Unlike fine wines, some posts just don't age well.😉
Is Penn State Freshman Levi Haines a Title Contender at 157 Pounds?
- Thread starter NittanyLion84
- Start date
Better question…is Levi Haines now the FAVORITE to win the title at 157?
In my opinion, not right now. I would honestly say Robb, O'Connor or Andonian. However he is a contender
I like that Levi is in the position to be the "hunter" instead of the hunted.
Probably so, but each of them has their own significant flaws. If Levi continues to progress at this rate his chances might be about equal to the other top guys.
You both are absolutely right. Give it another month and experience at Big Tens and there’s no doubt he will be in that conversation and if he’s not, well that’s fine let him hunt.
Levi is the real deal everyone better get use to it
Aged like fine milk.
Who does Haines have left? I would have liked too see him in a tough tourney but considering who he rolls with every day I dont think they are high on C3’s priority list anymore.
I like that Taylor believes he is going to win.
Sunday is his toughest match before B10s. Gilcher is ranked 21 by Intermat, 21-7, beat Saldate this year.
157 will never have a true favorite this season as long as Andonian is in the mix. He could beat any of the top guys but he's not the guy to put together a perfect tournament.
I agree. Kid is dangerous but winning a bunch of tough matches in a row with his style is playing with fire. I like how Levi matches up with him actually. Levi is so sound fundamentally with really good defense and great leg attacks. Match would have me on edge but I think it’s one Levi wins
Yeah, I just feel like his make or break style will always stop him from winning a title.
No, not yet. He’s closing the gap, though. Beating Robb at B1Gs would close the gap even further.
He clearly has the tools, and he is in a small group of legitimate contenders right now as a true freshman, which is remarkable in itself. I just hesitate to call him the favorite quite yet, but we'll see. I would be more shocked if he never wins an NCAA title than if he wins this year as an 18 year old freshman, which is not something anyone can ever say about very many wrestlers.
My answer would be "yep, he's capable of winning it all", but it is far easier for me to say that than it is for young Haines to do it. I must admit, I'm impressed with his mental game, and he seems to be having fun out there. Both bode well for time under the bright lights in Ann Arbor or Tulsa. I've seen physically gifted wrestlers wilt under those same lights.
Looking at the rankings, I'm more than impressed with this weight class (157) than I was before looking at the detail. There's plenty of talent there, so whomever wins the title will certainly have earned it.
Starting with Big Ten's, I believe there with be at least 10 qualifiers allocated to the Big Ten, and it would be more if Carr had 8 bouts under his belt. Unlikely as he's sitting on 3. Without looking at yesterdays matches yet, a quick perusal has the seeds something like; 1-Robb, 2-Haines, 3-Coleman, 4-Saldate, 5-Lewan, 6-Chumbley, 7-Carr, 8-Siebrecht, 9-Model, 10-Gilcher, 11-Gallagher, 12-Lee. This is not my final guess as there's more wrestling to be had, but my point is that the Big Ten has a talented group at 157, though as you'll see below it pales a little to the talent at NCAA's. Winning against a Carr/Siebrecht/Chumbley level guy in quarters is certainly doable, and I'd call a semi vs Coleman close to a toss-up, with Robb still the favorite. Haines, the coaches and we the fans will get a real good idea where Haines stacks up.
Then there's the NCAA's. Again, 157 is pretty impressive;
Robb is undefeated
Franek has 1 loss, to Robb
O'Conner is undefeated
Humphreys is undefeated
Andonian is undefeated
Coleman has 3 losses, two of them to Robb and Franek
Scott has 5 losses, two to Robb, one to Andonian and one to Humphreys among them
Haines has one loss, to Zerban in SV early in the season
That's a really strong top tier, and frankly, most are not Big Ten guys. All that means is that the talent pool gets significantly better overall when reaching the NCAA Championships, which isn't the case in all weight classes. The group at 157 contains 5 past All-Americans, with one being a two-timer. Not sure where to say he fits on paper, we'll all know more after Big Tens.
Looking at the rankings, I'm more than impressed with this weight class (157) than I was before looking at the detail. There's plenty of talent there, so whomever wins the title will certainly have earned it.
Starting with Big Ten's, I believe there with be at least 10 qualifiers allocated to the Big Ten, and it would be more if Carr had 8 bouts under his belt. Unlikely as he's sitting on 3. Without looking at yesterdays matches yet, a quick perusal has the seeds something like; 1-Robb, 2-Haines, 3-Coleman, 4-Saldate, 5-Lewan, 6-Chumbley, 7-Carr, 8-Siebrecht, 9-Model, 10-Gilcher, 11-Gallagher, 12-Lee. This is not my final guess as there's more wrestling to be had, but my point is that the Big Ten has a talented group at 157, though as you'll see below it pales a little to the talent at NCAA's. Winning against a Carr/Siebrecht/Chumbley level guy in quarters is certainly doable, and I'd call a semi vs Coleman close to a toss-up, with Robb still the favorite. Haines, the coaches and we the fans will get a real good idea where Haines stacks up.
Then there's the NCAA's. Again, 157 is pretty impressive;
Robb is undefeated
Franek has 1 loss, to Robb
O'Conner is undefeated
Humphreys is undefeated
Andonian is undefeated
Coleman has 3 losses, two of them to Robb and Franek
Scott has 5 losses, two to Robb, one to Andonian and one to Humphreys among them
Haines has one loss, to Zerban in SV early in the season
That's a really strong top tier, and frankly, most are not Big Ten guys. All that means is that the talent pool gets significantly better overall when reaching the NCAA Championships, which isn't the case in all weight classes. The group at 157 contains 5 past All-Americans, with one being a two-timer. Not sure where to say he fits on paper, we'll all know more after Big Tens.
Using Intermat rankings today, Haines would be 3 in B10's. He would have Clark, Saldate, Gilcher, Carr, Model and Coleman on his side of the bracket. Who knows how it really gets seeded but 157 isn't the easy out that people think. There are definitely some hurdles in that field.
157 isn't an easy out (no weight at NCAAs is, to be honest), but what makes it viable for Haines is that there is no one like Spencer or Yanni sitting at the top roadblocking everyone else as a nearly unbeatable favorite. The guys listed as contenders above (i.e. Robb, Andonian, O'Connor, etc.) are all very good, but there is no one dominant guy atop it all where you think there's no chance in hell Levi can beat him. 165 OTOH has 3 or 4 of those guys, so Facundo's path is a hell of a lot trickier.
165 is interesting. The B10 is top heavy. Only the top 8 are ranked currently so essentially, they all get a first round bye. Facundo would have Kharchla and Amine on his side. That is a tough path to a finals. If rankings hold pretty true Facundo is sitting in a bad spot right now. He would get O'Toole in round 3. It would be nice to go in at 6 or 7 versus 8. Although, Monday or Carr isn't much better.
Haines is already great and he's only going to get better. He is still growing into this year, but I would pump the breaks on the "is he a favorite" type conversations, just yet.
We really won't know much more than he is squarely in the AA field at this point in time. Lewan is not Robb, Andonian or O'Conner by any stretch.
As a true freshman no matter how you measure it, Levi is still getting his sea legs under him. Let's hope he gets a go at Robb in Bigs. If he wins or loses by less than 3 points I think he has a chance at Nationals.
You can just see Levi's continuing development each time out. I don't believe that there is anyone else in the country getting better each week, like Levi at 157.
I really wish he had a go at Humphries earlier in the year but the Claw kept it to a 3-6 decision which certainly is encouraging.
We really won't know much more than he is squarely in the AA field at this point in time. Lewan is not Robb, Andonian or O'Conner by any stretch.
As a true freshman no matter how you measure it, Levi is still getting his sea legs under him. Let's hope he gets a go at Robb in Bigs. If he wins or loses by less than 3 points I think he has a chance at Nationals.
You can just see Levi's continuing development each time out. I don't believe that there is anyone else in the country getting better each week, like Levi at 157.
I really wish he had a go at Humphries earlier in the year but the Claw kept it to a 3-6 decision which certainly is encouraging.
Well, Amine and Kharchla are his two signature top 10 victories so far, so maybe it's not that bad. LOL.
Levi will get the 2 seed at B10s if he wins out. Coleman is ranked higher but has 2 conference losses, including to Model.
Saldate is undefeated in Big 10 duals but has losses to Gilcher and Robb in tournaments. He faces Gilcher this Friday. If he beats him how do you think they seed it? Do they penalize Levi for not wrestling him?
I'd rather Levi get the 3 to be honest. Get warmed up with a 14 seed and bonus point potential.
Prior to conference expansion, B10 seeding was primarily conference duals, with tournament matches against B10 opponents being more of a tie-breaker.
With expansion, that line has been blurred, as it should be. Saldate's 2 losses are still 2 losses.
Non-zero for sure. I continue to be not impressed at all by Robb as a 1 seed (either at B1Gs or NCAAs). If Haines wins B1Gs, then we can talk about O’Connor.
I think he is definitely Levi’s toughest matchup. He’s very good defensively and super strong. Won a national title 2 years ago so he knows how to handle the grind of multiple weigh-ins and brutal matches over 3 days. I think Levi can absolutely go with him but at this point O’Connor has to be the favorite
Andonian is everyone’s toughest matchup because the way he wrestles, no one is safe. LOL.
IMHO, Levi is one of many high AA contenders but I wish he had wrestled more high level opponents. Lewan was a good test, but has lost now to Siebrecht, Saldate and Coleman this year. The coaches wouldn’t have pulled his redshirt if they didn’t think he was AA material. But calling him a potential favorite seems a bit much to me right now given his schedule.
Yeah, that’s the other tail of the distribution with him. You never know what’s coming. LOL.
I know the transitive property doesn’t work in wrestling but looking at results from other top competitors and it helps Levi’s case. Just last night Robb barely beat Gallagher and we all know what Levi did to him. Model beat Coleman and Levi majored Model. I know those results don’t mean much in regards to how Levi would do against Robb and Coleman but it is a data point in Levi’s favor. His win against Siebrecht seems to be getting better as the season goes on as well. Levi has handled everyone put in front of him after his slip up at the beginning of the season and has done so in a myriad of ways winning both very tight defensive battles and also by putting up a ton of points against top level wrestlers. I think his consistency especially as a very young true freshman might be the main thing I look at when putting him in the discussion as a favorite at 157. Most guys his age have up and down matches where even if they are winning you are never quite sure what you are going to get. This isn’t the case with Levi at all. He looks like an upperclassman with how he competes week in and week out. I of course wish he would have had the opportunity to wrestle more guys in the top 10 during the season but in my eyes he’s passed every test and continues to get better every time out. With his skill, competitiveness, composure, and the PSU staff coming up with game plans I think he can absolutely beat everyone at the weight. My only question is if he can string 4 win’s together in a row against the very best. I personally think he can. This second, gun to my head, I think he makes the finals but loses to O’Connor for the title
