Yea there seems to be a few strange ones on these boards? Not sure what sites they are going to, paying for, hanging at???? It is a little troublesome if you ask me, but then again, the whole darn world seems to be heading in the wrong direction!!!
HAVE YOU HEARD???
- Thread starter IRONBIRD
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Objective View of Spencer's career:
Spencer's freshman year tournament was impressive, he beat Suriano and NATO, both champs, only time he had 2 good knees. Keep in mind Suriano was the one if anything was coming back from injury. That was a good bracket with 4 champs in the semis.
After that, it was hard to improve his resume, took a few Ls his sophomore year but he did win, facing 2 AAs in the bracket.
His junior year, by his own admission, he was the only returning AA in that bracket. Glory and Vito weren't allowed to compete. Yes he had double ACL tears so that was unique but I'm not going to try to extrapolate that to some GOAT level thing, I'm sorry.
Iowa fans can deny it all they want but losing his last year tanks him in all time standings, especially since the guy he lost to almost didn't even make the semis and has since shown he isn't some next level world beater.
Similarly, Spencer won a Hodge where he didn't have to wrestle NCAAs and one where Gable won the actual votes but he was just given it anyways.
Spencer's freshman year tournament was impressive, he beat Suriano and NATO, both champs, only time he had 2 good knees. Keep in mind Suriano was the one if anything was coming back from injury. That was a good bracket with 4 champs in the semis.
After that, it was hard to improve his resume, took a few Ls his sophomore year but he did win, facing 2 AAs in the bracket.
His junior year, by his own admission, he was the only returning AA in that bracket. Glory and Vito weren't allowed to compete. Yes he had double ACL tears so that was unique but I'm not going to try to extrapolate that to some GOAT level thing, I'm sorry.
Iowa fans can deny it all they want but losing his last year tanks him in all time standings, especially since the guy he lost to almost didn't even make the semis and has since shown he isn't some next level world beater.
Similarly, Spencer won a Hodge where he didn't have to wrestle NCAAs and one where Gable won the actual votes but he was just given it anyways.
I don’t think you watch enough freestyle wrestling. Edge wrestling in freestyle is some of the most exciting wrestling. It forces people to be aggressive and attack. Lots of great scramble opportunities come from the one point step out. Some concede points but they’re not gonna do it often. Also what kind of wrestler are you if you can’t use someone’s forward momentum against them. Wrestling is a push pull sport. Action opposite reaction.
I agree, here is the exact moment it started going off the rails.
Ummm Objective???
TRUE FRESHMAN, COMING OFF ACL SURGERY! Wrestling @ 6 months later and WINNING NCAAs. Knee/leg strength no where near 100%!
Sop year, dealing with set backs and possible a tear again? DESTROYS FIELD!
JR year, wrestles with TWO torn ACLs and WINS NCAAs.
At this point in time, he may have accomplished TWOOO things that NO ONE ELSE ever has? 1) coming off knee surgery as a HS senior and wrestling WINNING NCAAs 2) Winning NCAAs with two torn ACLs.
NOT ONE of the wrestlers anyone has mentioned would even TRY THIS!!! If they did, they would lose and lose badly!!! You can go right ahead and even ask them and they will tell you! This is the FACT and it is not debatable, SL's level of domination was ridiculous!
the NCAA screwed many wrestlers during covid. There was many options that could have been used to make it right and they did nothing!!! SL is a 4 timer if the NCAA leadership was not a bunch of scumbags!
The rest of you post is equally unimpressive!!!
This should EASLY win POST of the YEAR up in this bitch yo!!!!!
Something that never actually happened and is just a hypothetical you made up out of thin air is actually the exact opposite of a "fact". LOL.
You can spin a narrative however you want, the results are the results.
Want me to play a hypothetical and say Zain is an undefeated 4 timer if he redshirted?
How about the fact Yianni actually tore his ACL during the 2018 tournament as a true freshman and winning?
Watch a match with AB and then watch a match with AJ. Enough said. Don't have to explain shit it's obvious captain. Lol. Why don't you explain why someone you watched win by one or two points, at best, two years ago can somehow compete with AB. The fact that you don't see this is laughable or you are just talking shit. Since you are an Iowa fan I'm going with both laughable and full of shit
and then, like a little child, he refused to come out in the consy's...TWICE! IMO, this is the biggest stain on his legacy!
Three, unless you're not allowed to use a redshirt when you are thrown off a team.
20-21. Champ. This year doesn't count.
21-22. Had ten matches in before the car incident and subsequently dismissed from team
22-23. Spent the year making ridiculous social media posts while waiting for his sexual assault case to be heard. Somehow got the victim to refuse to testify, which was very likely tampering by a slumlord, by who knows?
Not eligibility but isn't there a clock that you have only so many years once the clock starts??
That's kind of what I thought. Something about 5 years to wrestle 4, discounting medical waivers and ORS?
It's typically 4 years of competition in 5 calendar years, but he's in the cohort of guys who got a free year for 2021, so his is 4 in 6 years, unless he can talk the NCAA into a medical RS for his auto accident year, which would be a farce.
21: Won but year not counted for eligibility
22: Injured & kicked off team - counts as year 1
23: Out of college & wrestling - counts as redshirt year
24: This year counts as year 2 whether he wrestles or not
25,26: Final two years he can use NCAA eligibility
Reality is this @IRONBIRD
The true standing of Spencer Lee is somewhere in the middle of where PSU and Iowa fans have him. It's ludicrous to put him in the conversation for GOAT, it just is and you know what? I bet he would tell you that. (since you want to play the "ask them, he'll tell you game) He lost his last year, period. He lost to a guy that would have been an unknown if not for beating him. Not unlike Dan Gable. Owings would be a 2 time finalist after that. injuries limited his ultimate accolades but guess what? That is part of the sport, durability, that's why people have Cael up so high.
But on the flip side, just tanking Spencer as "just another national champion wrestler" (like some PSU fans do) isn't right either, he truly was a generational talent out of HS, we saw it many times over and over. He came in and dominated in a way nobody ever has before and maintained it for the most part. It was enjoyable to watch even as a Penn State fan.
The true standing of Spencer Lee is somewhere in the middle of where PSU and Iowa fans have him. It's ludicrous to put him in the conversation for GOAT, it just is and you know what? I bet he would tell you that. (since you want to play the "ask them, he'll tell you game) He lost his last year, period. He lost to a guy that would have been an unknown if not for beating him. Not unlike Dan Gable. Owings would be a 2 time finalist after that. injuries limited his ultimate accolades but guess what? That is part of the sport, durability, that's why people have Cael up so high.
But on the flip side, just tanking Spencer as "just another national champion wrestler" (like some PSU fans do) isn't right either, he truly was a generational talent out of HS, we saw it many times over and over. He came in and dominated in a way nobody ever has before and maintained it for the most part. It was enjoyable to watch even as a Penn State fan.
What amazed me about Spencer was his complete domination of anyone and everyone on top with basic moves. He could do a bar arm wrist tilt on the top guys in the nation. His strength and control on top were absolutely incredible. As a guy who watched him throughout his high school and college career (hell, he was on the radar in Jr. High), I truly appreciate how great he was.
Thanks again to Gpago for providing this data.
| Nolf | Retherford | Nickal | Taylor | Ruth | S. Lee | |
| Win Rate | 97.50% | 97.67% | 97.56% | 97.81% | 97.84% | 94.06% |
| Bonus Rate | 87.50% | 75.97% | 77.24% | 88.32% | 74.82% | 82.18% |
| Pin Rate | 50.00% | 41.09% | 47.97% | 38.69% | 33.09% | 33.66% |
| Pin + TF Rate | 72.50% | 58.14% | 57.72% | 69.34% | 51.08% | 66.34% |
| Average Rank | 2.25 | 3.75 | 3.75 | 2.25 | 4.75 | 4.25 |
Which is???
STILL would have needed to redshirt and that is PART of my point!!!!
You start off with a valid argument, but then can not control yourself and go off in a bad way. This may be why you had a tough time as a wrestler!?!?!? You need to stay cool under fire.
Make your argument and I will make mine!!! AJ was a freshman. He is an unbelievable defensive wrestler incredibly hard to score on! He let up TWOOOO takedowns on his way to a National Championship. AB is not a scoring juggernaut, he is also small for the weight while AJ is a MONSTER!
The kid was HURT!!! In a different scenario, he would not be wrestling at all. Not sure what you don't understand? It was worth the risk going for 4, after that, the risk is not worth it.
THERESE BABY!!!!!
OK, I agree with what you are saying. Question is, when did I say he was the GOAT? He is in my opinion the best wrestler I ever seen, WHEN he is at or near 100%!!!! My whole argument is about why I believe this. I point to when he wrestled in the FS Jr, Nationals I believe it was a few years back.
The bracket was LOADED!!!! SL was as healthy as ever while in college. He went thru that tournament like a BUZZSAW!!! National champions were falling like bowling pins in his wake of terror!!!
I get he did not finish the job, and had some "bad" loses that will keep him from the college GOAT conversation. But it is very similar to BO JACKSON! Guy was a super freak and got hurt. STILL was the best RB I ever saw, but is he the GOAT???? NO he got hurt,
OH ALMOST FORGOT!!!!
MR. FAST TWITCH is reported to be in IOWA!!!!!!
I assume he is required by law to notify you and your neighbors?
I'm a survivor of the 1977 flood. I was 1. My dad said it was horrific, he couldn't make it to work.
The house down the road was built on an alluvial plain. Oops for them. In a flood situation, it's like being handed a shit sandwich on moldy bread. Then being kicked in the nuts.
One of my 3 geology profs lived right up the road. He took a ton of photos and wrote numerous papers on the 1977 flood. RIP Dr. K. An excellent teacher, mentor, and friend.
@IRONBIRD
I will admit, i was one of several that piled on you for your posts on HR/GIA. But you are obviously an Iowa fan, and defend them to the end.
From what I have read, you have at least backed up your opinions. Despite an obvious lack of support here.
If you are ever traveling through my little corner of Cambria County PA, let me know. I'll gladly buy you a burger and beer. Talk wrestling and life, and shake hands afterwards.
I will admit, i was one of several that piled on you for your posts on HR/GIA. But you are obviously an Iowa fan, and defend them to the end.
From what I have read, you have at least backed up your opinions. Despite an obvious lack of support here.
If you are ever traveling through my little corner of Cambria County PA, let me know. I'll gladly buy you a burger and beer. Talk wrestling and life, and shake hands afterwards.
I have no problem with him being a 100% IOWA fan and defends them. But he is also the guy that believes PSU BUYS wrestlers, cheats to attract top wrestlers, uses PEDs and that Cael is a fraud. While he is here, if it’s HIM, he plays nice - but among his homies he’s abhorrent. I’ll pass on buying him a burger and beer unless he recants on the above.
A friend of mine at the time got a "flood car" from the 1977 flood cheap. Lime green Super Bee. Changed the oil and drove the hell out of it until he blew it up. If you run across a guy nicknamed "Snowball" in Lilly, ask him about it.
And this is even more unimpressive. You only read what you wanted and stop with nobody else would have tried it without acks is a loser argument that you cannot prove either way wtf already. Use the other half of your brain
I know. I have read much of it. But unlike several of his predecessors, he has at least conducted himself decently on here. I have read worse from PSU fans on their page.
Conducted himself decently by lying, being deceitful at every turn, by laughing at all things psu related, by accusing us of cheating through every means possible. You mean that decently?
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I will keep an ear out for that name.
We got our camp in Potter county from the 1977 flood. A single wide trailer with a bent frame. The frame finally gave out 2 years ago.
You really are dumb enough to believe that guys wouldn’t use the push out as an “offensive” strategy?
Iowa already uses push and scream stalling as an offensive strategy!
I watch enough freestyle to know that push outs are only slightly less boring than seeing 47 second 10-0 tech falls due to a takedown and leg lace.
Johnstown Flood, 1889. Large earthen damn in South Fork controlled by the ultra wealthy. Many of which were from Pittsburgh, including Carnegie and Frick. Broke and flooded the city of Johnstown, killing several thousand people.
It was the first Red Cross disaster response.
Tons of stuff out there, if you're interested. It's a National Park as well.
I never knew about any of this. Seems like no matter where you live, you have to deal with some kind of issues! We had Hurricane Sandy here about a dozen years ago. What a disaster that was so I guess I can relate somewhat. My family lost cars, a boat, and one house destroyed. Only saving grace was my house never lost power, and everyone was able to hunker down here!
TY I appreciate it. Came here because a fellow poster said my name was in like 25,000 posts or some sh*t. Figured I might as well come over and see what all the fuss is about and get some good conversations going. this thread has had some good as well as bad but seems to be worth it as I am learning some things!!!
I will debate ANY topic you wish and defend ALL my positions. You or any other troll comes to the IOWA board and talks smack, you will get it back in spades!
I have something called HISTORY on my side. It is sometimes a great way to make predictions. I can look back into about 100 years of college wrestling and see NO one has done it!!!
Prove where I lied about anything? AGAIN, don't come to the IOWA board with you BS and that will end this conversation quickly!!!
Did NOT say that. What it does is FORCE wrestlers to try and stay in bounds! IOWA wrestles IOWA style which is to say in simplest terms. CONSTANT PRESSURE!!!
I already said I am not a big fan of current FS rules. If you know history, and I guess more importantly, history of wrestling? You would get a better understanding of what has happened over time. The good ol USA was DOMINANT in Wrestling,( also DOMINANT in Weight Lifting I will add, steroids ended that!)
Many if not most countries did not like that. I mean every country will take our $$$$ and support, but not too many stand shoulder to shoulder with us, that being said, international/olympic rules, got further and further away from our Folk style wrestling.
They have done this on purpose and I agree that what they are "selling" is not a good product! The ultimate objective is to PIN someone. Just rolling around several times to get a tech seems somewhat silly.
I will add. As well as we do, just image if international wrestling was more like our style!!!
He was kicked out of his high school and his first college. How long until he punches his ticket out of Iowa? And will it be in cuffs or just in infamy?
coming to Nicktown for a funeral tomorrow... just up to Ebensburg/Gallitzin last month for another...Mother-in-law and sisters ...
I was all for bring him in under the right conditions! It is my believe that the kid needs more guidance and needs to correct his path in life. I am hoping that that is what will happen! Obviously a lot if not all is up to him, but I feel strongly that he could not be in a better place to make changes and improve himself as a HUMAN first and wrestler second!
Sorry to hear this!
If I was the hawks I’d put in an offer on Asher Cunningham, kids going to be good.
‘whatever it takes maybe offer his dad a job even.
‘whatever it takes maybe offer his dad a job even.
I have it on good authority that one of the requirements demanded by the Ferrari clan was for Iowa to double the number of mirrors in their wrestling room.
The guy literally said “excuses are for wussies” and you spend 1000s of words making excuses for him.
He was hurt. Ok. He also lost 6 times and was thrown to his back more than that. Was cradled up by a 3rd stringer.
If healthy … he might have been a 4-timer. We will never know. He went 1-1-1-6.
There are lots of 4 timers ahead of him in GOAT discussion. Many 3 timers in discussion. Some 2 timers too.
Deal w it. Excuses are for wussies.
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