I'd like to know how he did it? You gotta chase that dude all over the mat for 7 minutes.
Noteworthy Results & Goldfish Games: Week of 1/6 - 1/9
- Thread starter slushhead
- Start date
post #172 in this thread...
Fix to 125
Yesterday it was Raccoons...... And an elephant. Does the space bar somehow take your humor to the next level? Even for a lurker like me, that is weak.
iowa.forums.rivals.com
Thanks!post #172 in this thread...
Fix to 125
Yesterday it was Raccoons...... And an elephant. Does the space bar somehow take your humor to the next level? Even for a lurker like me, that is weak.
As an aside, WTH is the
GO I🦝WA AWESOME
thing all about???
GO I🦝WA AWESOME
thing all about???
Hmmm. And I thought Iowa was going to sit on this news.
Yeah... they should have put more thought into the decision in renaming that site. Lol
Ludicrous straw man response. At least your utter lack of intellect remains consistent.
I bowed out of the conversation. It is literally like trying to converse with zombies. In HRland Spencer is undeafeted because he was sick, he was "caught", he wrestled unattached and didn't get a challenge, and he lost as a true freshman with no redshirt. But Nolf really lost to Hidlay in Pittsburgh. Taylor wasn't "caught" by Bubba, he was soundly beaten. And Zain's losses as a true freshman count because he didn't win the title that year.
Oh, and the GOAT almost got "caught" again today.
Thank you. Spencer is undoubtedly great but when you lay out their careers I really believe Nolf’s stands up favorably. Obviously a 4th title is huge but so are his losses to inferior competition in way fewer matches. I could care less that his knees are bad. If you take the mat you are obviously healthy enough to wrestle. It shouldn’t figure in to the debate in my eyes
It’s why I tried to use their records, who they actually lost to, and their bonus and win percentage. Things that are actual facts as opposed to the sick, caught, and Nolfs “loss” to Hidlay. Still didn’t matter of course because they won’t listen to anyone who says that their god Spencer isn’t the GOAT
a slight scare so to speak
Nothing deficient in his intellect from where I sit. Dude has that and a sense of humor. Fine by me.
In the meantime . . .
Nolf is undoubtedly great and the argument isn't bad overall, but this is silly. what spencer has been able to do despite almost never being healthy is remarkable and has to factor into the discussion at least a little bit. think of all the time away from training he had to take to just rehab his knees. he's barely gotten to train at a high level in 3 years. also something to be said about getting it done when it truly matters. nobody understands this better than the psu program. i'm pretty sure nolf would trade a couple extra losses for a 4th title.
people take posting too seriously. it's supposed to be fun folks! this isn't war lolNothing deficient in his intellect from where I sit. Dude has that and a sense of humor. Fine by me.
In the meantime . . .
Jason Nolf was never coming back from down 2-0 at the end of the first 🦝🦝🦝
You saw Nolf his junior year, right? (The torn knee.). Carter with a broken hand last year. Etc.
Spencer has had more than his fair share of injuries. But he’s far from the only wrestler to have won NCAA titles wrestling with injuries.
I just hate the argument that his injuries and him still winning is a plus in the goat argument. Actually being injury prone like he is is a huge negative in the argument. Wrestling so many fewer matches absolutely matters in the debate especially when he has losses to good but not great guys.
Can someone that twice couldn’t win his conference tournament be the best ever?
neither of those injuries is in the stratosphere of double torn acl's. especially given he had no time to rehab the second one.
i don't think it should factor in heavily. but i also don't think you can move a 3xer Nolf ahead of him either. i guess it depends on how you want to look at it. who was truly the "best" or who had a better career. for me, spencer is above Nolf in both of those, but I think Spencer at his peak is significantly better than Nolf. and i prefer to look at it as who was the best wrestler at their peak. who reached the highest heights? I also would put DT significantly above Nolf.
the better debate would be someone like Kyle Snyder. I'd put him above Spencer and way above Nolf even though he had worse losses and the same amount of titles. But gun to your head would you really try to claim Nolf has ever been better than Snyder at any point?
I really try not to get into GOAT debates, as there often seems to be a wrinkle of variation in circumstances to negate apples-to-apples comparisons . . .
Lee is one of the most dominant guys of all time — when he wins, it is usually fast and without question. Nolf was dominant in a similar way, though he weighted his points more strongly toward TDs than to NFs, so he went deeper into matches more often. But 99% of the time either of these guys took the mat, everyone knew it was going to be a W in dominant fashion.
Sure, Lee’s amazing ability to achieve this with his various issues is something to be considered. But he still has what, 4 losses to zero-time finalists? That, for me, keeps him out of the Top 2, maybe even 3, all time . . . If he gets a 4th NC, that will count a lot toward objectively separating him from the rest of the pack of 3x-ers with fewer losses, or comparable but better losses. If he doesn’t get that 4th, then discussing him with Nolf and a bunch of others is fair, IMO.
i think, right or wrong, spencer's post college career will be very important for his legacy. he has the college accolades, but so much of his career has been a "what if?" due to injuries and top talent fleeing the weight. if he competes in freestyle this year, beats Gilman, and is immediately one of the best 57 kg guys in the world, then we will have a better gauge of how good he really is.
of course, no one pays much attention to the season - look at Dake. Does losing by fall count towards anything? Injury factors are similar to 'intentions' vs 'actions'... Also - Suriano is out there lurking in the FS front.
Just watch them wrestle and you can see a clear difference. Nolf is by far the better wrestler and it's not even close. Spencer can be beaten and he has shown that. Nolf on the other hand not so much
He absolutely has no argument to be above Cael. But Dake, who I assume you have at 2, has 3 losses to zero time finalists and was not on the same planet dominance-wise. Dake's 3 wins over DT his senior year puts him over Spencer for me, but that's far from a ridiculous conversation. Next would be Stieber, but everybody forgets his actual true freshman year where he was wrestling attached at CKLV and took 3 losses to Jarod Patterson, Jason Lara, and Frank Perrelli. That year Patterson took 7th, Lara went 0-2, and Perrelli went 1-2. The only reason they don't count on his official record is he got hurt and took a medical redshirt. But those losses were attached. Why should they not count in this discussion? He also has the loss to Chris Dardanes and Zain (who wasn't yet the real Zain).
If Spencer finishes with his fourth, he's firmly at #3 imo. Unless you want to talk about who was truly the "best" in a subjective sense by expanding beyond actual results. Kyle Snyder for example has an argument as the true #1. Cael was great, but he was nowhere near "world champion at 19" great. We know this because he took domestic losses at the senior level during his college career. He also was wrestling 50 lbs under weight.
It's much harder to debate on a message board, but this type of debate is much more fun because it allows guys like DT, Nolf, Burroughs, etc... to jump into the discussion with Cael and co.
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I've seen Nolf lose plenty and there's definitely not a clear eye test difference either. 3rd place finisher James Green beat him soundly his true freshman year for example.
Which position is Nolf better in? I'll give him a slight edge in neutral because I think he's better defensively and has a better tank. But Spencer is far superior on top. He is, imo, the undisputed greatest top wrestler of all time.
Hard to argue against a guy being the GOAT if there’s an excuse for every loss. There were even excuses when he won. Nolf lost, other guys lost. Lee lost, but.
I have Lee above Dake if Lee wins a 4th.
Right or wrong, I have Gable at #2.
forgot about Gable. I almost look at guys that long ago as part of a different discussion. almost a different sport now.
Dake #2 for me. Spencer doesn’t have a win in the same galaxy as Dake’s over DT
i know there are fanatics who make excuses for every spencer loss. i wouldn't put it that way. i would say the injuries add to his wins instead of excusing losses. his 3rd title is one of the greatest performances in the sport's history. his 2020 season dominance while secretly wrestling on a torn acl is remarkable. he's actually undefeated since his first acl re-tear in 2019. i'm not that interested in litigating his alleged lyme disease's impact on his losses to rivera and picc.
It’s fine if it’s just me, but I’ll never get over Dake’s defensive style. He didn’t dominate and break guys like Cael, Gable, Lee, our slew of 3x-ers and DT. And his wins against DT were extraordinary when considering his losses and overall body of work. Guy really seemed to squeak-by a lot. And Spencer looking vulnerable at times is exactly why this conversation is happening. I happen to think his overall dominance has been superior to Dake’s, and so I’ll put Lee ahead of Dake if the former gets a 4th title.
So you have 1 Cael 2 Gable 3 Mike Van Brill, then Dake & Lee fighting it out for 4/5 spots?
Bo Nickal would have beaten Jason soundly that year. And Jason damn sure isn't winning 2/3. Not Snyder's fault there isn't a 220 weight class.
