Noteworthy Results & Goldfish Games: Week of 1/6 - 1/9

[AgSurfer]

Anyone else posting here see the Iowa vs Purdue dual today? It started at only 11 am West coast time so I figured it would be a good chance to check out the Hawks. The Lee vs Ramos match made it worth my time. Ramos scored first with a quick TD and Lee was out pretty quickly. Then Ramos hit Lee with a lateral drop and almost pinned him! Lee escaped again with Ramos leading 8-2. Then Lee cranked it up a notch and scored a TD and rolled Ramos back with his signature tilt. He got a 4 pt NF to tie the score then switched into reverse arm bar and clamped Ramos hard to get the fall.

If you just read the team score summary, it will just say Lee WBF over Ramos. The actual match was pretty exciting. Hopefully the replay will be posted sometime soon.

 

[86PSUPaul]

neither of those injuries is in the stratosphere of double torn acl's. especially given he had no time to rehab the second one.

i don't think it should factor in heavily. but i also don't think you can move a 3xer Nolf ahead of him either. i guess it depends on how you want to look at it. who was truly the "best" or who had a better career. for me, spencer is above Nolf in both of those, but I think Spencer at his peak is significantly better than Nolf. and i prefer to look at it as who was the best wrestler at their peak. who reached the highest heights? I also would put DT significantly above Nolf.

the better debate would be someone like Kyle Snyder. I'd put him above Spencer and way above Nolf even though he had worse losses and the same amount of titles. But gun to your head would you really try to claim Nolf has ever been better than Snyder at any point?

Yes!

 

[js8793]

So you have 1 Cael 2 Gable 3 Mike Van Brill, then Dake & Lee fighting it out for 4/5 spots?

What the hell did Mike Van Brill do to get in this conversation? Now, John Van Brill on the other hand...

 

[zzs006]

neither of those injuries is in the stratosphere of double torn acl's. especially given he had no time to rehab the second one.

i don't think it should factor in heavily. but i also don't think you can move a 3xer Nolf ahead of him either. i guess it depends on how you want to look at it. who was truly the "best" or who had a better career. for me, spencer is above Nolf in both of those, but I think Spencer at his peak is significantly better than Nolf. and i prefer to look at it as who was the best wrestler at their peak. who reached the highest heights? I also would put DT significantly above Nolf.

the better debate would be someone like Kyle Snyder. I'd put him above Spencer and way above Nolf even though he had worse losses and the same amount of titles. But gun to your head would you really try to claim Nolf has ever been better than Snyder at any point?

I college I absolutely put Nolf ahead of Snyder. If we include his international results especially winning a world title at 20 then yes he moves ahead but this discussion is about college careers and in that Nolf definitely has Snyder beat. Snyder lost his senior year. Gable would be in conversation if he wrestled this year. And Spencer is obviously better on top but Nolf is absolutely better in neutral I think. Snyder also has the worst loss of all of these guys. Losing to Nathan Burak isn’t a great loss

 

[js8793]

any claim that nolf is in the same stratosphere as kyle snyder as a wrestler is insane homerism. the dude was beating all time greats on the world stage and then coming home, without training folkstyle, and beating elite guys 50 lbs heavier. it's not close.

and trust me, i get it because there's a delusional part of me that thinks spencer is better too haha

 

[slushhead]

What the hell did Mike Van Brill do to get in this conversation? Now, John Van Brill on the other hand...

Mike Van Brill also goes by “Elite Van Brill”. He qualified for 4 consecutive Big Ten Championship tournaments.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

So what’s the deal with Lee headbutting both his dad and a steel pole after running off the mat?

 

[zzs006]

any claim that nolf is in the same stratosphere as kyle snyder as a wrestler is insane homerism. the dude was beating all time greats on the world stage and then coming home, without training folkstyle, and beating elite guys 50 lbs heavier. it's not close.

and trust me, i get it because there's a delusional part of me that thinks spencer is better too haha

But you are not separating their college careers from their international careers. Taking them together Snyder wins hands down. No question. But I’m college he was 75-5 with 2 losses to Gadson, 1 to Macintosh, 1 to Burak, and 1 to Coon. Plus his dominance numbers aren’t close to these other guys. Just talking his career in college at Ohio State it doesn’t stand up to Nolf, Lee, Nickal, Dake, DT let alone Cael

 

[Psugo823]

1. Villalonga
2. Beckman
3. Lewan
4. T. Nelson

End of discussion.

 

[creamery freak]

If we're allowed to make excuses, I want to throw Ed Ruth's name into the mix. An injury during the NCAA tourney his freshman year kept him from being a 4 timer. That's the truth about Ruth. Ed was pretty dominant.

 

[RealMicah]

Y’all be wasting your time arguing #1 when Richie Lewis beats all their asses anyway

 

[El-Jefe]

Bo Nickal would have beaten Jason soundly that year. And Jason damn sure isn't winning 2/3. Not Snyder's fault there isn't a 220 weight class.

Actually, it kinda is. Snyder chose to go HWT to prioritize his freestyle career. I would've made the same decision if I were him. And the folkstyle weight differential was a consequence of that decision.

 

[zzs006]

If we're allowed to make excuses, I want to throw Ed Ruth's name into the mix. An injury during the NCAA tourney his freshman year kept him from being a 4 timer. That's the truth about Ruth. Ed was pretty dominant.

Really we could argue for Ruth, DT, Nickal, or Nolf. All have good arguments but Nolf just happens to my favorite. Zain would in the debate as well especially with his dominance but 5th as a freshman kind of takes him out of it for me. Sucks because if we are going from their absolute peak I’m not sure if anyone’s is higher than Zains besides Cael. Maybe DT and maybe Spencer

 

[creamery freak]

Really we could argue for Ruth, DT, Nickal, or Nolf. All have good arguments but Nolf just happens to my favorite. Zain would in the debate as well especially with his dominance but 5th as a freshman kind of takes him out of it for me. Sucks because if we are going from their absolute peak I’m not sure if anyone’s is higher than Zains besides Cael. Maybe DT and maybe Spencer

Just the fact we can have an argument about which PSU wrestler is our GOAT speaks volumes how fortunate we are as PSU wrestling fans.

 

[zzs006]

Back to results from today.
Casey Swiderski losses to Jesse Vasquez
Dustin Plott loses to Aaron Olmos 9-4

 

[Chickenman Testa]

1. Villalonga
2. Beckman
3. Lewan
4. T. Nelson

End of discussion.

Marshall Peppleman’s gotta be an honorable mention. Dude could knee wrestle better than anyone

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Bo was a 3xer Bonus machine 4x finalist. He lost his 1st try on a throw where he tossed Miles to his back. The move would have been 4 points if not 6, heck maybe even a pin.

Miles to his credit rolled through and got 6 points off of Bo's offensive move. That's a 10+ point differential. Bo was almost able to overcome the mistake but ultimately couldn't. Take that sequence away and Bo wins going away and is a 4xer.

I know of no other wrestler who came as close to being a 4xer.

Iowa better hope Spencer runs through this weak field, because if he doesn't his stats pretty much prove he will be behind all of these guys we are talking about plus Bo, Zain and Ed.

Is Spencer already the 125 GOAT? I think so. Is he one of the greatest P4P of all time? It's too bad he has as many losses as he does, and went up against such a weak field in multiple years. Had he faced Suriano last year, and Rivera earlier at nationals and beat both, I might be convinced otherwise. He didn't, and I am not.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Back to results from today.
Casey Swiderski losses to Jesse Vasquez
Dustin Plott loses to Aaron Olmos 9-4

Plott loss is good. Don’t want to see Mekhi a 4/5 seed

 

[Rocky_Smith]

Anyone else posting here see the Iowa vs Purdue dual today? It started at only 11 am West coast time so I figured it would be a good chance to check out the Hawks. The Lee vs Ramos match made it worth my time. Ramos scored first with a quick TD and Lee was out pretty quickly. Then Ramos hit Lee with a lateral drop and almost pinned him! Lee escaped again with Ramos leading 8-2. Then Lee cranked it up a notch and scored a TD and rolled Ramos back with his signature tilt. He got a 4 pt NF to tie the score then switched into reverse arm bar and clamped Ramos hard to get the fall.

If you just read the team score summary, it will just say Lee WBF over Ramos. The actual match was pretty exciting. Hopefully the replay will be posted sometime soon.

Lee must have unreal strength. He hits that one-on-one arm bar tilt on everyone. Clearly his opponents know it’s coming, but it seems impossible to stop.

 

[McScoreley]

I would love for Plott to be Carter's semis draw. I think Plott got the better of him when they last wrestled (years ago) but you know Carter doesn't forget something like that.

 

[js8793]

Actually, it kinda is. Snyder chose to go HWT to prioritize his freestyle career. I would've made the same decision if I were him. And the folkstyle weight differential was a consequence of that decision.

That’s not true. He couldn’t make 197 anymore. He was a true tweener

 

[El-Jefe]

That’s not true. He couldn’t make 197 anymore. He was a true tweener

Because he was lifting to go 213 freestyle.

 

[Psugo823]

Marshall Peppleman’s gotta be an honorable mention. Dude could knee wrestle better than anyone

Of particular true greatness was his amazing piaa stellar career consisting of 1-0 and 2-1 victories. He made Dean Heil look like Wade Schalles in comparison....

 

[Psugo823]

Lee must have unreal strength. He hits that one-on-one arm bar tilt on everyone. Clearly his opponents know it’s coming, but it seems impossible to stop.

He won't turn Glory with it...but everyone else? Yep.

 

[js8793]

But you are not separating their college careers from their international careers. Taking them together Snyder wins hands down. No question. But I’m college he was 75-5 with 2 losses to Gadson, 1 to Macintosh, 1 to Burak, and 1 to Coon. Plus his dominance numbers aren’t close to these other guys. Just talking his career in college at Ohio State it doesn’t stand up to Nolf, Lee, Nickal, Dake, DT let alone Cael

correct, but if we’re just going off pure, decontextualized collegiate results, the conversation is boring and more importantly inaccurate. as a pure wrestler Nolf is nowhere near Snyder. He had a better ncaa career, but he’s not higher on my GOAT list

 

[okinburg1]

correct, but if we’re just going off pure, decontextualized collegiate results, the conversation is boring and more importantly inaccurate. as a pure wrestler Nolf is nowhere near Snyder. He had a better ncaa career, but he’s not higher on my GOAT list

🐺🐺

 

[Roar More]

Carlton Haselrig just stopped by to say, "hi."

 

[HawkFan1986]

He won't turn Glory with it...but everyone else? Yep.

He’s turned him in both of their previous matches and is stronger now. I’m confused by your comments?

 

[Psugo823]

He’s turned him in both of their previous matches and is stronger now. I’m confused by your comments?

Glory is bigger now. Anyways we will find out in March. If he turns him, awesome, you lose by 20 points instead of 23.

 

[HawkFan1986]

Glory is bigger now. Anyways we will find out in March. If he turns him, awesome, you lose by 20 points instead of 23.

So is Spencer. And good burn.

 

[zzs006]

correct, but if we’re just going off pure, decontextualized collegiate results, the conversation is boring and more importantly inaccurate. as a pure wrestler Nolf is nowhere near Snyder. He had a better ncaa career, but he’s not higher on my GOAT list

Fair enough. Spencer takes a huge hit then because he hasn’t stepped on the mat for freestyle in a long time. In your argument for the goat Spencer shouldn’t be near the top then

 

[a_mshaffer]

of course, no one pays much attention to the season - look at Dake. Does losing by fall count towards anything? Injury factors are similar to 'intentions' vs 'actions'... Also - Suriano is out there lurking in the FS front.

and then we have to enter the discussion regarding those that were not allowed to wrestle for a title as a frosh

 

[NittanyLion84]

So you have 1 Cael 2 Gable 3 Mike Van Brill, then Dake & Lee fighting it out for 4/5 spots?

We certainly can’t forget a slot, for the always improving Myles Martin.

 

[Chris92]

Have we seen a reverse angle of the Ramos throw? The ref sure was slow getting down there looking for the fall.

 

[js8793]

Because he was lifting to go 213 freestyle.

no because he was already a full sized 213 who made a hellacious cut to 197. he didn't have to grow into that weight at all. he wrestled higher as a high school freshman. and he was a big 215 too.

 

[jack66]

The GOAT shouldn't need to be graded on a curve.

 

[js8793]

Have we seen a reverse angle of the Ramos throw? The ref sure was slow getting down there looking for the fall.

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what reverse angle do you need? you can see his shoulders the entire time. not close to being pinned. sick throw though. even cooler that it was set up by his first takedown too. he was well prepared.

first takedown he hits a little shuck when lee peels his russian tie. on the throw, he hits the same thing, lee is ready and counters with the underhook, and he immediately steps in and launches him. became a ramos fan today.

 

[js8793]

The GOAT shouldn't need to be graded on a curve.

nobody except delusional iowa homers are calling him the GOAT. it's a straw man.

 

[Chris92]

what reverse angle do you need? you can see his shoulders the entire time. not close to being pinned. sick throw though. even cooler that it was set up by his first takedown too. he was well prepared.

I would rather see a reverse angle than look at screenshots(hate screenshots). I don't see both shoulder blades here, so who knows.

 

[js8793]

I would rather see a reverse angle than look at screenshots(hate screenshots). I don't see both shoulder blades here, so who knows.

it's not close. come on man