We obviously got the Big 10 JV officiating crew today.
- Thread starter Sullivan
- Start date
Refs were horrible. Bad calls both ways, but they cost PSU at least 10 points.
No sure where you are getting ten points from. The officiating was bad through out but the fact of the matter is the officials got us to overtime and we blew it.
First of all, go watch your team (the Pitt Panthers) get worked by Clemson.
Second of all, my math is as follows:
They incorrectly took a defensive score off the board (fumble recovered in endzone) = 7
They missed the late hit/roughing the passer against Illinois which would have given PSU a first down deep in Illinois territory. At least a FG there, maybe a TD.
So 10-14 points were taken away by the refs. But if even 3 points were taken away by the refs, it costs PSU the game. Refs were atrocious.
How the Eff did the official get "us" (you are not us) to overtime? You are delusional.
The refs got the so-called fumble recovery correct. This is not debatable. The video (real-time is absolutely conclusive). Yes they missed the hit on Clifford which cost us a FG attempt. Given the offense's performance they likely don't make it to the end zone but I'll give you 3. The refs absolutely shafted Illinois out of the winning TD in the fourth. The ball was caught behind the line of scrimmage which makes neither defensive penalty correct. They got us to OT. We couldn't close it out.
Fumble for TD, no whistle blew.
Illinois back moved before snap on their first OT score.
Cliff was hit late, no reason a flag isn’t thrown there especially everyone knowing he is injured.
But if Brisker high points a ball or Tyler Warren throws anything decent to Cliff none of it matters.
We allowed the referees bad calls to cost us. Period.
Illinois back moved before snap on their first OT score.
Cliff was hit late, no reason a flag isn’t thrown there especially everyone knowing he is injured.
But if Brisker high points a ball or Tyler Warren throws anything decent to Cliff none of it matters.
We allowed the referees bad calls to cost us. Period.
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The amount of holding by Illinois was astounding. I don’t think they got flagged once.
JV Posters want to always blame the refs. The refs should have never been in a position to make a difference. JV coaching should be the title.
PSU got called for holding on the play that Clifford got hit late that wasn't called. So would that be offsetting penalties?
The forward progress judgment call was shady at best. I'd expect to see that more from an NFL crew than a college one.
I thought the back moved as well on the Illinois score but there wasn't a good enough replay to take another look. They got the ineligible receiver/OPI right on the negated Illinois TD. The only noise about that was because of how long it took to make the call.
Refs weren't the issue today. They weren't great but if you want to lay this disaster at their feet, you may want to go watch something else...a nature documentary perhaps.
The forward progress judgment call was shady at best. I'd expect to see that more from an NFL crew than a college one.
I thought the back moved as well on the Illinois score but there wasn't a good enough replay to take another look. They got the ineligible receiver/OPI right on the negated Illinois TD. The only noise about that was because of how long it took to make the call.
Refs weren't the issue today. They weren't great but if you want to lay this disaster at their feet, you may want to go watch something else...a nature documentary perhaps.
Nope. I can assure you that much better crews did a better job at officiating lower level college games. We had a crew that wasn't up to the task.
Please. Don't tell me you are blaming that loss on the refs?
Not the issue. The refs were bad but the performance was much worse. Coaching was off the charts bad.
There are some posters here who always blame failures of our team on the officiating. Just know that bad officiating, like injuries, are part of the game. Good teams overcome these obstacles, bad teams allow them to dictate the outcomes.
It is what it is but to be honest and not trying to be disrespectful to Illinois, 10-14 points should not have even mattered in this game. PSU should have been able to score enough points that 10-14 points potentially cost on bad officiating should not have mattered or factored into the outcome of this game. Just my opinion.
I agree with this.
However, that amount of points did matter. And the refs (through their incompetence) influenced the outcome of the game.
The holding and late hit fouls would not offset. A late hit is a dead ball foul. If the late hit was called, the result is a net gain of 5 yards (-10 holding +15 late hit) and a first down for PSU.
What if it’s not a dead ball foul? I think this one was a normal live-ball roughing the passer. I should know this but I know the double foul enforcement gets a little muddy when one of the fouls is a 15-yarder.
The refs did not determine the outcome of the game. We did not play good enough to win. The coaching was awful.
Youre right, guess it wasn't after the play. I thought the personal foul type penalties always got treated separately regardless.
Ok. As I said above, I thought the personal foul type penalties were always enforced separately from the others. I didn't know live ball vs dead ball personal fouls were treated different.
Note that there are some differences between NCAA and NFL (though not on this play)…in the NFL, a 5 yard penalty is ignored if the other team commits a 15 yarder.
Can someone (maybe a former official?) walk me through what happened on the fumble recovery for a TD that was called back?
I did not hear a whistle blow indicating the play was over. Multiple referees acted as if the play was still live, including signaling touchdown for PSU. Did a referee actively "spot the ball" (indicating forward progress had stopped) without blowing his whistle? And no one noticed?
Or did they somehow talk about it afterwards and make this decision?
Because if it is the former, I guess that is simple human error (not blowing your whistle), from an officiating mechanics perspective anyway (I still think it was the wrong call).
If it is the latter...how can they do that? If forward progress was stopped, you have to decide that on the field in real time, not after the play, correct?
I'm still flabbergasted as to what happened there.
I did not hear a whistle blow indicating the play was over. Multiple referees acted as if the play was still live, including signaling touchdown for PSU. Did a referee actively "spot the ball" (indicating forward progress had stopped) without blowing his whistle? And no one noticed?
Or did they somehow talk about it afterwards and make this decision?
Because if it is the former, I guess that is simple human error (not blowing your whistle), from an officiating mechanics perspective anyway (I still think it was the wrong call).
If it is the latter...how can they do that? If forward progress was stopped, you have to decide that on the field in real time, not after the play, correct?
I'm still flabbergasted as to what happened there.
I was casually re-watching this morning and there wasn't a whistle. They said the call on the field was 'forward progress' and it's second down. That was that. Not reviewable. Makes zero sense.
That was after 45 seconds of trying to get guys off the pile to determine who had the ball. Very suspicious.
I had a really good view of it, as I was on the PSU side around the 5 yard line...the official along the line of scrimmage (think it was the LJ...it was whichever official was on the PSU side) came in with his hand raised signaling the forward progress stoppage immediately. But, play was continuing and none of the players or other officials recognized that he had blown the play dead. He wasn't leaving his location because he had the spot, and it took him a while to get anyone else's attention (he was blowing his whistle, but between the crown, fireworks, celebration, Referee announcing fumble/touchdown, no one realized what he was calling). I said right away to the guy next to me that this is coming back, but I don't think that many recognized what was happening (including the 6 other members of the crew).
And, with that call, it isn't reviewable.
Not sure what TV picked up on the play (and I deleted that debacle the minute I got home), but my dad told me that they never did show the LJ killing the play on any of the TV replays.
Still, I've never seen 'forward progress' called after about a half second of non-movement (and when the player hasn't yielded progress so to speak). Very quick with the call.
And very slow with the whistles the rest of the game. To the point where I was afraid guys were going to get hurt on both teams.
Unfortunately, I did just go back and rewatch the play...it looks like the Back Judge also did realize that the Line Judge had killed the play, as he comes in late blowing his whistle and was the one that finally got the Referee's attention to tell him what was happening.
Also, there were some earlier comments about the spot on the play being well off if they were killing the forward progress...the spot looked correct to me. Again, it was a very quick whistle (but once he blows it, the play is over and there isn't an option to ignore it unfortunately).
One other random officiating note...I hadn't realized that Lamont Simpson was a college football referee until I recognized him doing our game. He was the Side Judge on Saturday. He used to do a ton of Big Ten basketball games, but hadn't seen him much lately. Looks like the last Big Ten game he did was our game at the Palestra against Iowa in early 2020. He still did a handful of Horizon and MAC games the past few seasons, but he's really cut back on his basketball schedule.
They missed the 1st qtr DPI that ended in FG. DB ran into receiver AND wrapped his arm around the waist. He never looked back to play the ball.
They finally called the holding from behind to nullify a Illinois TD, but they were essentially horse collaring #12 Smith all day.
They finally called the holding from behind to nullify a Illinois TD, but they were essentially horse collaring #12 Smith all day.
Ah right...all part of the grand conspiracy to advance Illinois football of course!
