All About Recruiting

[El-Jefe]

I'm curious. Does anyone remember whether there were other PA studs during the Q, Ruth, Mega, Gulibon, Zain, Haines recruiting eras that went elsewhere and underperformed whereas our guys came to PSU and mostly performed?

D1CW goes back to 2010 ...

2010: 4 Evans, 12 Dziewa, 21 Shober, 45 Craig
2011: 12 Courts, 13 Hodgkins
2012: 43 Roberts
2013: 9 Black, 11 Wiercioch, 15 Morris, 22 Racciato
2014: 2 Marsteller, 19 Peppelman
2015: 30 Duggan

I could've listed more ... stopped after top 30 unless it was a big flame out. And a few of these guys could still right the ship.

 

[yekrut321]

Welcome to the board, "Just Another..."! You sound like I did when I first got on here - level headed and full of love!
And I know what you're saying...My own life is dictated by what are called "teenagers". To deal with that, I'm using the life skills I learned on the mat - perseverance, hope, and trying not to hit anyone with a baseball bat - so far, so good!

PS: Do you have the score from Iowa/PSU dual?

Lol!!! Dropster....what did you get into this morning? You're in your prime!

 

[WildTurk]

On the question of Terry (or Tom for that matter) going somewhere and building a program, essentially from scratch, I look to the Virginia Tech experience. That saw finishes of 42 and 29 at Nationals and bailing. So I don't see them taking on that kind of challenge again.

Foolish statement. Think maybe you left some information out here in order to make the Brands look bad. Not surprised

 

[jrd23psu]

The data is the recruiting classes from 2013 on. It shows that a recruit from in the 1-10 decile has a much much better chance of having success almost immediately than does 11-20 and on. I was very surprised...many 11-20's were not even starters for their teams. Check out the first post in the thread.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/recruiting-by-the-numbers-2013-2015.177867/

Tom has had a total of four top ten's wrestle for him: Metcalf, Ramos, Evans, and Nate Moore. Until Cael at PSU, the equation worked for him. Get as many 11-50 guys as possible and develop them with maybe 1 or 2 studs. Problem was, Cael starting getting all top tens in a time when these guys are ready to come in and succeed right away. 2010-2012 top tens kind of stunk...A total of 6 titles in three years...4 coming from Streibler. But from 2013 and on, they are pretty awesome...lots of AAs in their first one or two seasons. 2013 alone has a total of six titles. So having a "#1" class in 2010 and 2012 was like winning a free meatloaf dinner...you are going to eat and get full, but it's not going to be that tasty.

If anything, Iowa's recruiting has gotten better because of the change in Tom's philosophy because of the losing:

Lee 1:1
Warner 1:1
Marinelli 1:2
Kemerer 1:2
Teasdale 1:1
Young 3:3
Murin Top50

I can't take you seriously after reading this. I like meatloaf. :/

 

[jtothemfp]

Man....I feel like watching Conan the Barbarian now!!!!

Well, we did recently hear the lamentations of our women...

 

[a_mshaffer]

From a recruiting standpoint, it has to be an up hill job for other coaches. When you have Cael who, in most occasions, gets the guys he wants. You are left with about ten others coaches, fighting for the guys that Cael did not have room for. Other coaches will get elite guys, like Lee, but it's a very tall task to get five of them, to level the playing field with Cael.

well he forgot to order our slushfund mgr to make a job for Mr Lee at PSU or a nearby higher learning institution!

 

[burnsie1983]

Stop with the straw men. Brands hasn't won anything since he came over from Virginia Tech with half their team, adding it to a pretty strong returning cast at Iowa, and that true "double recruiting class".

Lol...seriously obtuse. An argument that one does better with 9 #1 guys than a team compiled of top 50s is a strawman....You're a funny guy G.I. Using your logic, the only one that counts for Cael is 2016. Ruth and Kemerer were waiting with his brother, DT, Brown and Long (eventually)coming from ISU with AAs Molinaro and Q already at PSU. After all of those guys were gone except for Brown, PSU finished 6th...and then turn around and win it the next year.

I've never seen such mental gymnastics to avoid the simple truth anywhere in any sport. Even two #1 recruiting classes in three years wasn't enough. The 2012 class had 4 top 20 guys plus Nathan Burak - that isn't exactly chopped liver.

The 2012 class, out of the top 100, has exactly three NCAA titles...Gabe Dean and TShirt. The top 20 has had one from TShirt. Iowa had three top 20s, not four...Nate Skon (who left after a few months), Gilman and Brooks...so really only had two. Cory Clark was not a top 20. Guilbon was though...See for yourself and judge how good the classes of 2010 and 2012 were...it's not "mental gymnastic," it's proof:

1. Jason Tsirtsis Crown Point IN 141 Northwestern*
2. Taylor Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan
3. Jimmy Gulibon Derry PA 125 Penn State
4. Jordan Rogers Mead WA 184 Oklahoma State
5. John Meeks Des Moines IA 133 Iowa State
6. Alex Cisneros Selma CA 141 Cornell
7. Mark Grey Rockaway NJ 133 Cornell
8. Doug Vollaro Pine Castle FL 285 Lehigh
9. Nikko Reyes Clovis CA 184 Illinois
10. Devin Peterson Wisconsin Rapids WI 197 Iowa Western
11. Brian Realbuto Somers NY 149 Cornell
12. Joey Davis Santa Fe CA 165 Notre Dame (OH)
13. Zane Richards Carbondale IL 133 Illinois
14. Kyle Crutchmer Tulsa OK 174 Oklahoma State
15. Nate Skonieczny Akron OH 149 Iowa
16. Thomas Gilman Council Bluffs IA 133 Iowa
17. George DiCamillo Highland Heights OH 125 Virginia
18. Rossi Bruno Brandon FL 133 Michigan
19. Zac Brunson Eugene OR 174 Illinois
20. Sam Brooks Oak Park IL 197 Iowa

Here was 2010:

1. Ohio State Logan Stieber Monroeville Ohio 125****
2. Penn State Andrew Alton Lock Haven Pennsylvania 141/149
3. Cornell Chris Villalonga Totowa New Jersey 141
4. Iowa Mike Evans Enola Pennsylvania 184
5. Cornell Marshall Peppelman Harrisburg Pennsylvania 157/165
6. Northwestern Lee Munster Ingleside Illinois 184
7. Illinois Jackson Morse Lowell Michigan 157
8. Penn State Dylan Alton Lock Haven Pennsylvania 149/157
9. Binghamton Tyler Beckwith Greene New York 174/184
10. Oklahoma State Josh Kindig Auburn Pennsylvania 141/149
11. Iowa Nick Moore Iowa City Iowa 157
12. Iowa Josh Dziewa Yardley Pennsylvania 141
13. Virginia Nick Sulzer Cleveland Ohio 165
14. Northwestern Mike McMullan Easton Pennsylvania 285
15. Minnesota Dylan Ness Bloomington Minnesota 149
16. Iowa State Ryak Finch Safford Arizona 125
17. Nebraska Keith Surber O'Fallon Illinois 133
18. Lehigh Frank Cagnina Garfield New Jersey 133
19. Iowa Bobby Telford Wilmington Delaware 285
20. Minnesota Nick Dardanes Fenwick Illinois 141



We'll see if Brands can manage championships with his "change in philosophy" which seems to be doing more recruiting in PA. Of course, one has to wonder if you can give him credit for the success or have to give the credit to the state of PA high school wrestling.

I would definitely give a lot of credit to Jody for developing and having these guys ready to hit college. Tom Brands is a good coach but he looks mighty better when he is working with a top ten kid in Kemerer who is ranked #2 in his rs freshman year and looks like a good shot to get into the top 4 at NCAAs. Yea...PA, Ohio, and NJ is where it's at. 4/5 of our returning AAs are from Iowa but IA high school is in some down years now. Top 20 kids to come out in the last three years are Thomsen, Stroker, and Happel. Sorensen was not a top 20. So yea, Tom is looking for quality, not quantity now.

You guys still think this is a knock on Cael...Hell, should be a compliment because Brands is trying to copy him or at least mitigate the damage as much as possible. This should be common sense. BTW, according to SHP, team rankings are set up on a dual basis...not potential individual scorers at the tourney. For example, last year, NC State had the #1 class last year hauling in two top tens and host of others. Tell me you would give up Hall and Suriano for that whole class.

Man, way to put all that extra free time to use!

 

[Brian LB-U]

Iowa high school wrestling taking a nosedive nationally has really hurt Iowa,ISU, and UNI. I have no idea how to help this problem, but it isn't good.

Is there any empirical evidence supporting the theory Iowa HS wrestling has taken a nosedive or is it more a case of not keeping up with the other top states? If yes, that is terribly unfortunate, and I wonder if this can be attributed in part to Dan Gable's fading glory (Dan was out of coaching before today's Iowa high schoolers were even born)? What are the leading factors?

Cael has repeatedly stated how much better prepared today's recruits are than they were even 10 years ago, and many attribute this to the club wrestling scene and year-around training/competing. Does the state of Iowa offer these opportunities to youth wrestlers?

 

[matter7172]

Foolish statement. Think maybe you left some information out here in order to make the Brands look bad. Not surprised

I don't think I left out information. Those are the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brands

They didn't stay at VT to complete the project. They left to take over an Iowa program that was not floundering anywhere near to the extent Penn State was when Cael took over. The only team PSU beat after the Nationals Duals in 2009 was Michigan State. Ponder that a while. Michigan State. That was it.

 

[Mpchillin]

I don't think I left out information. Those are the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brands

They didn't stay at VT to complete the project. They left to take over an Iowa program that was not floundering anywhere near to the extent Penn State was when Cael took over. The only team PSU beat after the Nationals Duals in 2009 was Michigan State. Ponder that a while. Michigan State. That was it.

Are you saying they bailed because they weren't improving? I'm confused because 42nd to 29th is improvement and there's no reason to think that it wouldn't have continued. Just looking at what the transfers did at Iowa their first year, if they had stayed at VT then it would have been a top 10 team finish for VT. So, yeah, you left out that information. You also seem to not remember that in 2008 PSU was 3rd. Iowa may not have been floundering as bad as PSU but the rebuilding process wasn't overwhelming.

 

[Azchief32]

I don't think I left out information. Those are the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brands

They didn't stay at VT to complete the project. They left to take over an Iowa program that was not floundering anywhere near to the extent Penn State was when Cael took over. The only team PSU beat after the Nationals Duals in 2009 was Michigan State. Ponder that a while. Michigan State. That was it.

PSU placed third at the 2008 NCAAs and Cael was left with three AA's in Q, Frank, and Bubba plus his brother Cyler (who ended as 2010 AA) after the 2009 season. Iowa was left with three AA's as well when Tom took over. His guys from VT were not allowed to wrestle in 2007. Iowa finished 8th in Tom's first season at Iowa. PSU finished 9th in Cael's first season in 2010. Iowa had three AA's in 2007, PSU had three AA's in 2010. Iowa finished 6th in the B1G in 2006, PSU finished 7th in the B1G in 2009. The only real tangible difference is that Penn State had a bad NCAA tourney with Bubba going 0-2. His only loss was Metcalf at B1Gs before that I believe.

Tom left V. Tech to go home to his dream job at Iowa. VT was a project that barely got started. He made no bones to anybody who listened that Iowa was always his dream job. I imagine that after placing 6th at the B1Gs, Iowa admin started to look. Cael left his alma mater and a team that was 2nd (2007), 5th (2008), 3rd (2009) and three straight Big 12 titles at ISU in his tenure with an NCAA champ and some other studs coming back.

 

[burnsie1983]

I'd love it if this thread somehow morphed into a thread that contained relevant recruiting tidbits about current and future prospects....crazy, I know.

 

[slushhead]

This "my coach is better than your coach" stuff never seems to go away (and yes, I am aware that I have the option of just looking away)...

But seriously, why perseverate on it? Of course BWI likes Sanderson better. Of course HR likes Brands better. Each group will pick the detail that supports its case best. And some individuals will just invent new (fictitious) criteria to try to make a case.

They are both great, successful coaches. Which active coaches have had better careers? Throw these guys on a list with Smith and JRob, and that's pretty much your upper tier (I'm still counting JRob because he only just became inactive). Ryan is trying to get on that list. No one else has a chance for the foreseeable future.

Brands had the upper hand for awhile, and Sanderson has it now. Both are fierce competitors, and this competition isn't over. As if the battles between PSU, Iowa, OSU, and tOSU aren't already extremely interesting, there is more coming down the pike. Don't assume the upper hand will remain the same indefinitely.

 

[burnsie1983]

This "my coach is better than your coach" stuff never seems to go away (and yes, I am aware that I have the option of just looking away)...

But seriously, why perseverate on it? Of course BWI likes Sanderson better. Of course HR likes Brands better. Each group will pick the detail that supports its case best. And some individuals will just invent new (fictitious) criteria to try to make a case.

They are both great, successful coaches. Which active coaches have had better careers? Throw these guys on a list with Smith and JRob, and that's pretty much your upper tier (I'm still counting JRob because he only just became inactive). Ryan is trying to get on that list. No one else has a chance for the foreseeable future.

Brands had the upper hand for awhile, and Sanderson has it now. Both are fierce competitors, and this competition isn't over. As if the battles between PSU, Iowa, OSU, and tOSU aren't already extremely interesting, there is more coming down the pike. Don't assume the upper hand will remain the same indefinitely.

Did you hear about that one guy, from that one place, who was saying good things about that one school? No, me neither.

 

[Azchief32]

This "my coach is better than your coach" stuff never seems to go away (and yes, I am aware that I have the option of just looking away)...

But seriously, why perseverate on it? Of course BWI likes Sanderson better. Of course HR likes Brands better. Each group will pick the detail that supports its case best. And some individuals will just invent new (fictitious) criteria to try to make a case.

They are both great, successful coaches. Which active coaches have had better careers? Throw these guys on a list with Smith and JRob, and that's pretty much your upper tier (I'm still counting JRob because he only just became inactive). Ryan is trying to get on that list. No one else has a chance for the foreseeable future.

Brands had the upper hand for awhile, and Sanderson has it now. Both are fierce competitors, and this competition isn't over. As if the battles between PSU, Iowa, OSU, and tOSU aren't already extremely interesting, there is more coming down the pike. Don't assume the upper hand will remain the same indefinitely.

That wasn't my purpose...just saw some egregious information that needed a reply to.

 

[jammenz]

To be fair, several guys over there do use it to knock on Cael, and that includes some Minnesota guy that's a Husker fan or vice versa, that, for some reason, you guys keep around.

I've never knocked Cael. I always say that he is the best recruiter in the history of college wrestling.

 

[dropster45]

I've never knocked Cael. I always say that he is the best recruiter in the history of college wrestling.

And that's because he has proven able to develop wrestlers like none other. You're right - the best wrestlers will flock to that. And now, a quick review of the 5 stages of grief brought to you by BWI:

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

 

[El-Jefe]

I've never knocked Cael. I always say that he is the best recruiter in the history of college wrestling.

What Willie said.

 

[Dogwelder]

D1CW goes back to 2010 ...

2010: 4 Evans, 12 Dziewa, 21 Shober, 45 Craig
2011: 12 Courts, 13 Hodgkins
2012: 43 Roberts
2013: 9 Black, 11 Wiercioch, 15 Morris, 22 Racciato
2014: 2 Marsteller, [9 Haines,] 19 Peppelman
2015: 30 Duggan

I could've listed more ... stopped after top 30 unless it was a big flame out. And a few of these guys could still right the ship.

Great work, El Jefe. Thank you very much!

I guess we cannot easily compare Cael's top-10 PA high schoolers versus anyone else's top-10 PA high schoolers because Cael is the only one who has sample size. Thank you for reminding me about D1CW. One day, I'm going to want to make some tables/numbers for the 60 top-10 wrestlers across the classes of 2010 to 2015, to see if any patterns jump out. Clearly, Cael's conversion rate will be very high. (I might never get to it, though.)

 

[nitlion6]

This "my coach is better than your coach" stuff never seems to go away (and yes, I am aware that I have the option of just looking away)...

But seriously, why perseverate on it? Of course BWI likes Sanderson better. Of course HR likes Brands better. Each group will pick the detail that supports its case best. And some individuals will just invent new (fictitious) criteria to try to make a case.

They are both great, successful coaches. Which active coaches have had better careers? Throw these guys on a list with Smith and JRob, and that's pretty much your upper tier (I'm still counting JRob because he only just became inactive). Ryan is trying to get on that list. No one else has a chance for the foreseeable future.

Brands had the upper hand for awhile, and Sanderson has it now. Both are fierce competitors, and this competition isn't over. As if the battles between PSU, Iowa, OSU, and tOSU aren't already extremely interesting, there is more coming down the pike. Don't assume the upper hand will remain the same indefinitely.

Ever since Cael and Tommy started competing against each other in the same conference Cael has been by far the more successful coach. So my coach is better.
Na na. Na na.

 

[slushhead]

That wasn't my purpose...just saw some egregious information that needed a reply to.

Trust me, calling you out wasn't my purpose. I know full well you don't start this...ummm..."stuff". The timing of my post had everything to do with a long day and not having read through the thread until eating a late dinner. Had a long car ride, too. Only the average official and the flu were missing. That, and jtothemfp to remind me of how crotchety I can be.

I'm all for the correction of egregious information, egregious misinformation, and egregiously incomplete information. Fact. Deal with it. Debate over.

 

[NoVa Lion]

PSU placed third at the 2008 NCAAs and Cael was left with three AA's in Q, Frank, and Bubba plus his brother Cyler (who ended as 2010 AA) after the 2009 season. Iowa was left with three AA's as well when Tom took over. His guys from VT were not allowed to wrestle in 2007. Iowa finished 8th in Tom's first season at Iowa. PSU finished 9th in Cael's first season in 2010. Iowa had three AA's in 2007, PSU had three AA's in 2010. Iowa finished 6th in the B1G in 2006, PSU finished 7th in the B1G in 2009. The only real tangible difference is that Penn State had a bad NCAA tourney with Bubba going 0-2. His only loss was Metcalf at B1Gs before that I believe.

Tom left V. Tech to go home to his dream job at Iowa. VT was a project that barely got started. He made no bones to anybody who listened that Iowa was always his dream job. I imagine that after placing 6th at the B1Gs, Iowa admin started to look. Cael left his alma mater and a team that was 2nd (2007), 5th (2008), 3rd (2009) and three straight Big 12 titles at ISU in his tenure with an NCAA champ and some other studs coming back.

Have to correct the egregious misinformation. Bubba went 0-2 at the 2009 NCAAs, the year before Cael. Bubba never wrestled as the starter for Cael in any dual or tournament. He purposely made himself academically ineligible for the first semester of the 2009-10 season and then got kicked off the team all of which got Bubba the redshirt year he wanted.

 

[Callthestall]

I think a great PA high school wrestler with his head on straight and baring injuries will typically have a good college career if he attends a top 5 college program. The workout room in practice most likely will be good, along with the coaching. Oliver would have won wherever he went if it was top 5 program. A guy like Peppelman wasn't going to have the same opportunity to succeed but chose the education.

 

[matter7172]

Are you saying they bailed because they weren't improving? I'm confused because 42nd to 29th is improvement and there's no reason to think that it wouldn't have continued. Just looking at what the transfers did at Iowa their first year, if they had stayed at VT then it would have been a top 10 team finish for VT. So, yeah, you left out that information. You also seem to not remember that in 2008 PSU was 3rd. Iowa may not have been floundering as bad as PSU but the rebuilding process wasn't overwhelming.

Yep. The transfers helped Iowa win three titles. Since the transfers left the program, Iowa has won zero titles. Everything else is speculation. "If they had stayed ..." is clearly speculation. It's not information. How Penn State did in 2008 isn't even relevant (was Cael going to bring back Phil Davis and Mark McKnight?).

I don't know if anyone fully grasps how bad things had gotten at Penn State in 2009 - even Penn State fans. 15 duals - four wins (Lock Haven, Missouri, Michigan - who they later were waxed by - and Michigan State). They didn't even beat Purdue and Indiana.

If anyone wants to be fair and honest, take a look at two names on the roster Cael inherited - Frank Molinaro and Bryan Pearsall (not to mention James English). Look at their career progression and then tell me Cael can't coach. Look at Jordan Conaway. It's enough already.

PSU placed third at the 2008 NCAAs and Cael was left with three AA's in Q, Frank, and Bubba plus his brother Cyler (who ended as 2010 AA) after the 2009 season. Iowa was left with three AA's as well when Tom took over. His guys from VT were not allowed to wrestle in 2007. Iowa finished 8th in Tom's first season at Iowa. PSU finished 9th in Cael's first season in 2010. Iowa had three AA's in 2007, PSU had three AA's in 2010. Iowa finished 6th in the B1G in 2006, PSU finished 7th in the B1G in 2009. The only real tangible difference is that Penn State had a bad NCAA tourney with Bubba going 0-2. His only loss was Metcalf at B1Gs before that I believe.

Tom left V. Tech to go home to his dream job at Iowa. VT was a project that barely got started. He made no bones to anybody who listened that Iowa was always his dream job. I imagine that after placing 6th at the B1Gs, Iowa admin started to look. Cael left his alma mater and a team that was 2nd (2007), 5th (2008), 3rd (2009) and three straight Big 12 titles at ISU in his tenure with an NCAA champ and some other studs coming back.

Exactly. Tom left VT to go to a program that was in much better shape than VT. Cael left an ISU program that was in much better shape than Penn State. Which coach was taking on a bigger challenge? I will say that taking the Iowa job is something like taking the UCLA job in basketball - it's hard to measure up to what Gable and Wooden accomplished. So in that respect, Iowa is a challenge of a different sort.

Really, Brands isn't a bad coach at all but the endless rehashing of "numbers" by people on HR to "prove" that Cael isn't a good coach (or not as good as Brands) is becoming really tiresome - because, if you are going to be honest, that is the point of the exercise. First it was Cael will never beat Iowa, then it was Cael isn't going to win a Big Ten title, then it was Cael isn't going to win a NCAA title - now that Cael has done all those things and more, it's only because Cael gets better recruits.

Sitting there like Captain Queeg proving your point with a load of minutiae doesn't really prove anything - well, except that you won't give full credit to the guy who is proving he is the best coach in college wrestling today by getting the results.

 

[slushhead]

Seems to me like HR is the most appropriate place to argue with perceived objectionable content on HR. Not sure why the stuff is being brought over here if the beef isn't with BWI content.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Yep. The transfers helped Iowa win three titles. Since the transfers left the program, Iowa has won zero titles. Everything else is speculation. "If they had stayed ..." is clearly speculation. It's not information. How Penn State did in 2008 isn't even relevant (was Cael going to bring back Phil Davis and Mark McKnight?).

I don't know if anyone fully grasps how bad things had gotten at Penn State in 2009 - even Penn State fans. 15 duals - four wins (Lock Haven, Missouri, Michigan - who they later were waxed by - and Michigan State). They didn't even beat Purdue and Indiana.

If anyone wants to be fair and honest, take a look at two names on the roster Cael inherited - Frank Molinaro and Bryan Pearsall (not to mention James English). Look at their career progression and then tell me Cael can't coach. Look at Jordan Conaway. It's enough already.

Exactly. Tom left VT to go to a program that was in much better shape than VT. Cael left an ISU program that was in much better shape than Penn State. Which coach was taking on a bigger challenge? I will say that taking the Iowa job is something like taking the UCLA job in basketball - it's hard to measure up to what Gable and Wooden accomplished. So in that respect, Iowa is a challenge of a different sort.

Really, Brands isn't a bad coach at all but the endless rehashing of "numbers" by people on HR to "prove" that Cael isn't a good coach (or not as good as Brands) is becoming really tiresome - because, if you are going to be honest, that is the point of the exercise. First it was Cael will never beat Iowa, then it was Cael isn't going to win a Big Ten title, then it was Cael isn't going to win a NCAA title - now that Cael has done all those things and more, it's only because Cael gets better recruits.

Sitting there like Captain Queeg proving your point with a load of minutiae doesn't really prove anything - well, except that you won't give full credit to the guy who is proving he is the best coach in college wrestling today by getting the results.

You forgot a progression at the bottom of your post.....remember when it was, "Cael caught lightning in a bottle with David Taylor and Ed Ruth - PSU will never win another B1G or National Title after they graduate.....". Both the HR and Minny-haha fans were fond of claiming that Cael's and PSU's brief reign would end after Taylor and Ruth graduated, but have now moved on to new and different excuse making.....

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Yep. The transfers helped Iowa win three titles. Since the transfers left the program, Iowa has won zero titles. Everything else is speculation. "If they had stayed ..." is clearly speculation. It's not information. How Penn State did in 2008 isn't even relevant (was Cael going to bring back Phil Davis and Mark McKnight?).

I don't know if anyone fully grasps how bad things had gotten at Penn State in 2009 - even Penn State fans. 15 duals - four wins (Lock Haven, Missouri, Michigan - who they later were waxed by - and Michigan State). They didn't even beat Purdue and Indiana.

If anyone wants to be fair and honest, take a look at two names on the roster Cael inherited - Frank Molinaro and Bryan Pearsall (not to mention James English). Look at their career progression and then tell me Cael can't coach. Look at Jordan Conaway. It's enough already.



Exactly. Tom left VT to go to a program that was in much better shape than VT. Cael left an ISU program that was in much better shape than Penn State. Which coach was taking on a bigger challenge? I will say that taking the Iowa job is something like taking the UCLA job in basketball - it's hard to measure up to what Gable and Wooden accomplished. So in that respect, Iowa is a challenge of a different sort.

Really, Brands isn't a bad coach at all but the endless rehashing of "numbers" by people on HR to "prove" that Cael isn't a good coach (or not as good as Brands) is becoming really tiresome - because, if you are going to be honest, that is the point of the exercise. First it was Cael will never beat Iowa, then it was Cael isn't going to win a Big Ten title, then it was Cael isn't going to win a NCAA title - now that Cael has done all those things and more, it's only because Cael gets better recruits.

Sitting there like Captain Queeg proving your point with a load of minutiae doesn't really prove anything - well, except that you won't give full credit to the guy who is proving he is the best coach in college wrestling today by getting the results.

This is an excellent,well thought out post. There is no way you take this much common sense to HR. I think you posted it in the right place.

 

[El-Jefe]

Seems to me like HR is the most appropriate place to argue with perceived objectionable content on HR. Not sure why the stuff is being brought over here if the beef isn't with BWI content.

What, you don't love the Double Recruiting Class debate?

 

[bwfight]

There is another aspect of Cael's recruiting success that I haven't seen discussed on this board that I believe is relevant, and that is the community of faith within the Penn State wrestling room. Beginning with Cael and enhanced by other leaders on the team including Matt Brown, Tank, Nico, Jordan, Bo, Jason, and others, there is a clear and unmistakable faith that pervades this team. If you look at the twitter accounts for many of the wrestlers, their faith in God is front and center as the foundation for how they approach life. During the Penn State wrestling kick-off Franklin Gomez shared the role that faith has played in his life and in his wrestling. While I am not suggesting that this faith element is lacking in the Iowa program because I really don't follow their program that closely, I do believe that it is an integral component of why wrestlers to whom this is important are attracted to Penn State. And when you hear Cael and others talking about being grateful for the opportunities they have (which is typically interwoven into nearly every interview) that is further testimony to the role that faith plays in the lives of many of the coaches and wrestlers.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

There is another aspect of Cael's recruiting success that I haven't seen discussed on this board that I believe is relevant, and that is the community of faith within the Penn State wrestling room. Beginning with Cael and enhanced by other leaders on the team including Matt Brown, Tank, Nico, Jordan, Bo, Jason, and others, there is a clear and unmistakable faith that pervades this team. If you look at the twitter accounts for many of the wrestlers, their faith in God is front and center as the foundation for how they approach life. During the Penn State wrestling kick-off Franklin Gomez shared the role that faith has played in his life and in his wrestling. While I am not suggesting that this faith element is lacking in the Iowa program because I really don't follow their program that closely, I do believe that it is an integral component of why wrestlers to whom this is important are attracted to Penn State. And when you hear Cael and others talking about being grateful for the opportunities they have (which is typically interwoven into nearly every interview) that is further testimony to the role that faith plays in the lives of many of the coaches and wrestlers.

I want great wrestlers who are good citizens. Hopefully they don't believe that dinosaurs walked the earth with man, but that's between them and their god (or gods because I don't want to leave the polytheists out of it).

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

What, you don't love the Double Recruiting Class debate?

Yes, thread needs to be more forward looking and explore new ground..... Perhaps it should be turned to a contest guessing what HR's latest excuse will be for Cael's and PSU's latest success and Brand's and Iowa's latest failures - just a suggestion to generate new material and explore new ground so to speak.

 

[dropster45]

There is another aspect of Cael's recruiting success that I haven't seen discussed on this board that I believe is relevant, and that is the community of faith within the Penn State wrestling room. Beginning with Cael and enhanced by other leaders on the team including Matt Brown, Tank, Nico, Jordan, Bo, Jason, and others, there is a clear and unmistakable faith that pervades this team. If you look at the twitter accounts for many of the wrestlers, their faith in God is front and center as the foundation for how they approach life. During the Penn State wrestling kick-off Franklin Gomez shared the role that faith has played in his life and in his wrestling. While I am not suggesting that this faith element is lacking in the Iowa program because I really don't follow their program that closely, I do believe that it is an integral component of why wrestlers to whom this is important are attracted to Penn State. And when you hear Cael and others talking about being grateful for the opportunities they have (which is typically interwoven into nearly every interview) that is further testimony to the role that faith plays in the lives of many of the coaches and wrestlers.

Amen Brother! I Agree! The only thing I'd caution against is selling it, because as soon as we do, it becomes a television evangelist type of arrangement and may invite "actors" acting the part. Look around the church on Sunday and unfortunately, you find a small group who just uses it for cover. Most are there for the right reasons, but not all. Better to leave this in it's "humility box", where it belongs.
But that's just my humble opinion.

 

[El-Jefe]

There is another aspect of Cael's recruiting success that I haven't seen discussed on this board that I believe is relevant, and that is the community of faith within the Penn State wrestling room. Beginning with Cael and enhanced by other leaders on the team including Matt Brown, Tank, Nico, Jordan, Bo, Jason, and others, there is a clear and unmistakable faith that pervades this team. If you look at the twitter accounts for many of the wrestlers, their faith in God is front and center as the foundation for how they approach life. During the Penn State wrestling kick-off Franklin Gomez shared the role that faith has played in his life and in his wrestling. While I am not suggesting that this faith element is lacking in the Iowa program because I really don't follow their program that closely, I do believe that it is an integral component of why wrestlers to whom this is important are attracted to Penn State. And when you hear Cael and others talking about being grateful for the opportunities they have (which is typically interwoven into nearly every interview) that is further testimony to the role that faith plays in the lives of many of the coaches and wrestlers.

This is a good point. The team shares an acceptance of things outside their control, that allows them to focus on the things they can control. There's no religious test, but strong faith allows people to let go of distractions.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

This is a good point. The team shares an acceptance of things outside their control, that allows them to focus on the things they can control. There's no religious test, but strong faith allows people to let go of distractions.

Yea, I think Cael usually phrases as "trust the process" and believe in yourself (i.e., confidence) - which is not to say that he encourages "over-confidence", but rather believe you have the ability to accomplish great things (otherwise PSU would not have recruited you) and that this ability will come to the fore if you "trust the process" (i.e., have faith and belief in the process).

 

[bwfight]

Yes I agree that it's not something we want to sell, nor do I believe that Cael and company do that. However, if this is something that is important to potential recruits it could enhance their interest.

 

[jammenz]

I want great wrestlers who are good citizens. Hopefully they don't believe that dinosaurs walked the earth with man, but that's between them and their god (or gods because I don't want to leave the polytheists out of it).

 

[Dogwelder]

...remember when it was, "Cael caught lightning in a bottle with David Taylor and Ed Ruth...

It was: "Cael caught lightning." Now, in reality, it's: "Cael is Zeus, master of lightning."

 

[Dogwelder]

... I don't want to leave the polytheists out of it ...

Now, now. Cael is from Utah, but they have only one wife each there. Same as anyone else.

 

[CropDuster507]

So, we've boiled it down to God wanting Penn State to win? Am I following this correctly?

Sidebar: Had a very interesting conversation with the priest in my school about being "blessed" vs. a saint. I don't think he enjoyed it, but I'm probably becoming a saint at some point.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

shut up