin-off(s) is for....

 

[LafayetteBear]

The culminations were all fantastic. The ice dragon blasting the wall, Littlefinger's smugness turning so quickly to terror and begging, etc. I just wished i could've enjoyed them more by how we got there. The first 6 seasons just felt so perfect, it's been tough to swallow a sudden clumsiness in the plots. But I'm certain you're right, I need to calm down and enjoy it.

This series has been SO GOOD, and the acceleration of plot developments so sudden, that it is easy (and perhaps tempting) to find fault. But I like Midnighter's quoting of the old line about not letting perfection become the enemy of the good.

For example, remember all of that discussion about how the army of the dead was gonna get past the Wall, and all the posts noting the difference between the depiction of the Wall in intros for the current season vs. intros for prior seasons? The current year intro showed ice to the seaward side of Eastwatch (Eastmarch?) castle. Apparently, the army of the dead was just gonna walk around the end of the Wall/Castle on a sheet of ice. But last night's finale showed the Wall extending all the way to the water's edge. And then Viseryon (do I have that name down correctly?) just mooted the whole issue by blasting the hell out of the Wall with his blue fire.

Ehh, it made for entertaining viewing, and the series has been so good that so I can live with some of the plot inconsistencies, whether apparent or actual. I'm just a little bummed out at the realization that it comes to an end next year.

BTW, my wife (who is also way into this series) is convinced (for some reason) that Cersei is NOT carrying Jaime's baby, and that she's gonna have some kind of demon/monster baby. I'm not buying it, but I'm also not at all sure that Jaime is the father. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Woodpecker]

That is what the spin-off(s) is for....

Ah yes, Breaking Cold with the Night King as Walter Wight managing his drug empire based off his Blue Ice.
No? Better Call Samwell? Big Bron Theory? Hot in Kings Landing? Dreadfort Dynasty? Survivor: Dothrak? Highgarden Abbey?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Ah yes, Breaking Cold with the Night King as Walter Wight managing his drug empire based off his Blue Ice.
No? Better Call Samwell? Big Bron Theory? Hot in Kings Landing? Dreadfort Dynasty? Survivor: Dothrak? Highgarden Abbey?

'No One's Home'?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

This series has been SO GOOD, and the acceleration of plot developments so sudden, that it is easy (and perhaps tempting) to find fault. But I like Midnighter's quoting of the old line about not letting perfection become the enemy of the good.

For example, remember all of that discussion about how the army of the dead was gonna get past the Wall, and all the posts noting the difference between the depiction of the Wall in intros for the current season vs. intros for prior seasons? The current year intro showed ice to the seaward side of Eastwatch (Eastmarch?) castle. Apparently, the army of the dead was just gonna walk around the end of the Wall/Castle on a sheet of ice. But last night's finale showed the Wall extending all the way to the water's edge. And then Viseryon (do I have that name down correctly?) just mooted the whole issue by blasting the hell out of the Wall with his blue fire.

Ehh, it made for entertaining viewing, and the series has been so good that so I can live with some of the plot inconsistencies, whether apparent or actual. I'm just a little bummed out at the realization that it comes to an end next year.

BTW, my wife (who is also way into this series) is convinced (for some reason) that Cersei is NOT carrying Jaime's baby, and that she's gonna have some kind of demon/monster baby. I'm not buying it, but I'm also not at all sure that Jaime is the father. Any thoughts on this?

Well, Maggy the Frog says Cersei will only have three children - and they would all die (so, Maggy is two for two there). Her other predictions?

1. A younger, more beautiful woman will be her undoing.

Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.[3]

2. Cersei will die at the hands of the 'valonqar' (this is said to mean 'brother', or 'little brother', or 'sibling')...

Cersei: Will the king and I have children?
Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

And because it's just so damn cool, more Viserion....

 

[tboyer]

Just relieved the Stark kids got their act together re Littlefinger. Sansa: I'm a slow learner but I do learn. So I guess that means after the Arya/Sansa confrontation over the Sansa letter, Arya cooled down, the two of them talked it through and compared notes with Bran, and then Sansa decided it was too dangerous to keep Littlefinger around. Looking back, the show gave us plenty of foreshadowing that Baelish had become arrogant and underestimated all three Stark kids.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Just relieved the Stark kids got their act together re Littlefinger. Sansa: I'm a slow learner but I do learn. So I guess that means after the Arya/Sansa confrontation over the Sansa letter, Arya cooled down, the two of them talked it through and compared notes with Bran, and then Sansa decided it was too dangerous to keep Littlefinger around. Looking back, the show gave us plenty of foreshadowing that Baelish had become arrogant and underestimated all three Stark kids.

The show is still doing a lot right and I think they really nailed how Littlefinger was dealt with. Lots apparently happening off screen and I thought it really interesting how Sansa mentioned that Littlefinger played their mother and aunt against each other in similar fashion. Sansa *has* learned, but both she and Arya seem to have overlooked how Littlefinger helped them (mostly to help himself) in times of need (killed Joffrey with Olena, took Sansa away - downside is, sold her to the Boltons; didn't tell Tywin that Arya was his cupbearer....). Bottom line is he helped kill their father, definitely killed their aunt, and is mostly responsible for all the Stark troubles - so, you die.

 

[canuckhal]

Just relieved the Stark kids got their act together re Littlefinger. Sansa: I'm a slow learner but I do learn. So I guess that means after the Arya/Sansa confrontation over the Sansa letter, Arya cooled down, the two of them talked it through and compared notes with Bran, and then Sansa decided it was too dangerous to keep Littlefinger around. Looking back, the show gave us plenty of foreshadowing that Baelish had become arrogant and underestimated all three Stark kids.

There is no reason to think that maester (or the person) who gave Littlefinger the note did not also tell Arya or Sansa so they already knew about it, or gave it to them at the request of Sansa/Arya. Since Sansa wrote the note, of course she knew it existed, but may not have known there was a copy in Winterfell.

Sansa indicated that it was Arya who had come out with the plan so they knew Baelish would be spying on them.

At what point did Arya inform Sansa of the plan? That would be a good question. Certainly, Arya let Baelish know that she was following him and put on a performance with Brienne when she saw Baelish. So Arya had planned it shortly after arriving in Winterfell and may have discussed with Bran and the maester before informing Sansa. Really doesn't matter, but possible.

 

[razpsu]

what did the dragon use to destroy the wall

 

[lionroar88]

The show is still doing a lot right and I think they really nailed how Littlefinger was dealt with. Lots apparently happening off screen and I thought it really interesting how Sansa mentioned that Littlefinger played their mother and aunt against each other in similar fashion. Sansa *has* learned, but both she and Arya seem to have overlooked how Littlefinger helped them (mostly to help himself) in times of need (killed Joffrey with Olena, took Sansa away - downside is, sold her to the Boltons; didn't tell Tywin that Arya was his cupbearer....). Bottom line is he helped kill their father, definitely killed their aunt, and is mostly responsible for all the Stark troubles - so, you die.

And... "You are trying to play us against each other, we've figured out your plot before it could be 'executed' and now we are 'executing' you." I think Bran went back through the years and played back Baelish's deeds and confirmed all of this for Sansa and Arya. I don't think 'showing' when the plan was devised and communicated was necessary - the plan was revealed during Sansa's declaration of verdict. Was one of my favorite scenes all season... "I am Lord Commander of The Aerie. I demand you return me safely to The Vail." "I don't think so." dum dum dum... you're D E A D... deal with it.

 

[lionroar88]

what did the dragon use to destroy the wall

Blue Fire

 

[razpsu]

And what is that. Is it fire? is it ice? Is is really really hot Fire? Lol

 

[lionroar88]

And what is that. Is it fire? is it ice? Is is really really hot Fire? Lol

Since the wall kept the walkers out with 'magic'... I guess it is anti-magic?

 

[NedFromYork]

So was Varys involved in Littlefinger's plot? Seems someone so well connected would not have been so easily duped so close to the the principals in season 1.

 

[canuckhal]

And what is that. Is it fire? is it ice? Is is really really hot Fire? Lol

Yep. https://www.inverse.com/article/35942-blue-fire-flame-dragons-viserion-game-of-thrones-finale

 

[LafayetteBear]

And what is that. Is it fire? is it ice? Is is really really hot Fire? Lol

Will it make me sweat?

http://www.cultjer.com/video/eddie-murphy-as-james-brown

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Since the wall kept the walkers out with 'magic'... I guess it is anti-magic?

Dragons have a distinct place in GoT lore - they're considered 'magical' creatures and I think that means their fire is different/more powerful than regular fire. It's why weapons forged with Valaryian Steel are also magical/able to kill White Walkers.

Maybe someone with more book knowledge can chime in...

 

[scottpsurules]

Guess it's a growth process. As he was becoming the 3-eyed raven in a rush after being touched by the Night's King, he asked his predecessor whether he was ready. The answer was NO.

Pretty sure he gets his knowledge by going back and having the visions. Don't think he is quite old enough(tic) to have seen everything that has happened in everyone else's life at this point. His not knowing about the wedding and then going back to confirm, actually made sense to moi....

 

[wbcincy]

So just putting this out there...it's been discussed by some online. Is Bran the Night King?

We know he can warg into people in the past (see Hodor). We also know that the former Three Eyed Raven told him not to stay in the past too long or you can drown. What if Bran went back in time to warg into the human who would become the Night King to try to stop the Children of the Forest from creating him. But he stays too long gets stuck in him and forever in the Night King. Maybe explains the Night King being able to see/touch Bran (himself).

This series has been SO GOOD, and the acceleration of plot developments so sudden, that it is easy (and perhaps tempting) to find fault. But I like Midnighter's quoting of the old line about not letting perfection become the enemy of the good.

For example, remember all of that discussion about how the army of the dead was gonna get past the Wall, and all the posts noting the difference between the depiction of the Wall in intros for the current season vs. intros for prior seasons? The current year intro showed ice to the seaward side of Eastwatch (Eastmarch?) castle. Apparently, the army of the dead was just gonna walk around the end of the Wall/Castle on a sheet of ice. But last night's finale showed the Wall extending all the way to the water's edge. And then Viseryon (do I have that name down correctly?) just mooted the whole issue by blasting the hell out of the Wall with his blue fire.

Ehh, it made for entertaining viewing, and the series has been so good that so I can live with some of the plot inconsistencies, whether apparent or actual. I'm just a little bummed out at the realization that it comes to an end next year.

BTW, my wife (who is also way into this series) is convinced (for some reason) that Cersei is NOT carrying Jaime's baby, and that she's gonna have some kind of demon/monster baby. I'm not buying it, but I'm also not at all sure that Jaime is the father. Any thoughts on this?

I don't think she's pregnant at all. Both times its come up, it was for her to use it. First, to regain Jamie's loyalty (though that's gone now that she has a better army anyway) and second to allow Tyrion to believe her being pregnant provided an opening to convince her to help fight the dead.

Anyone have any thoughts on why gave the disapproving look when Jon went in Dany's bedroom?

 

[NittanyChris]

I still love the series and this episode was fantastic. So much great stuff with all the mini reunions going on.
My biggest qualm this season was not the time travel or acceleration of the plots (which I do think was somewhat inevitable with the vast multitude of story lines), but it was the notion that Tyrion, who is so smart and knows Cersei probably as well as anyone, would come up with such a completely moronic plan as to "convince" Cersei that the greater good was at stake by bringing her one of the Undead. Did ANYONE really believe for a second that Cersei would give up her quest for domination to be a team player? Seriously, that is one stupid plan and story line.
Other than that...I think this season was excellent!

 

[LafayetteBear]

I don't think she's pregnant at all. Both times its come up, it was for her to use it. First, to regain Jamie's loyalty (though that's gone now that she has a better army anyway) and second to allow Tyrion to believe her being pregnant provided an opening to convince her to help fight the dead.

Anyone have any thoughts on why gave the disapproving look when Jon went in Dany's bedroom?

If she was not pregnant, she's gonna be caught up in that lie pretty quickly. I guess she could feign a miscarriage, but I just don't see enough upside in her feigning pregnancy to begin with. It sure did not keep Jamie loyal for long.

As for Tyrion's disapproving look, that union between Dany and Jon will effectively distance him a bit from Dany, because Jon will now be either her Hand or her co-ruler. He'll be in between Tyrion and Dany.

 

[canuckhal]

I still love the series and this episode was fantastic. So much great stuff with all the mini reunions going on.
My biggest qualm this season was not the time travel or acceleration of the plots (which I do think was somewhat inevitable with the vast multitude of story lines), but it was the notion that Tyrion, who is so smart and knows Cersei probably as well as anyone, would come up with such a completely moronic plan as to "convince" Cersei that the greater good was at stake by bringing her one of the Undead. Did ANYONE really believe for a second that Cersei would give up her quest for domination to be a team player? Seriously, that is one stupid plan and story line.
Other than that...I think this season was excellent!

On the plus side, Cersei acted exactly as one would expect. She gained valuable intel.

Something had to happen to (a) get Dany beyond the wall with her dragons, so the Night King could gain a dragon and (b) have the scene with everybody together. That scene set-up the next season.

So, while I agree it was a stupid plan from the characters perspective, what else could the writers have come up with? I'm not sure other than a big battle beyond the wall. But Dany at that point wasn't convinced that Night King was real and something needed to happen so that Jon and her could hook up.

From a writer's perspective, this concoction probably played out better than the alternatives discussed.

 

[NittanyChris]

On the plus side, Cersei acted exactly as one would expect. She gained valuable intel.

Something had to happen to (a) get Dany beyond the wall with her dragons, so the Night King could gain a dragon and (b) have the scene with everybody together. That scene set-up the next season.

So, while I agree it was a stupid plan from the characters perspective, what else could the writers have come up with? I'm not sure other than a big battle beyond the wall. But Dany at that point wasn't convinced that Night King was real and something needed to happen so that Jon and her could hook up.

From a writer's perspective, this concoction probably played out better than the alternatives discussed.

If you're suggesting that there was no other more plausible way to provide the Night King with an opportunity to gain a dragon than that harebrained scheme, I have to respectfully disagree.

Just quickly off the top of my head, though Dany would naturally be skeptical of Jon Snow, whom she only recently met, she trusted Jorah Mormont practically more than anyone. Jorah certainly respected his father, Jeor, as a man of honor, despite their estrangement, and since Jeor saw White Walkers himself there could have been some mechanism where Jorah became more acutely aware of his father's experience with the Undead and Jorah could convince Dany of their reality and danger.

And that is just for starters. The idea that anyone really thought they could convince Cersei to join the team is just beyond ludicrous.

Anyway...the show is STILL amazing despite this gaffe. Can't believe it's a full year to the final season!

 

[Eurotrash1]

I made the mistake of going to YouTube and watched Talking Thrones. I knew what was coming in the last 2 episodes before they were broadcast. Spoilers are definitely spoilers.

 

[wbcincy]

I made the mistake of going to YouTube and watched Talking Thrones. I knew what was coming in the last 2 episodes before they were broadcast. Spoilers are definitely spoilers.

Yeah it's the unfortunate inevitability of wrapping everything up. It becomes much more predictable.

 

[TripletLions]

i wonder how they'll tell us that Tyrion is a Targaryan. That subject hasn't even come up on the show except he was able to be near the dragons.

 

[dunkej01]

I cant imagine Bran being the knight king. The writers know that story is on the net and they arent going to copy that.

but I think Bran dies next season when the white walkers take winterfell.

 

[BiochemPSU]

Finally got to see the last episode. Overall, it was fine.

I needed a Mountain and Jamie fight. I am okay with Jamie surviving said fight, (maybe Cersei calls Mountain off) but I needed a physical act to confirm the break from his sister. Otherwise just words.

Littlefinger's character suffered the most from a lack of any books to draw material from. All he did was sulk around winterfell. No real motive or plan until Arya showed up. Shouldn't it be a bigger deal that Bran/Professor X can see everything? He is essentially a god. Maybe that should have been a bigger spotlight during the "trial" of Littlefinger?" Finally something Littlefinger couldn't see or anticipate, a guy who can see and anticipate everything?

The Sam/Bran exchange should have happened next season. No need to rush it. Especially with an "oh yeah, I just so happened to read something about that not too long ago!" line.

I guess no one cared to ask about Ellaria Sand at the King's meeting.

I think what got lost with the "show and tell" with the dead army soldier was the idea that in this world people are almost powerless against and therefore terrified of magical creatures; they don't live in harmony with them (except for the Targ dragons or Stark dire wolves and even they kill people on a whim). Think the wildlings north of the wall with Mance Rayder who were so desperate to get out of the way of the dead that they launched an attack on the wall to try to get out of the north. Cersei alludes to it for a bit saying that I guess that white walkers and dragons are all real and not kid tales. Since these are real magical end of world type events, the non magical people have little chance of surviving. In that setting, it would make her choice to look out for herself all the more psychotic. Instead, I thought she actually came off as somewhat smart; you have the dragons and the bigger army, just go beat them and I'll clean up the mess if you survive. If you don't survive, oh well, I couldn't win against you or this undead army anyway. I think the show lost the fear/powerless factor theme at some point and made this undead army about large trash mobs instead of a fewer amount of very powerful magically powered white walker individuals.

 

[Woodpecker]

Shouldn't it be a bigger deal that Bran/Professor X can see everything? He is essentially a god.

It's more like he's someone with access to the internet while everyone else has nothing. He hasn't seen everything but he can look it up when prompted. As he did with the marriage after Sam mentioned it.

 

[dunkej01]

It's more like he's someone with access to the internet while everyone else has nothing. He hasn't seen everything but he can look it up when prompted. As he did with the marriage after Sam mentioned it.

Which should make him really dangerous. He should now be able to go and watch the cersei and jamie map room discussion and then relay that the lannisters arent coming. It would also let them know what Cersie is doing with the golden co. which could be headed off.

This then could lead to get word to Jaime to stop off at River Run and bring Edmure Tully with his forces under him north. Also this betrayal could be enough to push Arya south to finish off her list.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Which should make him really dangerous. He should now be able to go and watch the cersei and jamie map room discussion and then relay that the lannisters arent coming. It would also let them know what Cersie is doing with the golden co. which could be headed off.

This then could lead to get word to Jaime to stop off at River Run and bring Edmure Tully with his forces under him north. Also this betrayal could be enough to push Arya south to finish off her list.

One of two things (or both) will happen there - either Jaime will tell everyone that Cersei has no intention of helping out and that is thst, or Bran will be taken care of.

 

[Hero17]

No one is talking about Tormund, I really hope he survived at East Watch but it doesn't look good.
I really want to see he and Brienne get together. They don't have to show anythings, just the horrified faces of servants passing by a door hearing their sounds of sweet monkey love.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

No one is talking about Tormund, I really hope he survived at East Watch but it doesn't look good.
I really want to see he and Brienne get together. They don't have to show anythings, just the horrified faces of servants passing by a door hearing their sounds of sweet monkey love.

Most in the know say 'if you didn't see him die, he likely didn't.' I would agree though Eastwatch basically collapsed in on itself.