Team USA / Yasar Dogu / July 11-14
- Thread starter diggerpup
- Start date
Ringer up now vs. Iran.
- Ties and half shots in the first minute. Both these dudes look terrifyingly strong.
- Iran on Clock. Expires. 1-0 Ringer.
- 1-0 at the break.
:::::Ringer should cornrow his hair like PD3::::::
- Ringer step out. Had a double for a quick second. Great Defense from Iran. 2-0.
- More Ties. Dudes are strong. Couple attempts from Ringer go nowhere. Iran waiting to shoot til the end?
- Iran shoots had an ankle for a second, Ringer horsepowers him instead. 4-0.
- Iran quits with 10 seconds left.
USA!
- Ties and half shots in the first minute. Both these dudes look terrifyingly strong.
- Iran on Clock. Expires. 1-0 Ringer.
- 1-0 at the break.
:::::Ringer should cornrow his hair like PD3::::::
- Ringer step out. Had a double for a quick second. Great Defense from Iran. 2-0.
- More Ties. Dudes are strong. Couple attempts from Ringer go nowhere. Iran waiting to shoot til the end?
- Iran shoots had an ankle for a second, Ringer horsepowers him instead. 4-0.
- Iran quits with 10 seconds left.
USA!
GWIZ up now vs. India. Had a bye to the Semis.
- Per usual, giving up some girth.
- India on clock. Gwiz takes him down anyways. 2-0.
- Gwiz snatches a leg, but big man has some athleticism and Gwiz can't finish. 2-0 at the break.
:::
retty sure Cody is in Gwiz corner:::::
- Gwiz TD pretty quickly. 4-0.
- India with a nice quick pick to make it 4-2.
- Gwiz gets a single leg. Throws the dude's leg to his head and completes the take down. These dudes are both freaks. 6-2 Gwiz.
- And that is how it ends. Impressed by both.
USA!
- Per usual, giving up some girth.
- India on clock. Gwiz takes him down anyways. 2-0.
- Gwiz snatches a leg, but big man has some athleticism and Gwiz can't finish. 2-0 at the break.
:::
retty sure Cody is in Gwiz corner:::::- Gwiz TD pretty quickly. 4-0.
- India with a nice quick pick to make it 4-2.
- Gwiz gets a single leg. Throws the dude's leg to his head and completes the take down. These dudes are both freaks. 6-2 Gwiz.
- And that is how it ends. Impressed by both.
USA!
Everyone that loses to a finalist gets pulled back into the tournament for the chance at bronze. Called Repechage which is french for follow the leader if you failed.
And he will be done at 2:01, not gonna drive half way cross the continent for that.
Tomorrow. In his first match, he'll have the guy Yianni teched in the quarters. If he wins that, he'll wrestle for bronze against the "Hungarian" Yianni just came back to beat. (The "Hungarian" is actually a Russian who wrestles for Hungary. He won a junior world silver for Russia a few years ago.)
that's not a fault of freestyle. if world's were folkstyle they'd still be wrestling at that time.
Not HR logic, it's my logic. I just want what's best for the USA at worlds.
A minute of elite wrestling would have been erased if they hadn't gone back a minute to correct the scoring mistake.
If worlds were folkstyle this country wouldn't be complaining about the low viewership and attendance.
Good insight wasn't aware of the previous Russian-ness.
Nowadays, Russia & Pennsylvania are basically the same - exporting their wrestlers to lesser countries/Colleges.
cc: @WildTurk
my bad, i thought you were on the 'freestyle is bad' side but you're saying freestyle is fine, USA is just bad at getting people to realize freestyle is fine.
Yeah, I'm not against freestyle I just can't get into it like college wrestling. Both styles could use some tweaking to make it a better product but both have their own unique qualities as well.
It’s kind of like the metric system. Anyone with a brain realizes it blows the American measurement system completely out of the water, but you kno Murica.
Also, a big part of the reason folkstyle is so popular is it’s tied to the universities. If the NCAA went to free, most fans would come for the ride.
This is reasonable everyone. Not good for our guy, but he's gotta beat him.
Agree - I'm a folk lover and struggle to understand and appreciate free. Yianni got 4 for what? He never was in control on that move, but got 4 points? Therefore is one of my many struggles with free.....
No it's not reasonable. Zain already beat Yianni at the designated event -- but let's keep having Yianni face Zain until he wins, and then declare he was the better guy all along, or the guy with the higher ceiling, or whatever other excuse.
Let's remove our guy from it. Gwiz beat Steveson 2x by criteria -- why not give Steveson post-Trials rematches?
This is the Dogu. Not the Olympics. Have they now said Zain doesn't get the spot? Bo is going to smoke someone in the next few days where he didn't compete at that event to qualify. He is the better guy with a higher ceiling. I know it's slightly different situation, but where are you for Woodley? What side of that argument? Bo gets a shot now to make the US team better and I support that. I know this stance won't be well liked in this forum, but as a Penn State guy, I just see it as slightly hypocritical.
But YOU don't get to decide what is best for USA and thank God for that. I definitely don;t want the decision of who makes our National Team left up to a troll and not a good troll at that.
It’s clearly not the end of the story. As they are appealing. Easily arguable that Zain didn’t win 2 matches. I think match 2 should be rewrestled. Yianni was clearly the better wrestler today.
Who caused Zain to roll onto his back then? Control is making the other person do something. Do you think Zain wanted to go onto his back?
Full disclosure, I rarely agree with WildTurk and most of time with El-Jefe. I guess just not here. The only thing that matters to me is Worlds and Olympics. The rest is just part of the process.
I am not alone in my assessment. Check the internetsBut YOU don't get to decide what is best for USA and thank God for that. I definitely don;t want the decision of who makes our National Team left up to a troll and not a good troll at that.
The Woodley/Bo situation was written into the qualifying criteria. They aren’t just making up the rules on the fly, which is what would be happening if this match counted for anything for Yianni.
You're obfuscating in multiple ways:
1. The people advocating for Yianni are saying he should be on the 2019 World Team. Not the 2020 Olympics. And they're using 2019 Dogu to cancel out the 2019 World Team Trials.
2. The Bo-Woodley match is entirely within the written rules. Those rules allow Bo to try out for U23s now because he tried out for the Senior Team at the same time as the U23 Trials.
All due respect, this is crazy dumb.
USA Wrestling spells out the criteria for making the world team ... win 2 of 3 at Final X.
Either (a) Zain has already won 2 of 3 and has earned the spot or (b) the arbitrator throws out the disputed second match and they re-wrestle it (and a possible third).
Nowhere in USA Wrestling's bylaws or charter does it say they can just go ahead and change the world-team selection process after the fact by awarding the 65 kg spot based on the results of the Yasar Dogu.
If they try to do that, Zain will file a complaint and they will get crushed in arbitration.
Bo Nickal qualifies for a wrestle off for the U23 team because USA Wrestling is following its selection procedures.
Yianni is not going to be awarded the world team spot based on Dogu results for the same reason.
Rob Koll will never hire you with that attitude.
Does it? I guess we'll see.
I get it. I do. It's not a good thing for Zain and your avatar is Zain, so I understand you are a fan.
Have we seen something formal from USA Wrestling on the results of the protest committee? One must assume based on Koll's comments, it was formally filed.
I pulled this from the 2019 World Team Trials Qualification & Procedures Men’s Freestyle document on their website.
Protests concerning eligibility of a contestant, adherence to the terms of this document, and other matters of procedure shall be reviewed by a Protest Committee comprised by the following individuals: a. President of USA Wrestling, or his designee, who shall act as chairperson. b. One or more members of the USA Wrestling Board of Directors appointed by the chairperson of the Protest Committee. Sport Committee members of the style being protested are ineligible to serve on the Protest Committee. i. Any member of the Protest Committee shall disqualify him or herself from a protest hearing if they have personal ties to any contestant in the same weight. ii. Any situation not specifically addressed in this document shall be resolved under standard procedures of USA Wrestling.
I point to ii. and if the committee wants to see more since this is such a convoluted situation, so be it. I see nothing that points to the exact process the protest committee has to follow. If someone pulls that, I'll walk back on everything I'm saying.
You keep saying this isn't reasonable and Nickal/Woodley is "by the rules" and "rules on the fly". I just don't see it that way. I see it as such a difficult situation where a minute of wrestling was or was not counted. That's all.
I'm having trouble following your point. If the Nickal situation is a "by the book" following of the rules, what's wrong with that?
Yianni is protesting, which is his right and "by the book". To me the committe can only find the following results as part of the protest: a re-wrestling of the round, a confirmation of Zain's win, or a reversal to Yianni's win (don't know the rules on how this works).
How does a non-USA wrestling event factor into USA Wrestling standard procedures?
Yianni is protesting, which is his right and "by the book". To me the committe can only find the following results as part of the protest: a re-wrestling of the round, a confirmation of Zain's win, or a reversal to Yianni's win (don't know the rules on how this works).
How does a non-USA wrestling event factor into USA Wrestling standard procedures?
I hate to say it but for freestyle Yanni is one of those generational talents. He is a cross between a Wizard and a Gumby. Zain was a generational talent for folkstyle but his massive top game is mostly useless in free and that is what really separated him from the NCAA pack.
Zain can and will beat Yanni from time to time but as Yanni matures I think he becomes a world champion someday. I hope they gravitate to different weight classes.
I remain on the fence if Zain's game can translate to the best in the world level freestyle, but for 90% of the guys out there I think it takes 3 full years to make the transition. So Zain's best is still ahead. Guys like JB and possibly Yanni are outliers who can transition on the fly.
I hope Yanni Loses the appeal but if not I think they toss out the second match and Zain will take him out (1 of 2) this time. Over time Yanni is the real deal and look out world when he can focus on free 100%.
Zain can and will beat Yanni from time to time but as Yanni matures I think he becomes a world champion someday. I hope they gravitate to different weight classes.
I remain on the fence if Zain's game can translate to the best in the world level freestyle, but for 90% of the guys out there I think it takes 3 full years to make the transition. So Zain's best is still ahead. Guys like JB and possibly Yanni are outliers who can transition on the fly.
I hope Yanni Loses the appeal but if not I think they toss out the second match and Zain will take him out (1 of 2) this time. Over time Yanni is the real deal and look out world when he can focus on free 100%.
In the midst of the yianni love fest ......why is match 1 at the WTT discounted, dismissed, or downgraded?????????????
I think you need to read some more of the chain and my comments with all due respect. We are saying the same thing. I'm advocating for Yianni to be able to wrestle at Dogu because it doesn't matter in the overall process. El Jefe's argument is that it does matter and he should never be there.Which I don't see anything that says it could or would. It's the best thing for USA Wrestling to have him compete there and to keep getting better for the same exact reason I think Bo should have his chance. It's what is best for the whole.
Can Gilman demand a rematch too because he has a 10 cent head and took the dumbest shot in the history of the sport? Asking for my friend WildTurk
I think fans need to put down the pipe. This isn't about you, what you want, and it isn't about Zain. This is about the process for qualifying. Dogu has nothing to do with this. I don't even know why people would want it to be. It's like people complaining about the electoral college when they know that's the rules of the game.
Many on here confusing the issues most have with this.
The world team is selected by a set of defined rules (rules that also define the opportunity for Bo to wrestle Woodley). By those rules, Zain won the spot, 2 matches to 0.
Yianni is appealing the result of match 2, and appeals are also defined in those rules (whether they apply in this situation is another matter, but for the benefit of the doubt here, let's say that the situation is subject to review). If his appeal is upheld, then the result of the 2nd match will be thrown out, it will be rewrestled and they will/should resume the best of 3 with Zain leading 1 match to 0.
I'm not sure how that can be argued against. Yianni's US Open victory, Yasar Dogu and the results of the 2019 and 2020 NCAA championships all carry about the same weight in terms of selecting the world team (although you could argue that the US Open carries more weight in terms of bracketing for the WTT, but still no weight in earning the spot.) ZERO
I love Yianni, really do and I have for quite a while (I think I made a post on here a couple of years ago claiming he was my #1 prospect of the 2017 class). And the US Open result left me about as untroubled as I could be for a PSUer like Zain losing. I was about 51-49 on that one even though I think Zain is great (and is a 2x ETR champ!).
But people claiming that Yianni should have the spot after this, or even claiming that this result should affect the appeal - that's pretty much a BS opinion. But everyone is entitled to one.
The world team is selected by a set of defined rules (rules that also define the opportunity for Bo to wrestle Woodley). By those rules, Zain won the spot, 2 matches to 0.
Yianni is appealing the result of match 2, and appeals are also defined in those rules (whether they apply in this situation is another matter, but for the benefit of the doubt here, let's say that the situation is subject to review). If his appeal is upheld, then the result of the 2nd match will be thrown out, it will be rewrestled and they will/should resume the best of 3 with Zain leading 1 match to 0.
I'm not sure how that can be argued against. Yianni's US Open victory, Yasar Dogu and the results of the 2019 and 2020 NCAA championships all carry about the same weight in terms of selecting the world team (although you could argue that the US Open carries more weight in terms of bracketing for the WTT, but still no weight in earning the spot.) ZERO
I love Yianni, really do and I have for quite a while (I think I made a post on here a couple of years ago claiming he was my #1 prospect of the 2017 class). And the US Open result left me about as untroubled as I could be for a PSUer like Zain losing. I was about 51-49 on that one even though I think Zain is great (and is a 2x ETR champ!).
But people claiming that Yianni should have the spot after this, or even claiming that this result should affect the appeal - that's pretty much a BS opinion. But everyone is entitled to one.
It can not be hypocritical. It isn't seeing 2 different conclusions given 2 quite similar situations. Yanni-Zain and Bo-Woodley are 2 completely unrelated situations.
It's a combat sport. And the sequence you described wouldn't really accomplish much in combat. I'm in agreement with you. There's a difference between not "getting" it and not liking it.
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