MBB vs Wisconsin @ 8:30
- Thread starter bdgan
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And probably staring at a 7-13 conf record (maybe worse and could be 5-15, yeah we may not win again....can Minny forfeit?). I do think the blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while theory kicks in and we can pick up at least one other win.
Shrews is a good coach and a good hire in my opinion but yellow flags starting to surface....
-Lack of improvement is a big issue
-Lack of mental toughness
-Fundamentals are spotty
All leading to losing many close games that are winnable. Tonight is exhibit A.
Got to clean this up to borrow a Franklin phrase. If we miss the Dance this year which looks to be a safe bet then and I hate to say it but his seat will be warm next season. If no Dance next season then not sure he lives to see another day or not. Will depend on recruiting and development/progress of young guys. His challenge is immense, how to instill a winning culture into a program that is a perennial losing program.
Who is Larry Scirotto? Why did the NCAA referee discriminate against 'White' people?
Larry Scirotto, a big ten referee who has worked with the tournament for well over a decade as an official had lost his job in law enforcement for racial discrimination. The former officer was sacked from his position on March 3rd after being accused of racial discrimination against his own...
firstsportz.com
Well he is only moonlighting as a ref. Read this and think about his personal financials right now… think he might need some extra money from a few side wagers? He’s been punking PSU for almost 15 years and he magically showed up tonight every time we got close or took the lead. Not saying we played a great game … but it was an OT game where every call (and yes that BS OT tip toss) mattered.
I was trying to soften the blow...u are right. Both hoops programs suck, baseball, softball....Kraft turning at least a couple around into ncaa postseason programs would be nice.
Your bullet points of lacking mental toughness and fundamentals issues is exactly right. And when do we usually see those creep up… in these close losses that Penn state has had all season long…. whether it be to Clemson or Wisconsin or Michigan state or Virginia Tech it is just happening over and over and over. and considering we have the oldest team in the country....extremely disappointing
Again I’ll ask, who ya got? Give me one name of a proven coach that will come here? And even getting a proven coach doesn’t mean we’ll win unless we get Coach K to come out of retirement and that’s not happening.
He’s not going anywhere unless he decides to. PSU basketball doesn’t have a hot seat.
Exactly...therein lies the issue...or has been the issue. I think Kraft's mentality will be different and won't put up with crap teams for very long. I think both basketball coaches need to be on high alert to make the tournament in the next two seasons....baseball, softball, etc. Our spring sports (as someone pointed out earlier) have been total cheeks and an embarrassment over decades now. No reason why we can't be competitive and vying for conference and tournament spots. After all, unless I heard differently, I believe Kraft alluded to something of that fact our athletic programs should be competing for championships.
Before he took the Miami job, Jim Larranaga would have been great. What a job he has done at Miami, a truly moribund and inconsistent program before he got there.
Let's give Coach at least time to get his own recruits on the court. We have the best possible guy for this job on our bench (for now).
WE are talking about potentially firing him? HE has more power and marketability than we do. Our best case scenario will be that we tank next year with youth getting playing time and we get hood before little Shrew and little Booth graduate. Their ties to PSU and the fact that their fathers are well compensated will mean that they won't go running for NIL money.
At that point Coach either decides he loves it in State College and stays or (more likely) he moves on to a bigger job closer to his parents and hometown.
I think he may be gone to ND. Time will tell.
WE are talking about potentially firing him? HE has more power and marketability than we do. Our best case scenario will be that we tank next year with youth getting playing time and we get hood before little Shrew and little Booth graduate. Their ties to PSU and the fact that their fathers are well compensated will mean that they won't go running for NIL money.
At that point Coach either decides he loves it in State College and stays or (more likely) he moves on to a bigger job closer to his parents and hometown.
I think he may be gone to ND. Time will tell.
Please. This program is going nowhere. You'll be saying the same thing five years from now when the next coach is in the middle of another disastrous season.
If PSU can't beat some of these below average Big 10 teams like Wisconsin this year, especially at home, when are they going to beat them; Wisconsin has stunk for the most part in 2023? Of course, two of their wins in 2023 are against PSU. You want to know how good Wisconsin is this year; Northwestern, which is a decent team, just beat them at Wisconsin for the second time this season this past Sunday. As I said after the debacle in Nebraska, PSU couldn't beat Wisconsin if the Badgers played just with three players for the whole game.
This program is in a constant state of flux and rebuilding and always more than three bricks shy of a load, and I believe that we're all tired of hearing about next season. Next season is this season, and the season after, and the season after that one. This program is an embarrassment and a waste of whatever money is spent on it.
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Jim Boeheim accused PITT, Miami U, and another ACC team of "purchasing a team". This was in a recent interview.Of course, Syracuse bball program hasn't exactly been squeaky clean during his tenure. The point was $ now talks even more in college bball recruiting. We do know high school AAU bball has been corrupt for decades.
I really don't know what the solution is for PSU basketball. This team just hasn't stepped up. The B1G was fluid enough this year that they should have been able to make the tournament. Fundamentals continue to lack for PSU bball. Unfortunately they have tanked once again. Next year....?
I don't see "fundamentals" as being an issue at all with this year's squad...best team in the country at protecting the basketball, a very good defensive rebounding team despite being very undersized, a good FT shooting team, etc.
The issue pretty much stems back to being undersized in the frontcourt. Lundy is a 3 that's being forced to play the 4 or 5...he's a tremendous defender out on the wing, but not guarding the post against good bigs. At the 5, Njie isn't ready to guard Big Ten post players, we're not using Henn enough (and he's much better offensively than defensively anyways), Dorsey is undersized, Dread is way undersized, etc. Teams get the ball to the post, and we're forced to either let them eat up our bigs, or double which leaves them open on the perimeter. Given our personnel, the answer to me was to either play much more aggressively on D with trapping or picking up full court to at least slow down the offenses and not give them as much time to pick us apart, or to mix in more zone. But at this point, I think we're going to live or die with our M2M strategy.
This is the best team we've had offensively in a generation, however our D is relatively average. We were always going to be a bubble team that needed some breaks, but we're 0-4 in one possession or OT games. If that's just 2-2, we're still sitting on the right side of the bubble.
The issue pretty much stems back to being undersized in the frontcourt. Lundy is a 3 that's being forced to play the 4 or 5...he's a tremendous defender out on the wing, but not guarding the post against good bigs. At the 5, Njie isn't ready to guard Big Ten post players, we're not using Henn enough (and he's much better offensively than defensively anyways), Dorsey is undersized, Dread is way undersized, etc. Teams get the ball to the post, and we're forced to either let them eat up our bigs, or double which leaves them open on the perimeter. Given our personnel, the answer to me was to either play much more aggressively on D with trapping or picking up full court to at least slow down the offenses and not give them as much time to pick us apart, or to mix in more zone. But at this point, I think we're going to live or die with our M2M strategy.
This is the best team we've had offensively in a generation, however our D is relatively average. We were always going to be a bubble team that needed some breaks, but we're 0-4 in one possession or OT games. If that's just 2-2, we're still sitting on the right side of the bubble.
I do think it's the frontcourt. I think Shrews tried to disguise it by talking up Pickett as if his ability to back a guy into the paint was going to be enough to kick to open shooters out on the perimeter.
Well, that worked for a bit but teams are learning how to stop that and it seems to me that these recent changes in the starting lineup are a search for something, anything that works. But it doesn't work when the other team can just dominate in the paint and guard the perimeter because we don't have real threats in the paint.
I think it changes after Shrews recruits are in for a couple of years. We have some size inbound but for example, Booth will likely get pushed around early, just like Njie wasn't ready for grown man ball. Give them a couple of years in the program and perhaps they are able to compete in the paint.
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Stop being an apologist. Exactly 3 power five teams have had longer waits for an ncaa bid than penn state.
Write a check and hire a proven coach. No more excuses.
Good point about the B1G being fluid...after Purdue it's a hot mess of good to solid teams...and that's it.
Or, for a change, rather than needing a 2-3 window for recruits to "pan" out and get stronger, how about being ready to play and developed early. Essegian for Wisky is a freshman, and is excellent. Hepburn is only a Sophomore but is averaging 13 ppg, and as a freshman last year, averaged 8 ppg. You see this all over CBB. Meanwhile, Njie, who I believe is PSU's highest ever rated bball recruit, at times looks like he has never played the sport. Essegian right now would start and never leave the court for Dread, Wynter, etc. This arbitrary timetable people give PSU basketball is why fans get irate. In today's sports world, you need guys to contribute almost immediately....just the way it is.
THANK YOU! GOOD GOD it has been a non stop train of head coaching apologists in this fan base since freaking 1983. 40 God damn years of pathetic athletic directors, family hires, excuses, more excuses, and general hopelessness.
Gunsie - some people live in reality. We’re not spending $8 million a year to hire someone like Shaka from Marquette, as much as you want to yell at the clouds about it.
Njie definitely isn’t our highest rated recruit.
From the PSU website...I had it very close: "ESPN Top 100 recruit, Penn State’s first ESPN Top 100 commitment since Tony Carr in 2016…No. 2 highest-ranked signee in the history of Penn State basketball"
I'm not Gunsie jack-off.
And nobody is yelling at the clouds except you, making excuses as usual.
I've got Tim Curley on line 1: He says Shrewsbury is "turning the corner" 😆 🤣 😂
I totally agree. Kids are so much more trained these days, especially with their travel teams, so that they should be ready to contribute as freshmen both physically and mentally, especially in a sport like basketball that basically is an outside shooting contest these days.
It would be one thing if you knew that there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow while waiting for frosh and sophomores to develop and take PSU to the tournament a couple of times every 4 or 5 years, but we've seen that that never happens. God, I believe that PSU has made the tournament twice since beginning Big 10 play 30 years ago. That's absurd. And when they make it, it never seems like they can build on that success.
And, again, its not like we are demanding championship or bust...title or we suck, fire everybody. How about just make the damn tourney 1 every 2 or 3 years, MAX. It isn't that hard for a program of our size, resources, national scope, etc. All u have to do is be MIDDLE OF THE PACK in the B1G most years..thats it. Yet, the apologists and excuse makers somehow correlate criticism as people expect titles....not in the slightest. I just want to see us have the ability to play for one!
Erial Lion took over the Apologist CEO job from Uncle Larry Fall and he has been running with it ever since. Their Top anthem and mantra is so predictable: "Who wants to come here" bla bla bla.
I'll tell you who wants to come here: A proven winner who wants to get PAID. Write the God damn check.
Obviously if we had a big man ready to immediately contribute then I would take that. But you have to recruit that and when have we ever been able to recruit that? We aren't Kentucky or even Michigan/Ohio St. Njie is listed as a recruit at 6'8" 205. That is thin as a rail. Booth is 6'9" 190. That is even thinner and is ranked higher than Njie as a recruit. Neither are going to effective banging down low with grown men as freshman.
Also, in addition to Booth, Tony Carr and Lamar Stevens were ranked higher than Njie as a recruit. But seriously, are we writing him off because he's not ready as a freshman in the paint? He could turn out to be a good player for us as he matures and as we get a few other bigs to help out in the paint.
PSU recruiting class ranks past 10 years:
2023: 31st
2022: 40th
2021: 163rd
2020: 83rd
2019: 85th
2018: 57th
2017: 122nd
2016: 26th
2015: 41st
2014: 101st
Be patient. It's clear that we have no history of recruiting day 1 ready bigs or really even halfway decent classes. Shrews has to build this from scratch. 40th class in a year of upheaval and then 31st class this year aren't a bad start. But those players are freshmen and HS seniors. Why hire a coach if you want them gone before they get a chance with their guys?
As I mentioned earlier, who wanted to go to Miami after Frank Haith's unceremonius exit after 8 yrs -- and one tournament appearance. Yes, the locale is beautiful, but prior to Jim's arrival, you could make a case basketball was third on the totem pole behind football and baseball. That has changed. Jim L is one of the best coaches of all time...period. A tremendous teacher of the game, extremely smart. His Miami teams have accomplished more than any time in their program history...many wins over Duke, UNC, tournament appearances, ACC title, etc. I'm sure there are many other examples of the "who of substance would want to come here" game. It's just the default psu people use out of laziness.
Any team worth its salt this season should've beaten very mediocre to below average MSU and Wisconsin teams at home, and won more than one true road game all season. That wasn't much to ask for this season, and it still didn't happen. Rather, this team probably is going to finish in the bottom three of this conference along with Nebraska and Minnesota.
Not that it makes it much better but it’s 3 times (and would have been 4 without COVID).
I buy your overarching premise, but Shrews built this year's team of starters and depth pieces through the portal -- hence enabling some of the younger guys to hopefully come around at some point this season. Yet, those vets have been wildly inconsistent, and for the most part, disappointing. This isn't the old days (sans portal), where you had no outside help and could get older and experienced in one offseason like you can now.
Gunsie - if living in reality is being an apologist, then I’m an apologist…”write the god damn check”? How big of a check are we writing? Are you just writing the check to pay for a coach, or are we also upgrading the budget for assistants, resources, etc? Are our fans going to start caring about basketball and supporting NIL initiatives? And what level of coach are we getting with this check? Like, are we living in a world where our check is pulling Few from Gonzaga? Or is this check grabbing Ed Cooley?
The reality to me is that these last two years have gone much better than I initially expected when Micah took over.
I never understood this either. It has to start somewhere. Maybe the current head coach eventually will turn this program around. Who knows, but this season has been a big step backward for the direction of the program under his leadership.
I don't know anything about basketball recruiting. However, the results speak for themselves. The talent that is being brought in just is not good enough to do well in this conference even when the conference as a whole just isn't that good like this season, save for the rare season like 2020, which happens about as often as Haley's Comet appears.
Again, not ginsie. But just look at you go! Paragraph after paragraph of excuses and apologies.
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