MBB vs Wisconsin @ 8:30
- Thread starter bdgan
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Basketball recruiting is certainly harder to follow than CFB, which is everywhere 24/7. But, let's not make it out to be that every tournament team recruits at some amazing level. I keep going back to Miami (as I used to live there and follow the program)...when the Canes destroyed Duke the other night, the two leading scorers for Miami were transfers from George Mason and Arkansas State! Similar to PSU, Jim lost a couple of dudes from their great team last year and has to count on transfers -- as Miami doesn't exactly recruit at a Tobacco Road level. But, it's about being a competent, smart and savvy HC. Jim doesn't get 'outcoached' most nights. All these excuses in this thread and others are just window dressing.
And yet many of Miami's fans were ready to move on from him after 2021 with three straight losing seasons...glad they stuck with him.
And after his second season at Providence, he had a resume of 7 seasons as a head coach with zero NCAA appearances. Providence would have been better off dumping him for a PROVEN HEAD COACH, right Miles?
Seemingly happens every year where we look back on a season that could have been. We seem to be always sitting in this place of 3 -4 wins shy of making the Dance and there are/were at least 5 games we should have won that we didn't. This year, Clemson or Va Tech, Sparty, Wisky twice, Nebby were all winnable. We get two of those six (not a tall task) and we have a really good shot to dance. But the reality is we never are able to secure the necessary wins and manage to lose games we can and should win. Shrews has to be able to transform the culture to know how to win and expect to win these tight games. The last 4 minutes of tight games need to be winning time for us and too often they are losing time.
That's b/c fans of all schools have a portion that think like that. Doesn't take away from my point about Jim doing an absolutely tremendous job at a place that had arguably a worse tradition (and set of coaches) than PSU.
I watched a lot of that Miami-Duke game as I enjoy it when Duke gets thrashed..
Pitt also is having a great season now with a bunch of misfits after being picked to finish very low in the ACC; they actually may win the ACC this season. They actually won at Northwestern and have beaten UNC twice and Miami. I don't think that they have any McDonald's AAs on that team.
Good, he's growing and developing. His recruiting profile lists him at 6'8" 205. So he's grown 2 inches and added 32 lbs in the last year or so. That's a good start. Let's see how he develops into the body and continues to add good muscle to his build. He's a freshman and the difference in that recruiting profile and PSU website likely indicates a late bloomer.
Yes, and teams relying so heavily on the portal often don't succeed. There are occasional outliers, but it isn't like the portal delivered a bunch of power 5 starters from other teams. He put a band aid on the issue of guys departing with the coaching change. Being a bubble team with that band aid wasn't the worst thing that could have happened.
Yep, an unimpressive B10 this year and we don't take advantage. Wisky down yet we manage to lose to them at home. Same with Sparty. Nebraska has no business beating us. And for the love of God can we ever win a road game vs a good team, ever? Yeah I guess Illinois so is that it, we can count on one good road win a year?
The core of this team is still Pickett, Lundy, and Dread (simply on age, even though he has been terrible). Shrews filled the gaps with the portal. At the end of the day, I just gave the Miami example as a team that lost really good players, found a couple mid-major starters, and they will likely make another tournament. PSU's problems are not only isolated or special to them -- I think many believe that. Other programs have much greater and consistent success with similar issues: basketball being an afterthought, not a natural fanbase, etc. No more excuses. Simply finishing 7th or 8th every yr gets us in the tournament...just find someone to finish middle of the pack in this league -- if it is that difficult of a task, then shut down the program.
We’ve had a lot of guys that were ready to contribute as freshmen, just not this group.
If we can get a head coach currently elsewhere that Kraft believes in and is behind 100%...and we don't make the tourney this year, yes.
PSU bball staff needs to prioritize a true #5 from the portal (who rebounds/defends) or else Damian Lilley (big redshirt project) will have to take huge leap forward next season as will K. Njie. The primary problem is the #4 and #5 positions.
How long are we giving the next coach to make the tourney? 2 years also? Or should we be more aggressive and can him if he can't dance in the first season?
We sure as hell ain't giving him 8 years like the others you also tirelessly apologized for.
Gunsie - I was asking the other poster. I already know that your solution is to hire Bill Self away from Kansas and pony up the NIL $ for a PSU Fab 5...your next realistic suggestion will be your first.
And again, call me an apologist if I think the most sensible option today is to let Shrews do his thing and see where this lands, rather than firing him after year 2 because he couldn't make the NCAA. Firing a coach after not dancing his first two years would mean that many of those "PROVEN WINNERS" you bark about would have never become what they are today.
What happened here?
ELITE High School Scouting
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@NGSaintsHoops
90-79. ‘23 Carson Howard (ESU) added a double-double with key offense by ‘25s Mike Green, Deuce Maxey 4
Ari Rosenfeld and 9 others
There is no right answer...it's all arbitrary. Your number of yrs is different than mine, and others. Even what Kraft would deem as a "homerun" hire, might be not what the majority on here would think. Obviously, Shrews won't get fired, nor should he. But, that wasn't the point. If Kraft let's say gets the money together and plucks a big name, proven HC from somewhere: Painter, Beilein, etc., absolutely u do it. How long do you give that person, no clue. all of this is just conjecture and message board stuff to discuss...but the idea that Shrews or anyone should have the lifespan of typical PSU basketball coaches without a tourny appearance, or even one, should not be in the cards anymore.
Shrews needs another year at least even if we miss the tourney this year. Gets some of his guys in and establishes his system. Gets dicier if he misses the tourney next year then you need to look at recruiting, is there improvement, specific development progress of younger guys, etc. My hunch says he gets 4 years and has to make the tourney at least once or he gone after year 4.
And Kraft should not be wasting his time now trying to secure some kind of "big name" coach. You can't have that itchy of a trigger finger.
He should be figuring out the best NIL strategy along with Franklin that secures us a 5 star QB for the '24 class to succeed Allar in '25.
That's pretty short-sighted IMO. So you want to fire a guy who is losing most of his starting lineup in year 2 if he doesn't do something PSU hasn't done in forever?
His improved recruiting classes will be true freshmen and sophomores. You want to uproot the top 2 classes we've had in awhile because they aren't tournament ready as youngsters?
Well considering that this is the oldest team in the country and this was the year where progress to the tournament was supposed to have been made after his nice debut last season… so next year and even maybe the one after that this is going to be a very young basketball team so now the clock is at year 4…. how long do we have to keep going on this freaking merry go round?
This year was the oldest band aid in the country. There were tons of holes from how the previous coach had left and we hodge podged a half decent team together out of the portal. And because of that you want to dump the coach who has put together the best 2 consecutive recruiting classes (true freshmen and HS seniors right now) that PSU has had in awhile?
Just blow it up again after the band aid from blowing it up a couple years ago came up just short of your measure? Don't even wait until these true freshmen and HS seniors that are our highest rated in some time are upperclassmen? Sounds like a recipe for spiraling worse. Blow it up every 2 to 3 years and never even attempt to build anything.
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I never said to fire him and blow it up. Only if Kraft truly has a name in mind and a vision for the program. All I'm saying is, the idea that PSU's problems of size, transfer portal, etc., are only exclusive to them, is beyond asinine. Finishing in the middle of the pack, or dare I say upper middle, SHOULD NOT be some herculean task. Chris Collins in his 3rd and 4th years at NW won 20 and 24 games, and the latter was a tournament appearance finishing in the Round of 32. Let's see what years 3 and 4 look like for Shrews. What Collins has done at NW, a program with a far WORSE history and tradition than PSU, and hardly a pulse of nba players in its history, has been very impressive. Pikiell at Rutgers in years 4, 5, 6 had tournament teams that finished no worse than 6th in the B1G. So, with these two examples of also terrible programs, lets give Shrews 4 years. If no tournament, time to move on.
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Sounds like 4 to 6 years is the sweet spot to get a decent evaluation
4 YRS...not six. The timetable can't be what it has been at PSU...the leash must be shorter than the usual 7-8.
6 gives you more than 1 data point where it's his guys leading the team. 6 is appropriate for a thorough evaluation.
In the old days, yes, of recruiting HS kids. This is the portal days, for all sports. The portal now acts as (for the most part), physically ready guys who have either some or a lot of experience, while the actual HS recruited players, slowly come around. You and I will never agree on the timeline of needed success, urgency, etc. Knowing what I've seen from Kraft, from his demeanor, energy and passion, I would be STUNNED if Shrews was here 6 yrs, sans a tournament appearance. Six years is what you really need to evaluate Shrews or anyone? Kieger needs six freaking years as WBB to really have a fair depiction of her coaching ability? Not even close...I give it one more year after this, and then move on. I literally gave u two examples of NW and RU, both pedestrian programs, having success in years 3 and 4 under their HCs....Yesterday I mentioned Larranaga at Miami, an afterthought hoops program before he got there. The job can be done at non-blue blood hoops programs in far less time than six years.
Two seasons in sports is an eternity...but we agree to disagree. Again please don't make it out like my expectations are unrealistic -- I'm not saying it has to be B1G title or bust...but 4 years (in today's climate with the portal and quick fix opportunities) to literally finish middle of the pack and make a tournament or (2), is not and should not be some mountainous hurdle.
The whole "it shouldn't be hard to finish middle of the pack" ignores the fact that we're playing in a league with a lot of schools that take basketball very seriously and have lots of tradition, while we're well behind. It's like a Rutgers football fan saying "it shouldn't be that hard to finish middle of the pack in our division at least 50% of the time".
I say it again and again, but fan support is killing us right now. We go into Nebraska on Sunday and play again a team having another bad season, and are facing a packed house with a juiced crowd. We're right in the thick of the bubble, and we come home to a mostly-empty morgue. A better crowd and we may have well gotten another call or two and pulled it out. 12 of our 13 peers care a lot about basketball and will be able to sell recruits on a great home environment, while Micah has to bring his players to football games to try and impress them on the PSU environment.
If anything, right now the Northwestern example is one that shows what a little patience can do...Collins is coming off of 5 straight years with losing records. 6-12, 4-16, 3-17, 6-13, 7-13 in the B1G the last 5 years. How many would be fine with our coach putting up 5 straight seasons like that and still coming back for year 6? If Micah makes one dance in his first 9 seasons, will you consider that a success? I won't.
