Wrestler assisted suicide, beautiful.
Wrestling Rutgers Dual Thread 1/16
- Thread starter Oopie46
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Give him credit for taking one for the team. It's not much fun getting your butt kicked in front of a full Rec Hall, which he had to know was the likely outcome. The only chance he had to win was if the Rutgers kid injury defaulted. By giving up a TF and not a pin he saved the team one point. I suspect the staff was neither surprised nor disappointed..
Top doesn't work. Escape by BB would give him a 4-3 win.
In any case, I suspect another rule change will be in order for next year.
Yeah, you're right. It's late and I didn't think that through
Actually, in 2020 Jarod took both Sammy Sasso and Brayton Lee into overtime and beat Graham Rooks and Yahya Thomas to qualify for the cancelled national tournament.
And he lost those OT matches. Nobody denies Jarod could wrestle close matches. You don’t get points for that. Beau has shown an ability to beat a returning AA (don’t compare beating 2020 Yahya to beating an AA btw lol) and like I said two of his lost matches this year had Rivera’s fingerprints all over it (though Beau will need to take him out of those matches going forward since Rivera isn’t going anywhere)
My thot exactly … what is the difference between awarding a stalling call (point) for a wrestler backing off the mat boundary line to avoid wrestling and a wrestler taking 5 steps straight backwards (although in bounds) to avoid wrestling? And why o why are we subjected to Angel Rivera so many matches … guy is always in the middle of so many controversial calls … the VAST majority of which go against Penn State.
Jarod's 15-4 wrestling for Virginia. A match with Beau would be an almost guaranteed 1-1 overtime event.
Pay attn ..VB did all the shooting so how did Beau outwrestle him and it was VB who chose neutral which if you knew anything about criteria you would know it’s the obvious choice .
Beau outwrestled him because it only went to OT due to a highly questionable illegal hold point against him, because he was the one not being awarded a TD at the end of regulation when it was very close, because he was the one not being awarded a TD at the end of the first SV when it was very close, because he was the one not being awarded danger points in the first SV when Angel even counted it off, and because he wasn’t the one that ran away for 30 secs in the 12th minute on a stupid rule change that everyone hates. MVB might have won the match but Beau definitely outwrestled him. It happens.
Hey guys forgive me while I catch up.
I wish there was a camera on the PSU corner during this sequence. Every coach and several of our wrestlers were screaming and gesturing at Beau to just spin behind. He wised up too late once MVB got both paws to a leg.
It may be cheddar-grin worthy, but I really think this was “that dual”. Most of our guys had lower than average energy. RBY barely moved his feet. Drew, Beau, Tony, Max all seemed a bit drained.
What’s different this year is that RT decides it after 2 rounds, right?
ESPN pbp guy had the quote of the night when he likened wrestling Brooks to wrestling a Garbage Compactor (from the inside). The pressure comes from all directions at once, and it only gets worse from there.
Don’t the home coaches get to pick their refs? This might actually be the strategy. Tryna teach our young team to take things out of the refs hands?
no, that's not new. that's been the case as long as i can remember. for example, go check out the 2011 141 NCAA bracket. Kellen Russell won both is quarter and semi "3-3" on riding time in tiebreaks.
And, 10 yrs later, the sport still hasn't learned from that.
just rewatched the bartlett match. angel got things right.
as dumb a rule as it is, bartlett did leave both feet simultaneously to hit that cut back. the problem is with the dumb rule, not angel. he's not supposed to ignore them because they're dumb. cael didn't argue it. i think that says a lot.
and it definitely wasn't 2 in OT and actually wasn't nearly as close as i remember. van brill always had a leg. he tried to pass twice and got stopped, but immediately turned back out of danger zone criteria both times. was never close to a 3 count. angel also never signaled 2 at any point. that was on the scoreboard people.
to me, the biggest issue was bartlett wasted a masterful far ankle exchange by not continuing to wrestle when van brill was bellied out and only had on hand on the leg. bartlett needs to be peeling that hand and working behind.
angel has actually been one of the better officials all year. that's not a good thing unfortunately.
as dumb a rule as it is, bartlett did leave both feet simultaneously to hit that cut back. the problem is with the dumb rule, not angel. he's not supposed to ignore them because they're dumb. cael didn't argue it. i think that says a lot.
and it definitely wasn't 2 in OT and actually wasn't nearly as close as i remember. van brill always had a leg. he tried to pass twice and got stopped, but immediately turned back out of danger zone criteria both times. was never close to a 3 count. angel also never signaled 2 at any point. that was on the scoreboard people.
to me, the biggest issue was bartlett wasted a masterful far ankle exchange by not continuing to wrestle when van brill was bellied out and only had on hand on the leg. bartlett needs to be peeling that hand and working behind.
angel has actually been one of the better officials all year. that's not a good thing unfortunately.
It is also true if Berge can Beat Edsell, we are also stronger as a team going in to postseason. I am not sweating where Berge wrestles. We are just better with him. He looked good on Sunday. Attacked often and was extremely quick on his counters.
There is no difference. That is why there is a penalty point in Freestyle for "Fleeing" as well as "Fleeing the hold" (i.e., if you break a tie and run backwards away from other wrestler to create separation.).
Unfortunately, you were doing fine until you said this...
"angel has actually been one of the better officials all year"
Beau does bear some responsibility for not wrestling through at a point or two. Angel didn't have the nads to call stalling in the final period when, without a doubt, what MVB did was the very definition of stalling. Angel also has blown several calls this season. He is actually one of the worst out there and I don't think it's only Penn State fans who believe this.
"angel has actually been one of the better officials all year"
Beau does bear some responsibility for not wrestling through at a point or two. Angel didn't have the nads to call stalling in the final period when, without a doubt, what MVB did was the very definition of stalling. Angel also has blown several calls this season. He is actually one of the worst out there and I don't think it's only Penn State fans who believe this.
This could begin one of our typical longstanding board jokes. Yesterday, after Dean beat Bulsak, this happened...
You know given the family pedigree of Dean, against Buldak's, I think Bulaak is the better wrestler. Max's father Dave, has given both his boys every advantage to be great wrestlers. On the opposite end you got Bulsak who doesn't come from that lineage. There's something to be said about that.
RUCrackers
Sophomore
You know given the family pedigree of Dean, against Buldak's, I think Bulaak is the better wrestler. Max's father Dave, has given both his boys every advantage to be great wrestlers. On the opposite end you got Bulsak who doesn't come from that lineage. There's something to be said about that.
If you read the entire post, it was clear that @js8793 called Rivera one of the tallest midgets, not objectively tall.
Uh, I believe Beau was the one who scored the only offensive TD or any TD for that matter. If Angel was competent, Beau scored two more TDs that I remember as well (end of regulation and end of SV).
Van Brill didn't get to be Double Secret Elite by doing all of the scoring.
Beau lost because he didn’t convert on the multiple near takedowns he could have had.
Angel made the right calls, particularly on the reaction time one.
Angel made the right calls, particularly on the reaction time one.
I spit out my coffee this morning reading his take. Then to make it more fun he spells Bulsak's name 3 different ways in the same post
My bad, the other difference this year is that riding time criteria after the first tiebreakers would have determined the winner and negated the second round of sudden victory & tiebreakers. So Van Brill could’ve chosen neutral in TB1 and also have won (assuming no takedowns).
The Bulsak Variant. Mask up, last thing you want is the latest
*assuming non-consent
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My opinion on Bartlett - Van Brill is:
1) BB left the points on the board, not Rivera
2) You wrestle a bunch of 1 point and OT matches you're going to lose some - I don't care who you are. If AB is in an OT match with Pozanski for some reason (they shorten regulation to 2 minutes, ha), he's going to drop one or two out of 10. BB is good in these situations but it is not realistic to expect him to win more than 5 to 7 out of 10 at the most.
3) Yes, the double OT can be gamed. But does it really make a difference about the win yesterday? It's not making him a better wrestler at 149 if he wins, you still have to deal with #1 and #2 which are the rules rather than the exceptions at this point.
4) This is the 2nd time this year, I believe, that he's given up a penalty point or technical violation which has had a direct influence on the outcome. When you look at #2 above, you can't afford to do this.
As fans, we tend to look at the exceptions rather than the norms when it suits us, and the norms rather than the exceptions when it suits us as well. In reality, it's almost always the latter. Meaning Hildebrandt is going to be in a bunch of close matches until the end of the regular season and through the tourneys no matter how much time he spends in the PSU room, 157 is probably not going to qualify from the wrestlers we have now, Berge likely is going to qualify at whatever weight he ends up at as long as he doesn't get injured, etc. BB is going to qualify and I think it is unlikely that he can AA and score many points unless he falls into the right seed. At this point I don't think around 12 to 20 is going to be a good spot for him, I think he would be better served being lower than 20 if he can't get himself up to around 11 (which will be very difficult for him at this point).
1) BB left the points on the board, not Rivera
2) You wrestle a bunch of 1 point and OT matches you're going to lose some - I don't care who you are. If AB is in an OT match with Pozanski for some reason (they shorten regulation to 2 minutes, ha), he's going to drop one or two out of 10. BB is good in these situations but it is not realistic to expect him to win more than 5 to 7 out of 10 at the most.
3) Yes, the double OT can be gamed. But does it really make a difference about the win yesterday? It's not making him a better wrestler at 149 if he wins, you still have to deal with #1 and #2 which are the rules rather than the exceptions at this point.
4) This is the 2nd time this year, I believe, that he's given up a penalty point or technical violation which has had a direct influence on the outcome. When you look at #2 above, you can't afford to do this.
As fans, we tend to look at the exceptions rather than the norms when it suits us, and the norms rather than the exceptions when it suits us as well. In reality, it's almost always the latter. Meaning Hildebrandt is going to be in a bunch of close matches until the end of the regular season and through the tourneys no matter how much time he spends in the PSU room, 157 is probably not going to qualify from the wrestlers we have now, Berge likely is going to qualify at whatever weight he ends up at as long as he doesn't get injured, etc. BB is going to qualify and I think it is unlikely that he can AA and score many points unless he falls into the right seed. At this point I don't think around 12 to 20 is going to be a good spot for him, I think he would be better served being lower than 20 if he can't get himself up to around 11 (which will be very difficult for him at this point).
Again, Bartlett already had the TD - he had VB flat on his back and he was chest-to-chest with him - and VB did not have his leg. That is a TD by rule - match was over at that point. VB did not get a hold of Beau's leg until after he had managed to roll back over onto his stomach, but again, it doesn't matter at that point, he was already takedown once he is on his back and Bartlett is chest-to-chest to him. Complete bullshit how Rivera called the end of SV1.
I think all the hand-wringing over the way an official calls a match is more understandable if the stakes are high. I don’t believe the stakes were high in Bartlett’s match yesterday.
Rather, I think the real issue is that many have certain expectations for Bartlett’s point potential at Nationals. If an official’s calls are truly going to be the difference in matches against R12-R16 types, then the real issue here might be fans’ expectations.
There is still time to refine an approach and clean some things up before B1Gs. In the meantime, we should probably relax a bit and acknowledge there is significant work to do to solidify a spot in the AA tier many are hoping for (or expecting). At this point in the process, the official is irrelevant to the task at hand.
Rather, I think the real issue is that many have certain expectations for Bartlett’s point potential at Nationals. If an official’s calls are truly going to be the difference in matches against R12-R16 types, then the real issue here might be fans’ expectations.
There is still time to refine an approach and clean some things up before B1Gs. In the meantime, we should probably relax a bit and acknowledge there is significant work to do to solidify a spot in the AA tier many are hoping for (or expecting). At this point in the process, the official is irrelevant to the task at hand.
You would think 6 years in college wrestling would mitigate any advantage Dean might have had 12 years ago.
