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All About Recruiting

Yes I agree that it's not something we want to sell, nor do I believe that Cael and company do that. However, if this is something that is important to potential recruits it could enhance their interest.
That's what I'm afraid of really. Recruits, and let face it some of their parents are really psycho, who will play the part (or have been playing the part) to get in. There are people who would do that, not to mention run someone over in their pickup truck on their way to church, if they thought it would appease Cael & Co. I'm thinking we are way better off keeping the religion & politics stuff to ourselves and, except on an individual basis, out of the wrestling room.
 
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So, we've boiled it down to God wanting Penn State to win? Am I following this correctly?

Sidebar: Had a very interesting conversation with the priest in my school about being "blessed" vs. a saint. I don't think he enjoyed it, but I'm probably becoming a saint at some point.
jesusdinosaur.jpg
I have to give credit to Jammenz on this, or as some would call it, "positive reinforcement".
Ok, credit given, now I can go back to bashing him.
 
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I don't know Cael or Tom Brands personally, so my comment is based on opinions formed from watching and/or reading interviews they have done. A most recent example was provided immediately following the Penn State vs. Iowa match on 1/20. Cael came across as cool, calm, and collected, very much in control and radiating confidence during his interview. Tom Brands looked wild-eyed, frenetic, and on the verge of completely losing his composure. Albeit this was immediately following a difficult loss, but even during the OK State and many other matches compare his demeanor with that of Cael and his staff. Interestingly, Gilman seems to mirror many of the characteristics that Tom Brands displays, and even his interview following the match revealed the character of someone who is consumed totally by wrestling much as it appears to be the case of his mentor. Compare and contrast that with Cael's philosophy of wrestling simply being one aspect of the desire to maximize one's potential in life and how that is mirrored by so many of his proteges. In my opinion, that is the larger issue that has the greatest impact on the unparalleled success Cael has had not only in recruiting, but developing terrific young men. So when you look at the bigger picture, I don't see Tom Brands ever closing the gap on Cael. He will continue to attract and replicate mini me versions of himself like Thomas Gilman.

The problem is Brands' wrestling style is how he coaches and those two things don't work. His style doesn't adapt well to being an elite college coach. One hell of a wrestler and very dynamic there, not the best coach. The world has shifted and people are different than what they were 20-40 years ago. The same mentality from back then doesn't work with younger kids today. Smith and Ryan are currently ahead of him in my opinion and clearly Cael is too.
 
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Have to correct the egregious misinformation. Bubba went 0-2 at the 2009 NCAAs, the year before Cael. Bubba never wrestled as the starter for Cael in any dual or tournament. He purposely made himself academically ineligible for the first semester of the 2009-10 season and then got kicked off the team all of which got Bubba the redshirt year he wanted.


Iowa finished 6th in the B1G in 2006, PSU finished 7th in the B1G in 2009. The only real tangible difference is that Penn State had a bad NCAA tourney with Bubba going 0-2. His only loss was Metcalf at B1Gs before that I believe.

I was was talking about the year before each coach showed up on campus. Like it or not, Cael inherited Bubba...a prior AA from 2008. What happened after was inside baseball.
 
If anyone wants to be fair and honest, take a look at two names on the roster Cael inherited - Frank Molinaro and Bryan Pearsall (not to mention James English). Look at their career progression and then tell me Cael can't coach. Look at Jordan Conaway. It's enough already.

Frank Molinaro was an AA his true freshman year before Cael got there. His progression was 8, 5, 2, 1. Molinaro was already damn good. You forgot to mention Q....who finished 6th (BC). English and Conaway are fine examples of good coaching...did Pearsall AA? Can't remember but I do remember rooting for English to AA. I guess I'd have to counter with Montell Marion (#115) (DNQ, 2,4,2,) Nathan Burak (UR) (DNP, 8,7,4) Daniel Dennis (UR) (DNQ, DNQ, 7, 2)...DD went from being an unranked guy with no state championships to making an Olympic Team.

Exactly. Tom left VT to go to a program that was in much better shape than VT. Cael left an ISU program that was in much better shape than Penn State. Which coach was taking on a bigger challenge? I will say that taking the Iowa job is something like taking the UCLA job in basketball - it's hard to measure up to what Gable and Wooden accomplished. So in that respect, Iowa is a challenge of a different sort.

I think I already proved that Iowa and PSU were in a similar situation at the time. Cael took DT, Brown, Cyler eventually Long, while having Ed, Molinaro, Q, and Bubba waiting for him. Your prior post suggested no loyalty from Brands because he left VT but I guess you are going to do this with each successive post in regards to transfers and complete ignore Cael's "transfers. Cael already had a "challenge" going on in Iowa. Let's not pretend he left for the challenge of taking over a little known podunk college with no history in the sport in a state whose high school kids think wrestling is something you do in the backseat of the car after a football game. Talk about some mental gymnastics. But yea...go ahead:

kid-fingers-in-ears.jpeg
 
The problem is Brands' wrestling style is how he coaches and those two things don't work. His style doesn't adapt well to being an elite college coach. ...
After the stock market moves, it's really easy to make an explanation.

Brands' style won't work, but if he gets a few more Lees and Teasdales, then his style will work. And if he does not get a few more Lees and Teasdales, then we can blame his style for not getting more Lees and Teasdales. But, then again, if we get too happy with that, then the other side will say that when Cael was not getting all the Lees and Teasdales at ISU, we should have blamed his style?

This whole thing is getting too much like explaining the stock market. There are a few things we can say for sure, but some other conjectures are like arguing about the number of fairies on a pin.
 
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Frank Molinaro was an AA his true freshman year before Cael got there. His progression was 8, 5, 2, 1. Molinaro was already damn good. You forgot to mention Q....who finished 6th (BC). English and Conaway are fine examples of good coaching...did Pearsall AA? Can't remember but I do remember rooting for English to AA. I guess I'd have to counter with Montell Marion (#115) (DNQ, 2,4,2,) Nathan Burak (UR) (DNP, 8,7,4) Daniel Dennis (UR) (DNQ, DNQ, 7, 2)...DD went from being an unranked guy with no state championships to making an Olympic Team.



I think I already proved that Iowa and PSU were in a similar situation at the time. Cael took DT, Brown, Cyler eventually Long, while having Ed, Molinaro, Q, and Bubba waiting for him. Your prior post suggested no loyalty from Brands because he left VT but I guess you are going to do this with each successive post in regards to transfers and complete ignore Cael's "transfers. Cael already had a "challenge" going on in Iowa. Let's not pretend he left for the challenge of taking over a little known podunk college with no history in the sport in a state whose high school kids think wrestling is something you do in the backseat of the car after a football game. Talk about some mental gymnastics.
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Frank Molinaro was an AA his true freshman year before Cael got there. His progression was 8, 5, 2, 1. Molinaro was already damn good. You forgot to mention Q....who finished 6th (BC). English and Conaway are fine examples of good coaching...did Pearsall AA? Can't remember but I do remember rooting for English to AA. I guess I'd have to counter with Montell Marion (#115) (DNQ, 2,4,2,) Nathan Burak (UR) (DNP, 8,7,4) Daniel Dennis (UR) (DNQ, DNQ, 7, 2)...DD went from being an unranked guy with no state championships to making an Olympic Team.



I think I already proved that Iowa and PSU were in a similar situation at the time. Cael took DT, Brown, Cyler eventually Long, while having Ed, Molinaro, Q, and Bubba waiting for him. Your prior post suggested no loyalty from Brands because he left VT but I guess you are going to do this with each successive post in regards to transfers and complete ignore Cael's "transfers. Cael already had a "challenge" going on in Iowa. Let's not pretend he left for the challenge of taking over a little known podunk college with no history in the sport in a state whose high school kids think wrestling is something you do in the backseat of the car after a football game. Talk about some mental gymnastics. But yea...go ahead:

kid-fingers-in-ears.jpeg

Molinaro was not an AA as a true frosh. His RS Frosh year he was around .500 in the regular season, finished 8th at BIGs and got a wild card to NCAAs where with a few breaks in the brackets he finished 8th. He was MUCH improved the next year finishing 4th at BIGs and 5th at NCAAs. Not trying to call you out but you keep getting the facts wrong.
 
BWI: "Our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "No, you're not listening, our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, YOU'RE NOT LISTENING, OUR GUY IS BETTER THAN YOUR GUY."
BWI: "I'm gonna tell your mom what you said."
HR: "Go ahead, I dare ya."
BWI: "Well, nanny nanny boo boo."
HR: "Tell ya what, I'll bet you $100 our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "You're on."
HR: "What are we gonna use as a measure?"
BWI: "Gee, I don't know."
HR: "I don't know either."
Followed by silence.
 
BWI: "Our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "No, you're not listening, our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, YOU'RE NOT LISTENING, OUR GUY IS BETTER THAN YOUR GUY."
BWI: "I'm gonna tell your mom what you said."
HR: "Go ahead, I dare ya."
BWI: "Well, nanny nanny boo boo."
HR: "Tell ya what, I'll bet you $100 our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "You're on."
HR: "What are we gonna use as a measure?"
BWI: "Gee, I don't know."
HR: "I don't know either."
Followed by silence.

Good one. I think slush may be rubbing off on you.
 
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BWI: "Our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "No, you're not listening, our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, YOU'RE NOT LISTENING, OUR GUY IS BETTER THAN YOUR GUY."
BWI: "I'm gonna tell your mom what you said."
HR: "Go ahead, I dare ya."
BWI: "Well, nanny nanny boo boo."
HR: "Tell ya what, I'll bet you $100 our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "You're on."
HR: "What are we gonna use as a measure?"
BWI: "Gee, I don't know."
HR: "I don't know either."
Followed by silence.
Those who still think Cael can't coach = brain damaged cretins. All the rest is noise.
 
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BWI: "Our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "No, you're not listening, our guy is better than your guy."
HR: "No, YOU'RE NOT LISTENING, OUR GUY IS BETTER THAN YOUR GUY."
BWI: "I'm gonna tell your mom what you said."
HR: "Go ahead, I dare ya."
BWI: "Well, nanny nanny boo boo."
HR: "Tell ya what, I'll bet you $100 our guy is better than your guy."
BWI: "You're on."
HR: "What are we gonna use as a measure?"
BWI: "Gee, I don't know."
HR: "I don't know either."
Followed by silence.

All except for the fact that HR, not BWI, folks are the one's who started this nonsense all the way back in 2009 by mocking Cael, who they deemed "Carl", for claiming that he was going to dominate NCAA wrestling by simply moving from ISU to PSU and Pennsylvania (they repeatedly talked about how Iowa and Brands dominated ISU after Cael was named Head Coach for the 2007/2008 season - Brands was named Head Coach at Iowa for the 2006/2007 season and Iowa beat Cael's ISU teams including placing higher at Nationals in 2008 and 2009 before Cael left for PSU). HR folks repeatedly scoffed and mocked Cael's (or "Carl's" as they called him) comments that he was going to PSU, and leaving ISU, because it would allow him to build a dynasty to dominate NCAA wrestling from. Well, when Brands and Iowa won their 3rd Consecutive NCAA Team Title at the 2010 NCAAs in Cael's first year at PSU - the HR folks were pretty mouthy about "Carl".......it would seem they have become a whole lot less mouthy about how Brands and Iowa are going to dominate "Carl", and how "Carl" can't coach, since "Carl" and PSU have won 5 of the last 6 since 2010 (including 4 consecutively from the 2011 NCAA Tournament through the 2014 NCAA Tournament).....and Brands and Iowa have been no better than an "also ran" after Brands "VaTech Double recruiting classes" ran out after the 2010 NCAA Tournament.

If anybody needs to "just shut up" with their absurd rationalizations and excuse-making about how "Carl" is going to stop winning any day now.....and how he can't coach or develop talent......and how he just caught lightning in a bottle with David Taylor and Ed Ruth and then it'd be over.......etc, ad naseum......, it would be the pathetic HR Brands -Iowa's still the greatest, Carl sucks blah, blah, blah "rationalizers" and spinners.
 
All except for the fact that HR, not BWI, folks are the one's who started this nonsense all the way back in 2009 by mocking Cael, who they deemed "Carl", for claiming that he was going to dominate NCAA wrestling by simply moving from ISU to PSU and Pennsylvania (they repeatedly talked about how Iowa and Brands dominated ISU after Cael was named Head Coach for the 2007/2008 season - Brands was named Head Coach at Iowa for the 2006/2007 season and Iowa beat Cael's ISU teams including placing higher at Nationals in 2008 and 2009 before Cael left for PSU). HR folks repeatedly scoffed and mocked Cael's (or "Carl's" as they called him) comments that he was going to PSU, and leaving ISU, because it would allow him to build a dynasty to dominate NCAA wrestling from. Well, when Brands and Iowa won their 3rd Consecutive NCAA Team Title at the 2010 NCAAs in Cael's first year at PSU - the HR folks were pretty mouthy about "Carl".......it would seem they have become a whole lot less mouthy about how Brands and Iowa are going to dominate "Carl", and how "Carl" can't coach, since "Carl" and PSU have won 5 of the last 6 since 2010 (including 4 consecutively from the 2011 NCAA Tournament through the 2014 NCAA Tournament).....and Brands and Iowa have been no better than an "also ran" after Brands "VaTech Double recruiting classes" ran out after the 2010 NCAA Tournament.

If anybody needs to "just shut up" with their absurd rationalizations and excuse-making about how "Carl" is going to stop winning any day now.....and how he can't coach or develop talent......and how he just caught lightning in a bottle with David Taylor and Ed Ruth and then it'd be over.......etc, ad naseum......, it would be the pathetic HR Brands -Iowa's still the greatest, Carl sucks blah, blah, blah "rationalizers" and spinners.

I regret that I have but one like to give.
 
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Molinaro was not an AA as a true frosh. His RS Frosh year he was around .500 in the regular season, finished 8th at BIGs and got a wild card to NCAAs where with a few breaks in the brackets he finished 8th. He was MUCH improved the next year finishing 4th at BIGs and 5th at NCAAs. Not trying to call you out but you keep getting the facts wrong.

Correct on Frank on the RS thing, I always thought he shirted when Cael got there...thanks. I also think you are selling Frank short. Unranked RS Freshman loses in the first round (to the eventual finalist) and wrestles back to an AA? That would be like saying English lucked out. English beat a 12, lost, unseeded, unseeded, and a 10 to become an AA in the bracket that TShirt won. He got into the NCAAs largely on open tourney victories and a 5th place finish at B1Gs in which TShirt and Sueflohn were the finalists. Frank=Caught breaks English=Great Example of coaching...as I've heard many times on here. You're even doing it to your own guy. I am not knocking either. IMO, wrestling back to an AA after a first or second round loss is studly no matter who is in the bracket or in the corner. I'd take both results from either a RS Frosh or a sixth year guy who had been plagued with injuries his whole career.
 
All except for the fact that HR, not BWI, folks are the one's who started this nonsense all the way back in 2009 by mocking Cael, who they deemed "Carl", for claiming that he was going to dominate NCAA wrestling by simply moving from ISU to PSU and Pennsylvania (they repeatedly talked about how Iowa and Brands dominated ISU after Cael was named Head Coach for the 2007/2008 season - Brands was named Head Coach at Iowa for the 2006/2007 season and Iowa beat Cael's ISU teams including placing higher at Nationals in 2008 and 2009 before Cael left for PSU). HR folks repeatedly scoffed and mocked Cael's (or "Carl's" as they called him) comments that he was going to PSU, and leaving ISU, because it would allow him to build a dynasty to dominate NCAA wrestling from. Well, when Brands and Iowa won their 3rd Consecutive NCAA Team Title at the 2010 NCAAs in Cael's first year at PSU - the HR folks were pretty mouthy about "Carl".......it would seem they have become a whole lot less mouthy about how Brands and Iowa are going to dominate "Carl", and how "Carl" can't coach, since "Carl" and PSU have won 5 of the last 6 since 2010 (including 4 consecutively from the 2011 NCAA Tournament through the 2014 NCAA Tournament and in 2015 after the"ISU double recruiting class was over" then finished sixth with a "regular, non loaded" team).....and Brands and Iowa have been no better than an "also ran" after Brands "VaTech Double recruiting classes" ran out after the 2010 NCAA Tournament. Since we're not counting "double recruiting classes," Carl is only 1 title up on Brands.

If anybody needs to "just shut up" with their absurd rationalizations and excuse-making about how "Carl" is going to stop winning any day now.....and how he can't coach or develop talent......and how he just caught lightning in a bottle with David Taylor and Ed Ruth and then it'd be over.......etc, ad naseum......, it would be the pathetic HR Brands -Iowa's still the greatest, Carl sucks blah, blah, blah "rationalizers" and spinners. CARL! CARL! CARL! Now GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!

FIFY. C'mon now Fart...even Cael Happel makes jokes about being called Carl ;) (Hint: it autocorrects on your phone as Carl) (Another hint: HR has a peculiar spell check function thing going on...ask Streibler)
 
Just think if Brands could start with a super talent like say a Metcalf, and Cael was stuck with the lesser ranked guy like Frank the Tank. Can you imagine how far the gap would become with the great developer coaching the super star and the great recruiter trying to coach up the less heralded guy? Metcalf would crush him! hmm?
 
FIFY. C'mon now Fart...even Cael Happel makes jokes about being called Carl ;) (Hint: it autocorrects on your phone as Carl) (Another hint: HR has a peculiar spell check function thing going on...ask Streibler)
You would think these phone manufacturers would make a way to change an autocorrect. It would be so convenient, if someone really wanted to.
 
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You would think these phone manufacturers would make a way to change an autocorrect. It would be so convenient, if someone really wanted to.
Yeah, I have the same problem. Seems spellcheck frequently "converts" my name to "jackass". Funny, my name isn't even close in spelling to that, but I get these letters... Spellcheck is funny.
 
You would think thes phone manufacturers would make a way to change an autocorrect. It would be so convenient, if someone really wanted to.
My new Samsung Galaxy S7 (no, not the phone that melts on airplanes) does. As you're typing, there's a check mark on the suggested words bar that you can tap to add any word to the dictionary.

The hitch is: if you forget to click the check and instead manually correct by deleting and typing over, then it auto-corrects things in weird ways and remembers those, and IDK if there's a way to remove from the dictionary. So my phone auto-corrects "Cael's" to read "Cael'sanderson."

But my old phone -- Blackberry Z30 -- did not let me add to the dictionary, and so I constantly had to manually correct words common in my industry. Really great feature for a work phone. Especially when you're a defense contractor ... phone-induced typos can be a problem. (The US Army hates when I say Carl instead of Cael.)
 
You would think these phone manufacturers would make a way to change an autocorrect. It would be so convenient, if someone really wanted to.

Yea I know, right? Maybe I should ask my Queen of all She Sees, er spouse, to help me figure it out.
 
Correct on Frank on the RS thing, I always thought he shirted when Cael got there...thanks. I also think you are selling Frank short. Unranked RS Freshman loses in the first round (to the eventual finalist) and wrestles back to an AA? That would be like saying English lucked out. English beat a 12, lost, unseeded, unseeded, and a 10 to become an AA in the bracket that TShirt won. He got into the NCAAs largely on open tourney victories and a 5th place finish at B1Gs in which TShirt and Sueflohn were the finalists. Frank=Caught breaks English=Great Example of coaching...as I've heard many times on here. You're even doing it to your own guy. I am not knocking either. IMO, wrestling back to an AA after a first or second round loss is studly no matter who is in the bracket or in the corner. I'd take both results from either a RS Frosh or a sixth year guy who had been plagued with injuries his whole career.

You Completely missed my point.
 
You Completely missed my point.

Correct. Molinaro went from being a roughly .500 wrestler his freshman year to an undefeated senior with 23 bonus points wins among his 33. Saying Cael can't develop wrestlers is being either ignorant or ridiculous. And Frank is not the only example by any means. He can recruit and coach and wins championships. I'm more than a little done with unsupported positions that deny the obvious, especially ones that use convoluted statistics.
 
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