Wrestling Officially Official 2022 Big Ten Tournament Thread

[johnstownsteel]

I love reading threads on HR that state they should do things like Cael does!
Next thing we will hear coming out of Iowa City is the planned addition of a dodge ball court inside the new wrestling complex.

Rumor has it that’s why they went over budget. That’s all nothing but speculation tho… lol

 

[donboy6499]

I’m fine with that. Someone saying they’re tough doesn’t affect the outcome at Nationals. Worsening an injury at a conference tourney to the point a wrestler can no longer compete or is hindered further does affect the outcome at Nationals. I choose what’s best for Nationals as the Iowa coaching staff did as well.

Again, if they all show to be injured, underperform seeds (again, Shak went 2-2 as the 2 seed), I will be the first one here saying they clearly were hurt and shouldn't have been wrestling.

If they show out and the guys who sat out go like 2 champs, 2 2nds, or wrestle to seeds, pretty clear there was something fishy.

And if the answer is, "Guys can get healthy in 10 days", then the injury wasn't bad enough to have to sit out.

 

[johnstownsteel]

That's typical tHR BS.

Its how they train not their schedule that contributes to all these athletes breaking down.

Also you are 100 percent correct most years but I’d be willing to bet Brands did some things differently this year. Setting Lee in some matches early, Desanto some, Eireman some, Murin some and Kem… I think he backed off on the training a bit this year. My opinion he saw what could happen but unfortunately it may not have been enough to get them through.

 

[palmettolion]

His semifinal interview was funny. Did you see him rolling his eyes when he talked about being surrounded by good teammates and coaches? It was like somebody had a gun to the back of his head and was telling him what to say.

I don't think he was rolling his eyes as much as trying really hard to find the right thing to say. Dude comes across as extremely socially awkward to me. I genuinely don't think he knows how to interact with other people.

 

[ss7]

Again, if they all show to be injured, underperform seeds (again, Shak went 2-2 as the 2 seed), I will be the first one here saying they clearly were hurt and shouldn't have been wrestling.

If they show out and the guys who sat out go like 2 champs, 2 2nds, or wrestle to seeds, pretty clear there was something fishy.

And if the answer is, "Guys can get healthy in 10 days", then the injury wasn't bad enough to have to sit out.

The suggestion that we as fans, with no real information, get to judge just how legitimate a wrestlers injuries are is absolutely absurd.

Shak sat in the finals, Iowa fans thought it was the end of the world. Now their guys sit in the finals and the roles are reversed. The fans' reaction means nothing because it's based on nothing other than who is doing the sitting.

 

[nitlion6]

The suggestion that we as fans, with no real information, get to judge just how legitimate a wrestlers injuries are is absolutely absurd.

Shak sat in the finals, Iowa fans thought it was the end of the world. Now their guys sit in the finals and the roles are reversed. The fans' reaction means nothing because it's based on nothing other than who is doing the sitting.

It is the exact same with the "byes" if it had been Iowa and Michigan with the most first round byes and 2 team points for each bye, and we had finished second by 1.5 points this board would be in the middle of a meltdown over the unfairness of those unearned bonus points.

 

[donboy6499]

The suggestion that we as fans, with no real information, get to judge just how legitimate a wrestlers injuries are is absolutely absurd.

Shak sat in the finals, Iowa fans thought it was the end of the world. Now their guys sit in the finals and the roles are reversed. The fans' reaction means nothing because it's based on nothing other than who is doing the sitting.

Disagree.

Again, this is a path we go down to having one tournament a year that anyone cares to win, and that is why it's bad.

If we have 4 truly injured wrestlers that couldn't wrestle, it is certainly understandable, and it is also one of the great mathematical oddities anyone in this thread will ever see.

 

[donboy6499]

It is the exact same with the "byes" if it had been Iowa and Michigan with the most first round byes and 2 team points for each bye, and we had by 1.5 points this board would be in the middle of a meltdown over the unfairness of those unearned bonus points.

I don't understand this take.

Iowa sitting guys virtually guaranteed that they wouldn't win. Still, people wanted to see those guys, if at all possible, wrestle as everyone else did. I would rather Riddler wrestle and beat Nick than not wrestle at all. Same with Kem/Star.

The sitting is bad because it's bad for the sport. Now when they do not receive anything more than a lower seed by one or two (if at all), we will almost certainly see more in the future.

 

[raslen007]

Heavy dream seeding

1. Gable
2. Cass
3. Kirk
4. Shultz the Duck. To prove a point!
5. Paris.
If Kirk falls to 4th of 5th. Hoping Paris is a 6th. I’m also thinking Michigan peaked last night and the point is to peak in not quite 2 weeks

Watched the kid from Air Force last night. He is pretty impressive, moves well for a big dude. Not Stevesen quick but quicker than most. I could see him at 3 or 4.

 

[The Kid Twist]

So how many times do you think the camera will pan over to show his wife cheering him on?

UGH! It is obligatory! I hate it. What is wrong with Marinelli's face besides being an ugly bastard, his eyes are too close together or cross-eyed? Something is wrong there. Damn Covid! I would have loved to have one more Cenzo/Marinelli match at the NC in 2020!!!

I like what Amine said yesterday after beating Brookes. No one remembers who won the Big 10s. They only are about who won the National Championship!! Nice record winning 4 Big 10 titles. Congrats!!! But if you want to be "LEGEND" like DT, Ed Ruth, Zain, Dake, Yanni. Lee, Nolf, Bo Nickal, Gable, Cenzo, Aaron Brookes you gotta win multiple NCs!!!

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I am still a fan of speak softly and carry a big stick.
In the former’s case, he also expressed his feeling about the greater being. I don’t think I heard any of that from these guys ( from Marinelli, yes).

You didn't hear Starocci humble himself to his Creator? You didn't listen to what he said then - he started his comments by saying - all glory to God, he gave me the ability, I'm just using it - or something to that effect. He then made a second similar reference later on. As far as his comments go, he essentially said that God gave him the ability to be the best wrestler on earth and he is going to realize that gift - there is zero wrong with that statement imho. As for his Michigan comments, PSU is better than Michigan as they proved in their Dual and will prove in 9 days. Michigan is not going to have 5 finalists at Nationals (probably 2), while PSU will likely have 5 finalists. Michigan is not going to have 10 AAs at Nationals (i.e., replicate their B1G placing - 2 B1G Champions, 3 Runner-Ups, 2 Third Place, 2 Fourth Place and an Eighth Place) - I don't see Michigan recording more than 5 AAs tops. PSU looks to have significantly more AAs with a far higher average placing from those AAs (PSU could easily record 4 or 5 Individual Champions - which has become somewhat normal for PSU under Cael's reign). In any event, the results at B1Gs say very little about Michigan's ability to replicate those results at Nationals versus PSU's ability to replicate similar placing results at Nationals.

 

[mcpat]

I think some folks focus and care a little too much about what a young athlete hyped up on adrenaline says seconds after a big performance.

(There is an exception for chopping wood and carrying water, however.)

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Just FYI for everyone, the penalty point against Hildebrandt was for an illegal cutback and not a full nelson. As I mentioned in another thread, I have seen that called a few times this year. Since there seems to be an emphasis on calling it this year, PSU wrestlers who do a legal variation of a cutback need to be careful they keep the move legal and don't leave their feet. Here is the applicable section from the Rulebook: No. 44—ILLEGAL CUT BACK. Wrestlers are not allowed to use their leg to execute a cut back, regardless of whether the hand is being used. Nos. 45 and 46—ILLEGAL REAR STANDING DOUBLE KNEE KICKBACK. A wrestler shall not leave their feet to block behind both of their opponent’s knees with one or both of their legs, feet or shin bones. Both photos demonstrate an illegal double knee kickback because the wrestler has left both feet in order to collapse behind the knees of the opponent

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Just FYI for everyone, the penalty point against Hildebrandt was for an illegal cutback and not a full nelson. As I mentioned in another thread, I have seen that called a few times this year. Since there seems to be an emphasis on calling it this year, PSU wrestlers who do a legal variation of a cutback need to be careful they keep the move legal and don't leave their feet. Here is the applicable section from the Rulebook: No. 44—ILLEGAL CUT BACK. Wrestlers are not allowed to use their leg to execute a cut back, regardless of whether the hand is being used. Nos. 45 and 46—ILLEGAL REAR STANDING DOUBLE KNEE KICKBACK. A wrestler shall not leave their feet to block behind both of their opponent’s knees with one or both of their legs, feet or shin bones. Both photos demonstrate an illegal double knee kickback because the wrestler has left both feet in order to collapse behind the knees of the opponent

Still don't understand the wording of this rule - "leave your feet" implies jumping into the air with both feet. We used to call this move a variation of a "back trip". You swivel your hip one direction, or the other, step across standing wrestler with near-leg to hip swivel, go to a knee at same time with far knee.... and pull standing wrestler back directly over extended leg. You don't jump into the air - you step across with near leg to hip swivel. I'm not even sure it is possible to "leave your feet" (again this is plural and implies jumping into air - i.e., no feet on the ground... "leaving your feet") when you're essentially holding your opponent in your locked hands.

 

[dunkej01]

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

View embedded media

Exact same thing he tried in PSU-Iowa Dual. Very difficult to call stalling when a wrestler just keeps diving-in, head-down clinging to a leg and not trying to improve. Burroughs description is perfect - fishing for a stall call, which will make many Refs more reluctant, than more likely, to make a stall call.

 

[mcpat]

Art. 7. Baiting an Opponent. When a wrestler displays actions or behavior that are only an attempt to secure a stalling call, technical violation or other violation on the opponent, this shall be penalized as a technical violation.

 

[dunkej01]

Exact same thing he tried in PSU-Iowa Dual. Very difficult to call stalling when a wrestler just keeps diving-in, head-down clinging to a leg and not trying to improve. Burroughs description is perfect - fishing for a stall call, which will make many Refs more reluctant, than more likely, to make a stall call.

Its the new iowa style. Push, take bad shots and get the crowd into the refs head.

“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
- Dan Gable

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Still don't understand the wording of this rule - "leave your feet" implies jumping into the air with both feet. We used to call this move a variation of a "back trip". You swivel your hip one direction, or the other, step across standing wrestler with near-leg to hip swivel, go to a knee at same time with far knee.... and pull standing wrestler back directly over extended leg. You don't jump into the air - you step across with near leg to hip swivel. I'm not even sure it is possible to "leave your feet" (again this is plural and implies jumping into air - i.e., no feet on the ground... "leaving your feet") when you're essentially holding your opponent in your locked hands.

Here is the link to the Rulebook. Go to physical page 90 of the document where it also shows photos for illustration purposes: NCAA Wrestling Rulebook 2021-2023 The Rulebook also has a search function where you can enter key words to quickly find what you are looking for. Not specifically directed at only you CJFisJoePall, but for all of us here who post on wrestling rules and rule application/interpretation, we should all copy and paste the applicable section(s) from the Rulebook for the benefit of others. I would have posted the photos from the Rulebook in this case, but my technical skills (or lack thereof) failed me

 

[a_mshaffer]

You didn't hear Starocci humble himself to his Creator? You didn't listen to what he said then - he started his comments by saying - all glory to God, he gave me the ability, I'm just using it - or something to that effect. He then made a second similar reference later on. As far as his comments go, he essentially said that God gave him the ability to be the best wrestler on earth and he is going to realize that gift - there is zero wrong with that statement imho. As for his Michigan comments, PSU is better than Michigan as they proved in their Dual and will prove in 9 days. Michigan is not going to have 5 finalists at Nationals (probably 2), while PSU will likely have 5 finalists. Michigan is not going to have 10 AAs at Nationals (i.e., replicate their B1G placing - 2 B1G Champions, 3 Runner-Ups, 2 Third Place, 2 Fourth Place and an Eighth Place) - I don't see Michigan recording more than 5 AAs tops. PSU looks to have significantly more AAs with a far higher average placing from those AAs (PSU could easily record 4 or 5 Individual Champions - which has become somewhat normal for PSU under Cael's reign). In any event, the results at B1Gs say very little about Michigan's ability to replicate those results at Nationals versus PSU's ability to replicate similar placing results at Nationals.

I thought he was referring to UM generically while referencing the big dance

 

[dunkej01]

 

[nitlion6]

I don't understand this take.

Iowa sitting guys virtually guaranteed that they wouldn't win. Still, people wanted to see those guys, if at all possible, wrestle as everyone else did. I would rather Riddler wrestle and beat Nick than not wrestle at all. Same with Kem/Star.

The sitting is bad because it's bad for the sport. Now when they do not receive anything more than a lower seed by one or two (if at all), we will almost certainly see more in the future.

Talking about byes resulting in 2 bonus points like MFF.

 

[nitlion6]

View embedded media

The two cradles have forevermore spooked DeSanto. DeSanto is afraid to turn the corner to finish because he knows he is going to get cradled. If he keeps shooting he knows Angel will call RBY for stalling, plus RBY can not attack DeSanto.

 

[nitlion6]

Its the new iowa style. Push, take bad shots and get the crowd into the refs head.

“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
- Dan Gable

The new Iowa style? Wrestle for the stall call with Iowa fans howling "heeeeeesssss stttttaaaaallllliiiiinnnnnn" has been part of the Iowa offensive attack for decades. A huge difference is under Gable they also offensively attacked trying to score offensive points.
Now, when in a tough match ie Marinelli and Amine it has become push out, push out, push him all the way out and "hesssssss sttttaaalllliiinnng" from fans and Brands.

 

[johnstownsteel]

The two cradles have forevermore spooked DeSanto. DeSanto is afraid to turn the corner to finish because he knows he is going to get cradled. If he keeps shooting he knows Angel will call RBY for stalling, plus RBY can not attack DeSanto.

So what’s the deal with a wrestler screaming? All you have to do is scream to get a stoppage? Soon as the Desanto match Started he cried out for a stoppage and it was given to him. I saw nothing that should have warranted that.

 

[nitlion6]

So what’s the deal with a wrestler screaming? All you have to do is scream to get a stoppage? Soon as the Desanto match Started he cried out for a stoppage and it was given to him. I saw nothing that should have warranted that.

He was going to his back and tapped out with a scream for good measure. The back points should have been awarded, at least two of them.
Change the rule to if you puss out on your way to your back the max number of back points should be awarded, 4 college, 3 HS.

 

[johnstownsteel]

He was going to his back and tapped out with a scream for good measure. The back points should have been awarded, at least two of them.
Change the rule to if you puss out on your way to your back the max number of back points should be awarded, 4 college, 3 HS.

RBY was going to go cradle there after pulling the leg out and Desanto knew it immediately and yelled out for a stoppage. Right then and there I knew RBY and that cradle is all up in Austin’s cranium. Desanto better “catch” RBY or go off his meds for Nationals because I don’t see him ever beating RBY again.

 

[IwasAwful]

More fuel for the fire. Assuming that Lee would have beat Eierman in the final (far from a guarantee I know) the MFF gave PSU probably 2 unearned points.
For Micic the Sea Bass MFF moved him into the 3-4 match. That awarded him a half a point for advancement, 2 points for the MFF, and 4th Place is worth two more points than fifth. So by my math, and I could be wrong, the MFFs at 141 gave Michigan 2.5 more points than PSU and the team score was decided by 1.5 points.
Injuries suck and they rob an awesome tournament and event of some of it’s luster. All that being said Michigan wrestled a perfect tournament. Couldn’t have scripted it better for them. Congrats to them, but I feel really good about Penn States chances in Detroit.

 

[nitlion6]

RBY was going to go cradle there after pulling the leg out and Desanto knew it immediately and yelled out for a stoppage. Right then and there I knew RBY and that cradle is all up in Austin’s cranium. Desanto better “catch” RBY or go off his meds for Nationals because I don’t see him ever beating RBY again.

DeSanto is pretty good and could possibly catch RBY, but it would be a helluva fluke. To get another crack at RBY DeSanto needs to deal with Fix first.
Funny, I catch myself laughing outloud picturing TnT attempting to game plan for both of those animals and getting DeSanto to understand and keep seperate each plan.

 

[The Kid Twist]

I could see Iowa imploding in two weeks. If all those Seniors start losing on the front side one has to wonder how motivated they will be on the backside. They came back for one thing… a national championship. How motivated will they be going for 3rd, 5th or 7th?

I am afraid there will be a shortage of medical tape and ibuprofen when Iowa gets to Detroit1 Most of the team needs to be drugged and mummified just to get to the mat!

 

[johnstownsteel]

I am afraid there will be a shortage of medical tape and ibuprofen when Iowa gets to Detroit1 Most of the team needs to be drugged and mummified just to get to the mat!

I’m not going that far. Lol. I guess Corey Clark doing what he did leaves me apprehensive to say Iowa is out of this thing. Miracles do happen. I’ll say this though, if I had to bet I’d say NCST finishes ahead of Iowa in the team race before I would bet Iowa ahead of PSU.

 

[The Kid Twist]

Coulda put the hat on and not looked so much like an outsider. I cant put my finger on it, but that guy’s got some quirks that turn me off.

Like that psychotic 1000yd stare! I was ready to alert law enforcement to make sure he didn't have a gun! I am a Bergen Catholic grad and that really hurts because Shane Griffiths and Robbie Howard are the exact opposite of this nut job!

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Does anybody know how we fared against Iowa in HTH matches? Need to determine how much Nash owes WFL.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Does anybody know how we fared against Iowa in HTH matches? Need to determine how much Nash owes WFL.

Does mffs count.

 

[donboy6499]

Talking about byes resulting in 2 bonus points like MFF.

Gotcha.
I think we’re talking about two different things here.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Does anybody know how we fared against Iowa in HTH matches? Need to determine how much Nash owes WFL.

Rby beat Desanto
Lee mff over Eierman
Berge beat Young twice
Star Mff over Kem
Marinelli beat Edsell
Cass over Kerk.

 

[royboy]

Didn't realize until seeing this on BTN but Michigan did not have a single wrestler who finished worse than his seed.

Having 10 wrestlers do as well or better than expected is quite an achievement.

But still the Wolverines won the team title by a very narrow margin. On to the national tournament.

 

[nitlion6]

Didn't realize until seeing this on BTN but Michigan did not have a single wrestler who finished worse than his seed.

Having 10 wrestlers do as well or better than expected is quite an achievement.

But still the Wolverines won the team title by a very narrow margin. On to the national tournament.

Michigan collectively wrestled one helluva nice tournament.

 

[donboy6499]

More fuel for the fire. Assuming that Lee would have beat Eierman in the final (far from a guarantee I know) the MFF gave PSU probably 2 unearned points.
For Micic the Sea Bass MFF moved him into the 3-4 match. That awarded him a half a point for advancement, 2 points for the MFF, and 4th Place is worth two more points than fifth. So by my math, and I could be wrong, the MFFs at 141 gave Michigan 2.5 more points than PSU and the team score was decided by 1.5 points.
Injuries suck and they rob an awesome tournament and event of some of it’s luster. All that being said Michigan wrestled a perfect tournament. Couldn’t have scripted it better for them. Congrats to them, but I feel really good about Penn States chances in Detroit.

I feel really good about PSU chances as well.

Michigan collectively wrestled one helluva nice tournament.

They really did. I don’t think one guy on their team had a “bad” tournament.

 

[js8793]

I feel really good about PSU chances as well.

They really did. I don’t think one guy on their team had a “bad” tournament.

i'm somewhat a broken record on this, but i think micic had a bad tournament. he confirmed for me that he is not a threat to score points. went 3-2. wins over 10, 13, and 14 seeds (none ranked in intermat's top 33). all of those wins were close. losses to intermat's 18th (5-0 dominant) and 31st ranked wrestlers.

he'll need another bracket implosion and/or miracle backside path to score more than a point for them.