That would be my guess as well. Dany can't win, she's crazy. John can't win, that would be too obvious. I think John confronts Dany over being a crazy mass murderer, Dany responds by killing John, then Arya kills Dany, and Sansa becomes queen.
That would be my guess as well. Dany can't win, she's crazy. John can't win, that would be too obvious. I think John confronts Dany over being a crazy mass murderer, Dany responds by killing John, then Arya kills Dany, and Sansa becomes queen.
BTW pretty funny story. Since 2011, around 3,500 babies have been named Daenerys or Khaleesi or some variant. What do you do if you've named your girl after a genocidal maniac?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...t-nights-game-thrones/?utm_term=.274fe6dd9f11
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...t-nights-game-thrones/?utm_term=.274fe6dd9f11
Could see this. But it would certainly leave the question of "sooo, why didn't you do that before she murdered a million people?"
I'm guessing Martin is further along than we think. I expect the next book this year. I think he wanted to stop releasing books that advance the GOT story until after the TV was complete so as to avoid any further discussion about how the books are diverging from the show while the show was still going on.
After Sansa sits on the Iron Throne, she peels back her face to reveal Arya
^There was a fake-ish news wave over the last few days that GRRM has already completed the final two books but agreed with HBO to not release them or put them through the editing process yet until the show is completed. I say "fake-ish" because it was from an interview with a former show cast member (I think it was the guy who played the knight who was killed - not Jorah).
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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I don't know if anyone will outright kill Dany; I think if she goes it's on her terms (sort of realizes what she did and what it cost, and since she has no one to share it with she takes flight....). But, Arya seems like a good candidate though I can't imagine her having the two biggest kills of the season.
Dany always wanted the Iron Throne. If she was truly just about "Breaking the Wheel" and restoring the Targaryens to power, she would have ceded power to Jon (who could actually unite the 7 kingdoms because of his Stark ties). All of her other stuff (breaker of chains etc) was really just to further her own end (e.g. yes, she "frees" the Unsullied, but only because she can't afford to buy them without giving up a dragon and her gamble that they will want to fight for their liberator pays off).
Dany was never an altruistic character. Like most characters in GoT she did some good and some bad.
The purpose was revenge/rage. Crucifying the masters in Mereen(?) didn't serve a purpose either (other than to instill fear).
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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They were crucified in retaliation for the slave children crucified by the masters on Dany's march to Mereen.
I think HBO made the mistake of trying to cram these into 6 Sundays instead of the normal 10+. They told us each of the 6 would be like full length movies but that has not been the case at all. most are no longer than 80 min. I believe had they spread it out and allowed a bit more character changes and allowed for appropriate time between situations we may not be hearing so many negatives.
But that didn't happen so I am taking what I get and enjoying as much as possible. Sad to see it go for sure. I do not believe the prequel/sequels will even sniff the success of the original but I definitely will check them out.
As for predictions, I believe the mass carnage is done. But I have a feeling Arya takes out Danny and some combination of the Starks rule the land of men going forward. May be the only death of the finale. Not sure there ever will be a true king/queen of the 7 kingdoms again.
I keep reading about the show having "jumped the shark"
Seriously folks....shark, schmark......this show has jumped the dragon.........
I do not see them killing off BOTH Jon and Danny. One of them, maybe. But not both of the main story line characters. My guess is that Danny dies. The logical choice to do that deed is Arya. As much as Jon was appalled by what he saw her do to the innocent at KL, he is not a cold blooded killer and he loved her just 24 hours ago. Jon killing Danny in cold blood definitely would not fit the 8-year profile they developed for the guy.
* Danny gets killed by Arya using Tyrions face
* Arya retires to be Gendrys Queen
* Jon survives being killed by Danny/Drogon in a way that he shifts the Unsullied & Dothraki to him and Jon is temporarily the unifier King
* Jon does not want the throne, and he retires to be a free folk north of the wall
* Jon hands the throne over to Gendry
* Gendry marries Arya, and with a Stark as his Queen they declare that the North /Winterfell never again has to bend the knee and the North/Winterfell can rule themselves thus making Sansa a queen.
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Bronn is the last episode wild card. No way did he show up at Winterfell, say his peace and walk away never to be seen or heard again. Jamie's dead, Tyrion alive. But I'm going WAY out of limb and saying he will be instrumental in Dany's demise. Possibly even the one to do the deed. I will be stunned, shocked and highly dismayed if the Winterfell scene is the last we hear or see of Bronn in this series.
Funny I agree with pro and con comments throughout. I am not letting it bother me. Deadwood, Lost, Mad Men, Heroes, list goes on, had rushed last seasons.
I think HBO made the mistake of trying to cram these into 6 Sundays instead of the normal 10+. They told us each of the 6 would be like full length movies but that has not been the case at all. most are no longer than 80 min. I believe had they spread it out and allowed a bit more character changes and allowed for appropriate time between situations we may not be hearing so many negatives.
But that didn't happen so I am taking what I get and enjoying as much as possible. Sad to see it go for sure. I do not believe the prequel/sequels will even sniff the success of the original but I definitely will check them out.
As for predictions, I believe the mass carnage is done. But I have a feeling Arya takes out Danny and some combination of the Starks rule the land of men going forward. May be the only death of the finale. Not sure there ever will be a true king/queen of the 7 kingdoms again.
Agree completely about this being HBOs fault in wanting to cram it into 6 episodes and not 10. Not all fault on the writers. ,
I agree that it would seem strange to just write Bronn off the way we last saw him.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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I’ve heard HBO wanted another few seasons. Was turned down.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Of course it did! It’s one thing to get out ahead of the books. It’s another to compress so much material and plot into 3 whirlwind episodes. It’s starting to play out like a choose your own adventure with bizarre twists and dangling plot lines. Fun to watch the episodes but it’s become painful to think this stuff though after all these books and years of watching. I think I’ve finally decided I’m over it. I’ll watch but... meh.
And I look forward to the books. But I’m not as hungry for them. I’m full for now...
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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I'm not 100% postive, but didn't he "see" Drogon flying over King's Landing in one of his visions?
Correct. This is all on those two guys. This was HBO’s cash cow. The two writers wanted to be done with it and ruined a good thing for many many people. They had it made when they had the books and huge success followed. Once they had to put in the work they couldn’t keep up and wanted out.
Odd note but does anybody remember they kept saying they needed to film in winter when they were getting the backlash on the delays? Total BS
My prediction: Bob wakes up and realizes that it was a dream
My takes coming to the party late.
1) This board is strange at times. Some complained that Dany could have just flown behind Euron's fleet as the scorpions were only on the front of the ships. Another complaint is that Dany doesn't learn from her mistakes. So, she attacks from behind, attacks in front by steep dive, and staying low to the water relegating the scorpion ineffective. She also finally realizes all the bad advice she has been getting as Tyrion tries to serve two masters: her and his family. Previous to Westeros, Dany was the conquering hero, but had no history. Her family has history in Westeros, which is not positive, and since she hasn't lived there, is a feared outsider. Of course, they are going to be skeptical. Thus, what option does she have but to rule by fear. She no longer has any advisers she can trust as everyone in Westeros has divided loyalties.
2) Burning the city to the ground advances the story. If she doesn't, the next episode is pretty much a coronation. Now, Jon has to make a decision about where his loyalties lie: with Dany (his love) or with his family (Starks). Go back to the scene with Arya and Jon reunion where she reminds of being loyal to family.
3) I disagree Arya was useless. The Hound showed Arya the price to be paid for vengeance. He likely not only saved her physically but also emotionally as she was trying to save others. The writers always said she was used to show the destruction through a character we care about. Otherwise, just a bunch of extras dying.
4) Wow, the golden army certainly didn't last long. Surprised that this battle went down so quick.
5) The Mountain turned out to be Frankenstein. He just wouldn't die.
6) We found out the girl was spying for Varys and not Quyborn.
7) Yes, I was entertained. Another great episode. I can understand the criticisms of last episode, but I think this season has been epic.
Some loose ends:
(a) DId Davos deliver on the favor asked by Tyrion? Was it only to have a boat ready for Jaime or something else?
(b) Did Varys send his notes and to whom? He burnt one but not others.
(c) If prophecy is true, Dany will not sit on the throne per her vision. She will die and join Drogo.
(d) Will Bronn and Yara show up? They kind of have been written out of show with Bronn saying this isn't his fight and Yara attacking other lands.
(e) Brienne, Gendry and others still in the North. Does Jon somehow turn the North against Dany? I know the wildlings are heading north of the wall and seemingly out of the picture, but who knows.
(f) What becomes of Greyworm? He doesn't want to remain in a foreign land and stated he will stay until Dany's enemies are defeated. Can't imagine the Dothraki wanting to stay in Westeros either.
(g) Is Bran's and Sam's storyline finished? Or do they have a role in the finale?
My prediction is that Tyrion will rule,with Sansa, and they will introduce some version of democracy. Sam, Yara, Bronn and Gendry will be part of some democratic council as heads in the respective areas.
Jon will either head north or maybe even kill himself with grief. Arya will kill Dany via change of face. She will become a lone crusader for the downtrodden.
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Interesting take.
Essentially, Game of Thrones devoted its climax to portraying the horrors of war, and to a longtime hero becoming a monster. It’s a bold, unforgettable statement — an instantly iconic and shocking late turn to the eight-season saga.
And it’s entirely consistent with the series’ core themes and motifs: the misuse of power, how innocents suffer when the high lords seek power, and the subversion of expectations. That is, it’s classic George R.R. Martin. (Martin, who wrote the Song of Ice and Fire novels on which the TV show is based, revealed his planned ending to showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss years ago, and recently said he doesn’t think their ending will be “that different” from his own.)
https://www.vox.com/2019/5/13/18617648/game-of-thrones-season-8-bells-dany-burns-kings-landing
Essentially, Game of Thrones devoted its climax to portraying the horrors of war, and to a longtime hero becoming a monster. It’s a bold, unforgettable statement — an instantly iconic and shocking late turn to the eight-season saga.
And it’s entirely consistent with the series’ core themes and motifs: the misuse of power, how innocents suffer when the high lords seek power, and the subversion of expectations. That is, it’s classic George R.R. Martin. (Martin, who wrote the Song of Ice and Fire novels on which the TV show is based, revealed his planned ending to showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss years ago, and recently said he doesn’t think their ending will be “that different” from his own.)
https://www.vox.com/2019/5/13/18617648/game-of-thrones-season-8-bells-dany-burns-kings-landing
Not sure how the books will go but I think it was a big mistake not having the final showdown with the Night King. Either the kingdoms should have banded together and let him advance more or the kingdoms were settled by conflict then left to face the Night King. I didn"t like how they tied up ANY of the storylines last episode. Great visuals, terrible storytelling. Probably makes me more interested for the books to complete in the hope GRRM has a better conclusion than what we got from TV.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Totally agree - with another season or two of episodes to better establish Dany's 'turn', this storyline works. With a time crunch, better to have the NK as the 'final boss'.
I am actually OK with how they tied up most of the storylines and more or less made the final episode pretty "easy" to wrap up the entire series.
Over the last few weeks, the Night King is done and the Lannisters are done. Many of the auxiliary characters have also been 'settled'. Sam is going his way. Thoron is going back to the north with the free people. Sansa is settled in as Lady of Winterfell. There really are only a few auxiliary characters who story lines are still 'open', such as Bronn. But again, those are not big time series changing events.
As far as the big time series impacting characters are concerned, the last episode really did a good job of setting clear paths. Jon has to realize now that he has to eliminate Danny. Jon is blindly loyal like a dog, and he is not the brightest guy. But even he would have to realize that Danny is mad, and the next logical person in her cross-hairs would be himself and/or Sansa. He is now her only real threat to the throne, because he is the rightful heir. And Sansa is obviously someone Danny knows betrayed her. Even naïve Jon would know that it is now "kill or be killed" when it comes to Danny in regards to both himself and his sister.
I don't want to predict how this will end. But I think the last episode did a pretty good job of setting up a Jon vs. Danny for the series finale.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Disagree. It's the ending most expected and knew was coming.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Disagree. You guys must not visit too many other GoT boards/resources. Or pay attention to twitter.
I believe the show hinted at the possibility of Danny going mad throughout the entire 8 years. It's just that everyone liked the idea of her being a good Queen. But there were definitely hints -- some subtle / some obvious -- over the years that Danny had the trigger in her to go mad.
I actually feel worse for Jon than Danny. Like I said, I think the show gave us "clues" over the 8 years that she was a loose canon who could be like her Dad. But over the 8 years Jon was the shining character. He was righteous, he was honest, he was loyal ... And now, I think Jon is going to see that his unbending honesty, helped kill a million innocent people. There were times towards the end of the last episode where the expression on Jon's face looked like he realized he was partially at fault. He could have listened to Varys. He could have told Danny something different ..... these are all thoughts that would be going thru his mind. All because he always wants to be so damn honest.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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He could have kept his mouth shut about his parents...
.The 'hints' suggesting Dany's turn (I won't use the word mad since it's not appropriate) towards vengeance aren't really that substantive. She's at least done as much, if not more, good in that same time. Even with the Tarley's she gave them a choice. So, it is what it is and would have been more powerful if allowed more time to develop. Still, looking forward to seeing what happens.
I think there is a big difference between "the ending no one WANTED" vs. "the ending no one EXPECTED".
Yes. I would probably agree, that no one WANTED Danny to go mad and kill a million innocent people.
But, as shocked as I was Sunday night when it was happening. By Monday, when I had a chance to process it, I realized that the writers did lay out a bunch of clues over 8 years.
I think you both have a point. I believe most everyone knew the ending was going to be tragic. With the way the show set up everyone's love of Dany, I believe in the back of most minds, we all knew the likelihood of her going off the rails was a very real scenario. Afterall, they killed the moral compass character (Ned Stark) in season one. So, if anything, this show has set the tone to be tragic from the start.
However, it was just last year everyone was hoping that Jon was going to put a baby in Dany (even though she cannot have one) and rule in bliss with a little prince for an heir. That was the overwhelming popular ending that I kept hearing/seeing when reading people giving their opinion/hopes. But, again, this show has proven that it is not a fairytale in the traditional sense. So there will be no real nice and tidy happily ever after.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Agree, noting Ned is only considered a 'moral compass' because we didn't see what he did during Robert's Rebellion.
I was shocked by the social media outrage. It suggest to me that people haven't been paying attention (this story was never going to have a happy ending and there have been plenty of hints about Dany "breaking bad"). Or maybe my view is different because I've read the books.
I get the criticism that this season has felt rushed (it has), but where we've ended up is pretty much where I thought we'd end up (on a macroscale anyway).
I also am OUTRAGED at the "hot taeks" that I've read that the writers are biased against females because of Dany's story arc. The show has a ton of strong female characters with nuanced story arcs that highlight there character development. Not all female characters have to be presented in a positive light (just as not all male characters have to be presented in a positive light).
Agree. Someone being a "morale compass" on this show is kind of a relative term.
