U23 Worlds

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
3,889
6,201
1
Let’s go Vito!
Vito in on a shot. Step out 1-0. In again and this time finishes and straight to a lace. 5-0. Vito gives up a Td in a scramble. 5-2. Vito gets a single to a step out. 6-2. Crazy scramble and KGZ gets 2. 6-4 at the break. Step out 6-5. Again. 6-6 and KGZ has criteria. Td KGZ and it’s 8-6. Min and a half left. Another Td and it’s 10-6. Vito has fallen apart. Stopped attacking and getting moved all over the mat. Min left. Injury time so hopefully Vito got his breath for a sprint. Vito goes down 11-6. Wow
He's training in the wrong place
 
  • Like
Reactions: danoftw

El-Jefe

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2012
27,367
59,191
1
Is it strange that Vito is wrestling 57kg but will not wrestle 125 this year and that Sloan who is doing awesome will be cutting 17 lbs to wrestle in NCAA's?
Not really. Lots of 133s have made that cut for one event instead of for a full season.

And Sloan may simply have chosen to not cut for this event. It happens.
 

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
3,889
6,201
1
Carter up v Yergesh (KAZ)
  • Choppy feed, hope it holds up.
  • (it is not holding up; dropping frame rate helps slightly, maybe?)
  • Still 0-0 thru 1:30, Yergesh put on clock
  • Carter gets the shot clock point.
  • 1-0 at break. Carter definitely the aggressor, but neither guy doing much so far.
  • Yergesh with a TD, looking lace, appears to have it, and he's scoring. 8-1, Carter in a hole.
  • Carter with a double and a lace of his own for two more, 8-5.
  • Carter in on legs, now Yergesh in on legs. :33 remaining.
  • Carter with a single and... the feed is "experiencing technical difficulties."
  • It is over. Per Twitter, Carter got two more to close it to 8-7 but that's it. Carter will wrestle for Bronze.
Someday I may be a free convert. I enjoy it but will forever lobby against a single lace move dictating the victory or ending the match outright with a 10 point sequence.

Limiting any one move to 6 points max. will go a long way towards fixing it. First Zain now Carter. This list is long for team USA men, women all ages.

I didn't see the match but the PBP certainly seemed to indicate Carter was the aggressor, succeeded on more offensive attacks. It's brutal to try and overcome an 8 point hole from one move. I just don't like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski and PD4thespawn

nerfstate

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2017
8,935
22,298
1
Someday I may be a free convert. I enjoy it but will forever lobby against a single lace move dictating the victory or ending the match outright with a 10 point sequence.

Limiting any one move to 6 points max. will go a long way towards fixing it. First Zain now Carter. This list is long for team USA men, women all ages.

I didn't see the match but the PBP certainly seemed to indicate Carter was the aggressor, succeeded on more offensive attacks. It's brutal to try and overcome an 8 point hole from one move. I just don't like it.
You've certainly made your case for this (and I wouldn't hate the change, personally)--but in this case, the Kazak got a takedown, and 3 lace turns for 8 points. Carter got a passivity point, 2 TDs, and 1 turn via lace for 7. So even w/ your proposed rule, the result would have been the same.
 
Last edited:

AndEEss

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2020
1,477
2,765
1
You've certainly made your case for this (and I wouldn't hate the change, personally)--but in this case, the Azeri got a takedown, and 3 lace turns for 8 points. Carter got a passivity point, 2 TDs, and 1 turn via lace for 7. So even w/ your proposed rule, the result would have been the same.
Kazakh would have had 6 points from his TD + turns under his proposed rule, no?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shifty15

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
3,889
6,201
1
You've certainly made your case for this (and I wouldn't hate the change, personally)--but in this case, the Azeri got a takedown, and 3 lace turns for 8 points. Carter got a passivity point, 2 TDs, and 1 turn via lace for 7. So even w/ your proposed rule, the result would have been the same.
No, Azeri would have got only 6 points. In my book 2 turns is enough dominance from one move. Many times the difference between 2 turns and 5 and ending the match outright is position on the mat, which has a bit of luck involved.

PS - it cuts both ways. I may appreciate the victory, when our guys lace someone out of a match, but I don't appreciate it as a definitive show of dominance. I do appreciate the skill shown to get to a lace in the first place, but whether it be a 4 or 10 point move has an element of luck, both in the depth of the lock as well as where they are on the mat at the time. I would be much more impressed with someone displaying dominance by getting two separate laces in a match and closing it out that way.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

nerfstate

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2017
8,935
22,298
1
No, Azeri would have got only 6 points. In my book 2 turns is enough dominance from one move. Many times the difference between 2 turns and 5 and ending the match outright is position on the mat, which has a bit of luck involved.
You said "6 points max from any single move." He scored 6 points from the ankle lace position. If you include the takedown, I'm not sure I understand your proposal. A takedown is a very different "move" than an ankle lace.

And sorry, my bad, the opponent is a Kazak, not an Azeri.
 

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
3,889
6,201
1

You said "6 points max from any single move." He scored 6 points from the ankle lace position. If you include the takedown, I'm not sure I understand your proposal. A takedown is a very different "move" than an ankle lace.

And sorry, my bad, the opponent is a Kazak, not an Azeri.
Ok, you got me, the context was correct but the language not specific enough. 6 points from any one sequence.
 

nerfstate

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2017
8,935
22,298
1
Ok, you got me, the context was correct but the language not specific enough. 6 points from any one sequence.
Hmm, I still wouldn't tie the takedown to the lace. To get what you seem to want, I'd stick with your original language, and cap points from a single hold or position to 4 points in par terre. You stay clear of 5 pointers, please, they are the greatest.

Oddly enough, Carter was a beast w/ the ankle lace today--but only ever got one each time he did it. It looks like it's going to score him a lot of points down the road. And since I don't think UWW cares much what GogglesPaizano wants ( ;)) , I imagine he'll eventually start getting quick techs with it too. David said on FRL quick techs is part of why Sadulaev is as good as he is. Get off the mat, and save your energy for the next one.
 
Last edited:

tikk10

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2015
6,098
18,316
1
Interesting how the Japanese women wrestlers don't all share a typical body type, they're basically all successful.

Amit Elor up for gold next.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NoVaLion2

tikk10

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2015
6,098
18,316
1
Amit Elor v Wiktoria Choluj (POL)
  • Elor looking front headlock, driving forward.
  • Elor quick off the whistle each time. She has no reverse gear.
  • Elor with an underhook, throws Choluj by and is up 2-0.
  • Similar sequence but Choluj defends well at the edge.
  • Choluj gives up a shot clock point, 3-0.
  • Elor TD at the edge, gut, up 7-0 with short time left in first.
  • Break.
  • Choluj worn down by Elor, who breaks down, goes behind, easy lace. 11-0.
  • 3x world champ in the same year. Awesome achievement.
 
Last edited:

js8793

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,137
3,834
1
pretty classless post match antics from starocci there. spent 2 minutes holding up the hand raise sequence. shoved his respectful opponent twice (imagine the meltdown if desanto did this). disappointing to see that in a USA singlet.

like watching him wrestle. great footwork and positioning. interesting style of attack. elite reattacker. hate his persona. far from an isolated incident at this point.
 

nerfstate

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2017
8,935
22,298
1
pretty classless post match antics from starocci there. spent 2 minutes holding up the hand raise sequence. shoved his respectful opponent twice (imagine the meltdown if desanto did this). disappointing to see that in a USA singlet.

like watching him wrestle. great footwork and positioning. interesting style of attack. elite reattacker. hate his persona. far from an isolated incident at this point.
Wow, I didn’t get to see that when I watched, as I only saw the Flo logo at that point. It sounds like it’s something I can’t condone though. I can understand it a bit, given the mentality Carter seems to have, but you have to act with grace in defeat. Or maybe there is more to the story.
 

rmg78

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2017
798
1,473
1
pretty classless post match antics from starocci there. spent 2 minutes holding up the hand raise sequence. shoved his respectful opponent twice (imagine the meltdown if desanto did this). disappointing to see that in a USA singlet.

like watching him wrestle. great footwork and positioning. interesting style of attack. elite reattacker. hate his persona. far from an isolated incident at this point.
"Far from an isolated incident at this point" - I did not see the match or the "antics" you speak of but what other times has he behaved this way after a match?
 

a_mshaffer

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2014
3,014
2,037
1
Good point. I call BS since I also didn't see the end of the match and neither did anyone else unless you were there in person.
it is BS... you can watch the entire match replay on flo. He graciously shook hands right away. Just didn't want the ref holding his hand... no biggie here
 
  • Like
Reactions: NittanyChris

johnstownsteel

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
7,328
17,137
1
Johnstown Pa
pretty classless post match antics from starocci there. spent 2 minutes holding up the hand raise sequence. shoved his respectful opponent twice (imagine the meltdown if desanto did this). disappointing to see that in a USA singlet.

like watching him wrestle. great footwork and positioning. interesting style of attack. elite reattacker. hate his persona. far from an isolated incident at this point.
Didn’t see it. I guess PSU is lucky he doesn’t lose very often. :)
 

js8793

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,137
3,834
1
Good point. I call BS since I also didn't see the end of the match and neither did anyone else unless you were there in person.
starts at 7:50. opponent tries to pat him on the shoulder and he shoves him away. also made a scene by refusing to let the ref hold his hand which is the official procedure. was given an attention by the judge for this. then as they walk to the corner he shoves his opponent again. all this playing out over two minutes. not a spur of the moment burst of bad judgment, but an extended temper tantrum.


it is BS... you can watch the entire match replay on flo. He graciously shook hands right away. Just didn't want the ref holding his hand... no biggie here

no lol just no. if that was a hawkeye you would see it for what it was. you never shove your opponent like that after the match when they're trying to show you respect.

I’d like to know what other incidents there are

i'm referring to his consistent disrespect displayed towards opponents. before this, it was typically in interviews or social media posts. first example was him calling labriola unathletic. another was when he talked about how unimpressive burroughs and marstellar were. i think he had another during the michigan dual that he came off as a jerk in.

like i said. love his skillset. dislike his persona. very similar to gilman when he was a hawk except now i don't have to swallow my distaste and root for him (unless he's representing USA).
 

zzs006

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
1,255
2,830
1
starts at 7:50. opponent tries to pat him on the shoulder and he shoves him away. also made a scene by refusing to let the ref hold his hand which is the official procedure. was given an attention by the judge for this. then as they walk to the corner he shoves his opponent again. all this playing out over two minutes. not a spur of the moment burst of bad judgment, but an extended temper tantrum.




no lol just no. if that was a hawkeye you would see it for what it was. you never shove your opponent like that after the match when they're trying to show you respect.



i'm referring to his consistent disrespect displayed towards opponents. before this, it was typically in interviews or social media posts. first example was him calling labriola unathletic. another was when he talked about how unimpressive burroughs and marstellar were. i think he had another during the michigan dual that he came off as a jerk in.

like i said. love his skillset. dislike his persona. very similar to gilman when he was a hawk except now i don't have to swallow my distaste and root for him (unless he's representing USA).
I usually agree with you and just watched thinking it was going to be egregious but it’s not. Directly after the match it took about an extra 5 sec to get to center and then it was about another 5 seconds where he didn’t let the ref grab his hand. He shook his opponents hand immediately when coming to center. If this wasn’t Carter it wouldn’t even have been brought up but because he likes to talk and rubs people the wrong way here we are. Should he have showed a tiny bit more restraint, sure but it is not what you are saying either
 

NittanyChris

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2001
9,215
9,641
1
starts at 7:50. opponent tries to pat him on the shoulder and he shoves him away. also made a scene by refusing to let the ref hold his hand which is the official procedure. was given an attention by the judge for this. then as they walk to the corner he shoves his opponent again. all this playing out over two minutes. not a spur of the moment burst of bad judgment, but an extended temper tantrum.




no lol just no. if that was a hawkeye you would see it for what it was. you never shove your opponent like that after the match when they're trying to show you respect.



i'm referring to his consistent disrespect displayed towards opponents. before this, it was typically in interviews or social media posts. first example was him calling labriola unathletic. another was when he talked about how unimpressive burroughs and marstellar were. i think he had another during the michigan dual that he came off as a jerk in.

like i said. love his skillset. dislike his persona. very similar to gilman when he was a hawk except now i don't have to swallow my distaste and root for him (unless he's representing USA).
Boy are you reaching. Nice effort though, transparent as it is.
 

McScoreley

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2019
4,188
9,810
1
starts at 7:50. opponent tries to pat him on the shoulder and he shoves him away. also made a scene by refusing to let the ref hold his hand which is the official procedure. was given an attention by the judge for this. then as they walk to the corner he shoves his opponent again. all this playing out over two minutes. not a spur of the moment burst of bad judgment, but an extended temper tantrum.




no lol just no. if that was a hawkeye you would see it for what it was. you never shove your opponent like that after the match when they're trying to show you respect.



i'm referring to his consistent disrespect displayed towards opponents. before this, it was typically in interviews or social media posts. first example was him calling labriola unathletic. another was when he talked about how unimpressive burroughs and marstellar were. i think he had another during the michigan dual that he came off as a jerk in.

like i said. love his skillset. dislike his persona. very similar to gilman when he was a hawk except now i don't have to swallow my distaste and root for him (unless he's representing USA).
So it was just talking before which I suspected. Starocci can clearly take what he dishes. He even complimented your fans for how rude and crass they are to him as he leaves the mats at Carver and said he loves wrestling there. He enjoys that stuff. To him, wrestling is a war and friendly thoughts aren't the way to go if you want an edge. Call it classless all you want, it's working for him.

Also, he isn't getting humbled for anyone who is hoping. He said in his interview after Final X (when he got the forfeit), his mindset never changes with losses because as long as he puts in the work he does, he will never believe another man is better than him.
 

Petch

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2012
3,628
5,825
1
starts at 7:50. opponent tries to pat him on the shoulder and he shoves him away. also made a scene by refusing to let the ref hold his hand which is the official procedure. was given an attention by the judge for this. then as they walk to the corner he shoves his opponent again. all this playing out over two minutes. not a spur of the moment burst of bad judgment, but an extended temper tantrum.




no lol just no. if that was a hawkeye you would see it for what it was. you never shove your opponent like that after the match when they're trying to show you respect.



i'm referring to his consistent disrespect displayed towards opponents. before this, it was typically in interviews or social media posts. first example was him calling labriola unathletic. another was when he talked about how unimpressive burroughs and marstellar were. i think he had another during the michigan dual that he came off as a jerk in.

like i said. love his skillset. dislike his persona. very similar to gilman when he was a hawk except now i don't have to swallow my distaste and root for him (unless he's representing USA).
Just watched it. Wasn't nearly as dramatic as you portrayed. Yeah...he was upset and bummed, but he did shake hands twice, but didn't want consoling from the dude...similar to how a few guys reacted after getting stuck by Bo.

Do I wish he handled it a bit better...yep. But come to think of it...maybe Terry Brands could sit him down and talk with him, and explain how to lose with dignity. Whaddya think?