All About Recruiting

[Ian]

Hijacked from HR but so revealing. There is a huge gap that the Brands brothers hope to close with the coming of Lee, Teasdale, Young, Marinelli, etc...

A comparison of the Iowa with PSU squads that squared off on Friday night and the disparity of talent level when in HS.

The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on).
The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa
Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Carton >10 21
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Holloway 8 5

PSU
Suriano 1 1
Carpenter NR
Gulibon 1 1
Retherford 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutcheon 4 4
Nevills 1 1

 

[androcles]

...Iowa had 5 Seniors in their lineup vs 1 for Penn State...

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Hijacked from HR but so revealing. There is a huge gap that the Brands brothers hope to close with the coming of Lee, Teasdale, Young, Marinelli, etc...

A comparison of the Iowa with PSU squads that squared off on Friday night and the disparity of talent level when in HS.

The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on).
The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa
Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Carton >10 21
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Holloway 8 5

PSU
Suriano 1 1
Carpenter NR
Gulibon 1 1
Retherford 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutcheon 4 4
Nevills 1 1

Well one thing for sure, the Brands are hitting PA hard on the recruiting trail.....it's paid immediate dividends for them and the one thing that gives them real hope for the future.

 

[matter7172]

Yeah, except the data is presented very strangely. Iowa had the #1 recruiting classes in both 2010 and 2012 and has, basically, nothing to show for it. No individual champs, no team championships. Gilman, Clark, Carton, Meyer and Brooks were all from the #1 2012 class. And you can add Burak to that list. Shockingly, their recruiting has fallen off as their national championships have become a memory.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Hijacked from HR but so revealing. There is a huge gap that the Brands brothers hope to close with the coming of Lee, Teasdale, Young, Marinelli, etc...

A comparison of the Iowa with PSU squads that squared off on Friday night and the disparity of talent level when in HS.

The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on).
The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa
Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Carton >10 21
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Holloway 8 5

PSU
Suriano 1 1
Carpenter NR
Gulibon 1 1
Retherford 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutcheon 4 4
Nevills 1 1

So Gilman was ranked in top 20 overall, but 4th in his weight class? Could happen, but seems unusual. Who were the three guys ranked ahead of Gilman?

 

[Ian]

Grey, Meeks, and Richards were ranked ahead of him, I believe.

 

[Real-Lion]

Hijacked from HR but so revealing. There is a huge gap that the Brands brothers hope to close with the coming of Lee, Teasdale, Young, Marinelli, etc...

A comparison of the Iowa with PSU squads that squared off on Friday night and the disparity of talent level when in HS.

The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on).
The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa
Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Carton >10 21
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Holloway 8 5

PSU
Suriano 1 1
Carpenter NR
Gulibon 1 1
Retherford 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutcheon 4 4
Nevills 1 1

Iowa may not even get Teasdale anyway....

 

[nitlion6]

It will be 20 years from now Cael will have something like 21 championships out of the past 26 championships and on HR there will be 2 basic conversations.
1. Gable was better
2. Some sort of rationalization for Penn State's success.

Facts
1. Cael Sanderson has been successful in recruiting very talented wrestlers to Penn State.
2. Cael Sanderson has been very successful developing that talent into champions, individual and team wise.

 

[Azchief32]

Yeah, except the data is presented very strangely. Iowa had the #1 recruiting classes in both 2010 and 2012 and has, basically, nothing to show for it. No individual champs, no team championships. Gilman, Clark, Carton, Meyer and Brooks were all from the #1 2012 class. Shockingly, their recruiting has fallen off as their national championships have become a memory.

The data is the recruiting classes from 2013 on. It shows that a recruit from in the 1-10 decile has a much much better chance of having success almost immediately than does 11-20 and on. I was very surprised...many 11-20's were not even starters for their teams. Check out the first post in the thread.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/recruiting-by-the-numbers-2013-2015.177867/

Tom has had a total of four top ten's wrestle for him: Metcalf, Ramos, Evans, and Nate Moore. Until Cael at PSU, the equation worked for him. Get as many 11-50 guys as possible and develop them with maybe 1 or 2 studs. Problem was, Cael starting getting all top tens in a time when these guys are ready to come in and succeed right away. 2010-2012 top tens kind of stunk...A total of 6 titles in three years...4 coming from Streibler. But from 2013 and on, they are pretty awesome...lots of AAs in their first one or two seasons. 2013 alone has a total of six titles. So having a "#1" class in 2010 and 2012 was like winning a free meatloaf dinner...you are going to eat and get full, but it's not going to be that tasty.

If anything, Iowa's recruiting has gotten better because of the change in Tom's philosophy because of the losing:

Lee 1:1
Warner 1:1
Marinelli 1:2
Kemerer 1:2
Teasdale 1:1
Young 3:3
Murin Top50

 

[Ian]

Great post AZ. Iowa has to up its game as we need them to maintain their status. If wrestling is going to survive, the B1G has got to prosper along with other schools uping their game. ACC, EIWA, and MAC are working hard. I wish the southern schools would get in on it along with out west.

 

[nitlion6]

The part about top 10's stinking and then all of a sudden top10s showing up at Penn State and being successful should put to rest the development non sense.

 

[matter7172]

The data is the recruiting classes from 2013 on. It shows that a recruit from in the 1-10 decile has a much much better chance of having success almost immediately than does 11-20 and on. I was very surprised...many 11-20's were not even starters for their teams. Check out the first post in the thread.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/recruiting-by-the-numbers-2013-2015.177867/

Tom has had a total of four top ten's wrestle for him: Metcalf, Ramos, Evans, and Nate Moore. Until Cael at PSU, the equation worked for him. Get as many 11-50 guys as possible and develop them with maybe 1 or 2 studs. Problem was, Cael starting getting all top tens in a time when these guys are ready to come in and succeed right away. 2010-2012 top tens kind of stunk...A total of 6 titles in three years...4 coming from Streibler. But from 2013 and on, they are pretty awesome...lots of AAs in their first one or two seasons. 2013 alone has a total of six titles. So having a "#1" class in 2010 and 2012 was like winning a free meatloaf dinner...you are going to eat and get full, but it's not going to be that tasty.

If anything, Iowa's recruiting has gotten better because of the change in Tom's philosophy because of the losing:

Lee 1:1
Warner 1:1
Marinelli 1:2
Kemerer 1:2
Teasdale 1:1
Young 3:3
Murin Top50

Stop with the straw men. Brands hasn't won anything since he came over from Virginia Tech with half their team, adding it to a pretty strong returning cast at Iowa, and that true "double recruiting class".

I've never seen such mental gymnastics to avoid the simple truth anywhere in any sport. Even two #1 recruiting classes in three years wasn't enough. The 2012 class had 4 top 20 guys plus Nathan Burak - that isn't exactly chopped liver.

We'll see if Brands can manage championships with his "change in philosophy" which seems to be doing more recruiting in PA. Of course, one has to wonder if you can give him credit for the success or have to give the credit to the state of PA high school wrestling.

 

[JOESTROSSER]

A couple of things that are really important that get lost in breaking things down this way is where a kid is ranked overall in their class, how well a school recruited the weight in recent years and how they can stagger the money(usually a factor of the other 2). If a team gets the #1 125lber in 2017, but they are the 25th ranked recruit in 2017, the kid ranked 4th at 125 in 2018, but 10th in 2018 might be superior. Just so many factors.

 

[Ian]

PSU has had some misses, too. In fact, I think that is why Cael has gone more national lately because of the Pa. big names that haven't panned out. Only half of this years starters are Pa bred. Next years big name arrivals are all outside of Pa., I believe.

 

[Azchief32]

Stop with the straw men. Brands hasn't won anything since he came over from Virginia Tech with half their team, adding it to a pretty strong returning cast at Iowa, and that true "double recruiting class".

Lol...seriously obtuse. An argument that one does better with 9 #1 guys than a team compiled of top 50s is a strawman....You're a funny guy G.I. Using your logic, the only one that counts for Cael is 2016. Ruth and Kemerer were waiting with his brother, DT, Brown and Long (eventually)coming from ISU with AAs Molinaro and Q already at PSU. After all of those guys were gone except for Brown, PSU finished 6th...and then turn around and win it the next year.

I've never seen such mental gymnastics to avoid the simple truth anywhere in any sport. Even two #1 recruiting classes in three years wasn't enough. The 2012 class had 4 top 20 guys plus Nathan Burak - that isn't exactly chopped liver.

The 2012 class, out of the top 100, has exactly three NCAA titles...Gabe Dean and TShirt. The top 20 has had one from TShirt. Iowa had three top 20s, not four...Nate Skon (who left after a few months), Gilman and Brooks...so really only had two. Cory Clark was not a top 20. Guilbon was though...See for yourself and judge how good the classes of 2010 and 2012 were...it's not "mental gymnastic," it's proof:

1. Jason Tsirtsis Crown Point IN 141 Northwestern*
2. Taylor Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan
3. Jimmy Gulibon Derry PA 125 Penn State
4. Jordan Rogers Mead WA 184 Oklahoma State
5. John Meeks Des Moines IA 133 Iowa State
6. Alex Cisneros Selma CA 141 Cornell
7. Mark Grey Rockaway NJ 133 Cornell
8. Doug Vollaro Pine Castle FL 285 Lehigh
9. Nikko Reyes Clovis CA 184 Illinois
10. Devin Peterson Wisconsin Rapids WI 197 Iowa Western
11. Brian Realbuto Somers NY 149 Cornell
12. Joey Davis Santa Fe CA 165 Notre Dame (OH)
13. Zane Richards Carbondale IL 133 Illinois
14. Kyle Crutchmer Tulsa OK 174 Oklahoma State
15. Nate Skonieczny Akron OH 149 Iowa
16. Thomas Gilman Council Bluffs IA 133 Iowa
17. George DiCamillo Highland Heights OH 125 Virginia
18. Rossi Bruno Brandon FL 133 Michigan
19. Zac Brunson Eugene OR 174 Illinois
20. Sam Brooks Oak Park IL 197 Iowa

Here was 2010:

1. Ohio State Logan Stieber Monroeville Ohio 125****
2. Penn State Andrew Alton Lock Haven Pennsylvania 141/149
3. Cornell Chris Villalonga Totowa New Jersey 141
4. Iowa Mike Evans Enola Pennsylvania 184
5. Cornell Marshall Peppelman Harrisburg Pennsylvania 157/165
6. Northwestern Lee Munster Ingleside Illinois 184
7. Illinois Jackson Morse Lowell Michigan 157
8. Penn State Dylan Alton Lock Haven Pennsylvania 149/157
9. Binghamton Tyler Beckwith Greene New York 174/184
10. Oklahoma State Josh Kindig Auburn Pennsylvania 141/149
11. Iowa Nick Moore Iowa City Iowa 157
12. Iowa Josh Dziewa Yardley Pennsylvania 141
13. Virginia Nick Sulzer Cleveland Ohio 165
14. Northwestern Mike McMullan Easton Pennsylvania 285
15. Minnesota Dylan Ness Bloomington Minnesota 149
16. Iowa State Ryak Finch Safford Arizona 125
17. Nebraska Keith Surber O'Fallon Illinois 133
18. Lehigh Frank Cagnina Garfield New Jersey 133
19. Iowa Bobby Telford Wilmington Delaware 285
20. Minnesota Nick Dardanes Fenwick Illinois 141



We'll see if Brands can manage championships with his "change in philosophy" which seems to be doing more recruiting in PA. Of course, one has to wonder if you can give him credit for the success or have to give the credit to the state of PA high school wrestling.

I would definitely give a lot of credit to Jody for developing and having these guys ready to hit college. Tom Brands is a good coach but he looks mighty better when he is working with a top ten kid in Kemerer who is ranked #2 in his rs freshman year and looks like a good shot to get into the top 4 at NCAAs. Yea...PA, Ohio, and NJ is where it's at. 4/5 of our returning AAs are from Iowa but IA high school is in some down years now. Top 20 kids to come out in the last three years are Thomsen, Stroker, and Happel. Sorensen was not a top 20. So yea, Tom is looking for quality, not quantity now.

You guys still think this is a knock on Cael...Hell, should be a compliment because Brands is trying to copy him or at least mitigate the damage as much as possible. This should be common sense. BTW, according to SHP, team rankings are set up on a dual basis...not potential individual scorers at the tourney. For example, last year, NC State had the #1 class last year hauling in two top tens and host of others. Tell me you would give up Hall and Suriano for that whole class.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Stop with the straw men. Brands hasn't won anything since he came over from Virginia Tech with half their team, adding it to a pretty strong returning cast at Iowa, and that true "double recruiting class".

Lol...seriously obtuse. An argument that one does better with 9 #1 guys than a team compiled of top 50s is a strawman....You're a funny guy G.I. Using your logic, the only one that counts for Cael is 2016. Ruth and Kemerer were waiting with his brother, DT, Brown and Long (eventually)coming from ISU with AAs Molinaro and Q already at PSU. After all of those guys were gone except for Brown, PSU finished 6th...and then turn around and win it the next year.

I've never seen such mental gymnastics to avoid the simple truth anywhere in any sport. Even two #1 recruiting classes in three years wasn't enough. The 2012 class had 4 top 20 guys plus Nathan Burak - that isn't exactly chopped liver.

The 2012 class, out of the top 100, has exactly three NCAA titles...Gabe Dean and TShirt. The top 20 has had one from TShirt. Iowa had three top 20s, not four...Nate Skon (who left after a few months), Gilman and Brooks...so really only had two. Cory Clark was not a top 20. Guilbon was though...See for yourself and judge how good the classes of 2010 and 2012 were...it's not "mental gymnastic," it's proof:

1. Jason Tsirtsis Crown Point IN 141 Northwestern*
2. Taylor Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan
3. Jimmy Gulibon Derry PA 125 Penn State
4. Jordan Rogers Mead WA 184 Oklahoma State
5. John Meeks Des Moines IA 133 Iowa State
6. Alex Cisneros Selma CA 141 Cornell
7. Mark Grey Rockaway NJ 133 Cornell
8. Doug Vollaro Pine Castle FL 285 Lehigh
9. Nikko Reyes Clovis CA 184 Illinois
10. Devin Peterson Wisconsin Rapids WI 197 Iowa Western
11. Brian Realbuto Somers NY 149 Cornell
12. Joey Davis Santa Fe CA 165 Notre Dame (OH)
13. Zane Richards Carbondale IL 133 Illinois
14. Kyle Crutchmer Tulsa OK 174 Oklahoma State
15. Nate Skonieczny Akron OH 149 Iowa
16. Thomas Gilman Council Bluffs IA 133 Iowa
17. George DiCamillo Highland Heights OH 125 Virginia
18. Rossi Bruno Brandon FL 133 Michigan
19. Zac Brunson Eugene OR 174 Illinois
20. Sam Brooks Oak Park IL 197 Iowa

Here was 2010:

1. Ohio State Logan Stieber Monroeville Ohio 125****
2. Penn State Andrew Alton Lock Haven Pennsylvania 141/149
3. Cornell Chris Villalonga Totowa New Jersey 141
4. Iowa Mike Evans Enola Pennsylvania 184
5. Cornell Marshall Peppelman Harrisburg Pennsylvania 157/165
6. Northwestern Lee Munster Ingleside Illinois 184
7. Illinois Jackson Morse Lowell Michigan 157
8. Penn State Dylan Alton Lock Haven Pennsylvania 149/157
9. Binghamton Tyler Beckwith Greene New York 174/184
10. Oklahoma State Josh Kindig Auburn Pennsylvania 141/149
11. Iowa Nick Moore Iowa City Iowa 157
12. Iowa Josh Dziewa Yardley Pennsylvania 141
13. Virginia Nick Sulzer Cleveland Ohio 165
14. Northwestern Mike McMullan Easton Pennsylvania 285
15. Minnesota Dylan Ness Bloomington Minnesota 149
16. Iowa State Ryak Finch Safford Arizona 125
17. Nebraska Keith Surber O'Fallon Illinois 133
18. Lehigh Frank Cagnina Garfield New Jersey 133
19. Iowa Bobby Telford Wilmington Delaware 285
20. Minnesota Nick Dardanes Fenwick Illinois 141



We'll see if Brands can manage championships with his "change in philosophy" which seems to be doing more recruiting in PA. Of course, one has to wonder if you can give him credit for the success or have to give the credit to the state of PA high school wrestling.

I would definitely give a lot of credit to Jody for developing and having these guys ready to hit college. Tom Brands is a good coach but he looks mighty better when he is working with a top ten kid in Kemerer who is ranked #2 in his rs freshman year and looks like a good shot to get into the top 4 at NCAAs. Yea...PA, Ohio, and NJ is where it's at. 4/5 of our returning AAs are from Iowa but IA high school is in some down years now. Top 20 kids to come out in the last three years are Thomsen, Stroker, and Happel. Sorensen was not a top 20. So yea, Tom is looking for quality, not quantity now.

You guys still think this is a knock on Cael...Hell, should be a compliment because Brands is trying to copy him or at least mitigate the damage as much as possible. This should be common sense. BTW, according to SHP, team rankings are set up on a dual basis...not potential individual scorers at the tourney. For example, last year, NC State had the #1 class last year hauling in two top tens and host of others. Tell me you would give up Hall and Suriano for that whole class.

I need to buy you a couple of drinks after that post Chief... that's a lot of info to absorb

 

[James P. Whitters III]

The biggest problem for Iowa is top end guys often like to wrestle a more open style. Underhook and push or 2 on 1 and push are not that fun. Could you imagine Nolf or Bo wrestling "Iowa style". The very top kids simply don't match up with the program. Brands obviously knew this if he wasn't even recruiting top 10 kids. Maybe that offensive juggernaut Morning* can change that?

 

[cpn1sgm]

With Iowa losing 5 weight classes, who relaces those guys. I know Lee will be 125 and Maranelli 165. Who fills 133, 141 and 174. Thanks.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

happel,Turk,Young are a few of the names I expect to hear next year. Wagner or Laux also for 125 I'm guessing.

 

[mcruny42]

Lee
Warner
Marinelli
Kemerer
Teasdale
Young

That is a nice foundation, especially if Warner can be a top 2 or 3 guy as a RS So they could have 5 title threats but I am not sure its enough to overcome PSU (barring injuries) for next couple of years. Maybe after the 3 N's graduate they are back in the title hunt. PSU will still have Suriano, Hall and Joseph to go along with its stud recruits...

 

[Callthestall]

Speaking of High School talent. Bethlehem Catholic lost 2 matches yesterday to prep schools at the Flo Nationals. Blair dominated. It was noted that Penn State has not recruited within the state as much as it use to. I don't think Cael has landed a District 11 wrestler since Tim Darling.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Is it as good as VJ,Suriano,Hall,RBY,TW,MM,NL,Big Snacks as an 8 man wrecking crew. I think not. Hawks could fight right back into that #2 type team.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Iowa has finished behind a team other then PSU every year since 2010 and have finished 3rd or worse in 5 of those 6 years so all this talk about how they aren't winning championships because they are losing the recruiting war to Penn State isn't based in reality, especially considering how they had two #1 classes during that time period. It's amusing how this fact is being completely ignored over on HR as they fall all over each other thinking they are successfully explaining away their lack of success. It truly is fantasy land over there.

Also conveniently left out of this discussion is how about half of all top 10 recruits fail to AA even once yet Sanderson's track record is about 80% with a majority of those guys making the finals. Grim reality will set in when some of those top 10 recruits don't pan out like they hope.

Az, you forgot Billy Murphy in your list of Brands' top 10 recruits.

 

[El-Jefe]

A few factual errors above:

Kemerer was not waiting at PSU for Cael. He wanted to go to PSU, had PSU alum family, but was not recruited by Sunderland. He instead committed to Oklahoma. Then transferred to PSU when the previous coaches who didn't want him were gone. He never enrolled at OU. And, while he may have shirted during his true freshman year anyway, Spates forced it by refusing to sign the release until after the season had started.

Darling was at Kutztown before Cael arrived. Troy kicked him off the team.

There is a D11 wrestler on the roster right now (HWT Alex Nicholas), and there have been others (Rex Lutz off the top of my head). It's true that Cael has not landed a "highly sought after" D11 wrestler. Cael did host Racciato and Lizak for officials. In both cases, it's hard to say we lost. And there have been guys (allegedly) very interested in PSU but no room at the inn (Kindig vs. the Altons, etc.).

 

[Callthestall]

A few factual errors above:

Kemerer was not waiting at PSU for Cael. He wanted to go to PSU, had PSU alum family, but was not recruited by Sunderland. He instead committed to Oklahoma. Then transferred to PSU when the previous coaches who didn't want him were gone. He never enrolled at OU. And, while he may have shirted during his true freshman year anyway, Spates forced it by refusing to sign the release until after the season had started.

Darling was at Kutztown before Cael arrived. Troy kicked him off the team.

There is a D11 wrestler on the roster right now (HWT Alex Nicholas), and there have been others (Rex Lutz off the top of my head). It's true that Cael has not landed a "highly sought after" D11 wrestler. Cael did host Racciato and Lizak for officials. In both cases, it's hard to say we lost. And there have been guys (allegedly) very interested in PSU but no room at the inn (Kindig vs. the Altons, etc.).

I knew Darling wasn't recruited by Sanderson I just didn't word it correctly. I was trying to comment that Penn State has not landed a top District 11 wrestler since he's been at PSU. I would hope he make play for Chlebove, he's good.

 

[El-Jefe]

I knew Darling wasn't recruited by Sanderson I just didn't word it correctly. I was trying to comment that Penn State has not landed a top District 11 wrestler since he's been at PSU. I would hope he make play for Chlebove, he's good.

Chlebove is already committed to Arizona State.

 

[Ian]

Outstanding link for recruiting summaries and rewinds, which are very interesting.

http://www.d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Front.html

 

[dropster45]

We've been getting better recruits than Iowa as of late due to the fact that we "outdeveloped" the previous ones AND there are more wrestling parents who want their kids to grow up to be like Cael/Cody/Casey rather than Tom/Terry. We are very well funded to boot, which makes the infrastructure and resources available to the recruits second to none. But that's just what I see...

 

[matter7172]

Chief, the bottom line is Brands won nothing at VT. In two seasons at VT, Brands came in 42nd and 29th at NCAAs. VT has done better under Dresser (who walked into a truly bare cupboard) than it did under Brands. Maybe if Brands had stayed at VT, things might have gotten a lot better, but we'll never know.

You are aware of what Brands brought over from VT with him and it was a lot more than DT, Brown (certainly not an elite recruit under your rubric) and Long (who he didn't really bring with him anyway). Since Metcalf and his teammates who *really* came over with Brands from VT graduated Iowa, Brands has again won nothing except a share of the BIG title one year. This year, I believe based on the dual experience so far that even Iowa fans would be shocked to see Iowa win Nationals. It will be seven years, with one share of a BIG title to show for it. And stepping into Iowa when Brands did was a HUGE advantage - and frankly still is. The image of Iowa dominating college wrestling still persists, although one has to wonder for how long it will in the absence of actual domination.

To me, the obvious conclusion is:

Brands is just not that good as a head coach.

But you can keep working really hard to avoid the obvious. It's admirable.

 

[Ja1339]

Hijacked from HR but so revealing. There is a huge gap that the Brands brothers hope to close with the coming of Lee, Teasdale, Young, Marinelli, etc...

A comparison of the Iowa with PSU squads that squared off on Friday night and the disparity of talent level when in HS.

The first # is the decile (top 10 = 1, 11-20 = 2, and so on).
The second number is where the kid ranked in their HS weight class.

Iowa
Gilman 2 4
Clark 3 3
Carton >10 21
Sorenson 3 5
Kemerer 1 2
Gunther >10 23
Meyer 5 4
Brooks 2 2
Wilcke 9 11
Holloway 8 5

PSU
Suriano 1 1
Carpenter NR
Gulibon 1 1
Retherford 1 1
Nolf 1 1
Joseph 1 1
Hall 1 1
Nickal 1 1
McCutcheon 4 4
Nevills 1 1

Be interesting to see this list updated with Cortez and Stoll

 

[CholleyVandine]

So Gilman was ranked in top 20 overall, but 4th in his weight class? Could happen, but seems unusual. Who were the three guys ranked ahead of Gilman?

Gilman was 16th overall.

Nobody who ended up wrestling 125 in college was ranked ahead of him.

The other actual 125 pounders in that class included Tim Lambert (32nd), Eddie Klimara (34th) and Dom Malone (41st).

The D1CW rankings (which I believe are put together by a guy who does not spend a great deal of time scouting high school recruits ... I think they're more of a consensus of the rankings by Flo, Intermat and others) had Gilman projected as a college 133 pounder. He was fourth that year among projected 133 pounders.

 

[KidNittany]

To me, the obvious conclusion is:

Brands is just not that good as a head coach.

This one wins my vote for hyperbole of the year

 

[Callthestall]

Chlebove is already committed to Arizona State.

He's only a sophomore and announced last year he would go to Arizona State. That is obvious a connection between his Dad and Jones from their West Virginia days. A lot can happen in 3 years.

 

[Azchief32]

Be interesting to see this list updated with Cortez and Stoll

Cortez was a 2:1...was ranked 11 I think but still tops in his weight class. Still was like a 2:3 I believe

 

[bwfight]

I don't know Cael or Tom Brands personally, so my comment is based on opinions formed from watching and/or reading interviews they have done. A most recent example was provided immediately following the Penn State vs. Iowa match on 1/20. Cael came across as cool, calm, and collected, very much in control and radiating confidence during his interview. Tom Brands looked wild-eyed, frenetic, and on the verge of completely losing his composure. Albeit this was immediately following a difficult loss, but even during the OK State and many other matches compare his demeanor with that of Cael and his staff. Interestingly, Gilman seems to mirror many of the characteristics that Tom Brands displays, and even his interview following the match revealed the character of someone who is consumed totally by wrestling much as it appears to be the case of his mentor. Compare and contrast that with Cael's philosophy of wrestling simply being one aspect of the desire to maximize one's potential in life and how that is mirrored by so many of his proteges. In my opinion, that is the larger issue that has the greatest impact on the unparalleled success Cael has had not only in recruiting, but developing terrific young men. So when you look at the bigger picture, I don't see Tom Brands ever closing the gap on Cael. He will continue to attract and replicate mini me versions of himself like Thomas Gilman.

 

[matter7172]

This one wins my vote for hyperbole of the year

Ok. I was just doing shorthand for the Iowa folks. He is not as good as they think, because they think he is the best coach in college wrestling. He is also not as good a coach as Cael. Better?

 

[dropster45]

I don't know Cael or Tom Brands personally, so my comment is based on opinions formed from watching and/or reading interviews they have done. A most recent example was provided immediately following the Penn State vs. Iowa match on 1/20. Cael came across as cool, calm, and collected, very much in control and radiating confidence during his interview. Tom Brands looked wild-eyed, frenetic, and on the verge of completely losing his composure. Albeit this was immediately following a difficult loss, but even during the OK State and many other matches compare his demeanor with that of Cael and his staff. Interestingly, Gilman seems to mirror many of the characteristics that Tom Brands displays, and even his interview following the match revealed the character of someone who is consumed totally by wrestling much as it appears to be the case of his mentor. Compare and contrast that with Cael's philosophy of wrestling simply being one aspect of the desire to maximize one's potential in life and how that is mirrored by so many of his proteges. In my opinion, that is the larger issue that has the greatest impact on the unparalleled success Cael has had not only in recruiting, but developing terrific young men. So when you look at the bigger picture, I don't see Tom Brands ever closing the gap on Cael. He will continue to attract and replicate mini me versions of himself like Thomas Gilman.

So very well said! You hit the nail on the head precisely!

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I was banned from HR for more or less pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes. Brands is a very good coach, but he is not Cael Sanderson. Cael is smarter,younger,more talented, and yes I will say it- MORE FUN!

Guys win and lose at this sport all of the time. PSU guys tend to mirror the coach and so do Iowa guys. I believe more parents would rather see young men behave in the PSU manner when it comes to winning,losing, or simply giving an interview. Be thankful for the opportunity and appreciate your situation instead of focusing on being a killer out on a weekend pass.

 

[dropster45]

You forgot "more handsome"...

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I don't know Cael or Tom Brands personally, so my comment is based on opinions formed from watching and/or reading interviews they have done. A most recent example was provided immediately following the Penn State vs. Iowa match on 1/20. Cael came across as cool, calm, and collected, very much in control and radiating confidence during his interview. Tom Brands looked wild-eyed, frenetic, and on the verge of completely losing his composure. Albeit this was immediately following a difficult loss, but even during the OK State and many other matches compare his demeanor with that of Cael and his staff. Interestingly, Gilman seems to mirror many of the characteristics that Tom Brands displays, and even his interview following the match revealed the character of someone who is consumed totally by wrestling much as it appears to be the case of his mentor. Compare and contrast that with Cael's philosophy of wrestling simply being one aspect of the desire to maximize one's potential in life and how that is mirrored by so many of his proteges. In my opinion, that is the larger issue that has the greatest impact on the unparalleled success Cael has had not only in recruiting, but developing terrific young men. So when you look at the bigger picture, I don't see Tom Brands ever closing the gap on Cael. He will continue to attract and replicate mini me versions of himself like Thomas Gilman.

bwfight, meet Tom Brands.
Tom Brands, bwfight.