Michigan match thread - Fri, Jan 19

[donboy6499]

I mean, Ragusin is really good, too. I'm picking Nagao, but I wouldn't be shocked if Ragusin pulled off an upset. He's been on the cusp of AA the last two years and is also ranked in the top 10 right now.

My issue with picking Ragusin to win isn't that it is too great an upset to happen, it's that there's no argument that can be made to pick him. But several (all) can be made to say Nagao is the better wrestler.

Better H2H against common, Nagao better record
Nagao is 1 for 1 AA, Ragusin is 0 for 2

They both have a 3rd at B10, but Nagao finished higher in the same bracket.

This would be an upset, not huge though, if Ragusin were to win.

 

[Lyons212]

MM is two years younger than KOT - he won a Wisconsin State Title at 138 his So year in HS, the same year (2020) that KOT won the 160 Title for the same HS (high school was coached by Mesenbrink's dad btw). There is no evidence that the two ever wrestled against each other in their HS years or since. No idea what you're talking about with:

They most certainly have wrestled in practice during high school or when KOT came home over the summer or Christmas. I wrestled our 185 guy in practice and I was wrestling 155.

 

[Split shot]

Pre match weigh-ins. This may be as good of a place as any to ask a question I have wondered about. I often hear various people (some on this board) talking about what weight wrestlers weighed in at. Byers does this often. How does one come by this information. Is it posted somewhere, is it someone who has access to the weigh in sheet? Who is granted access to this information and how do they get this access. It is discussed so much that it almost seems like common knowledge. inquiring minds want to know!!

 

[WexfordWarrior]

Pre match weigh-ins. This may be as good of a place as any to ask a question I have wondered about. I often hear various people (some on this board) talking about what weight wrestlers weighed in at. Byers does this often. How does one come by this information. Is it posted somewhere, is it someone who has access to the weigh in sheet? Who is granted access to this information and how do they get this access. It is discussed so much that it almost seems like common knowledge. inquiring minds want to know!!

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Then you have no idea of how the dynamics of high school sports work. LOL.

What the hell are you talking about - I wrestled in high school on a team that had a multi-time state champion who would go on to be a multi-time NCAA AA, an NCAA Champion and become a member of the USA National Team. 138 pounders do not wrestle against 160 pounders "in the room". They were radically different in age (2 years is a lot in HS) and weight class. There is zero evidence that KOT routinely wrestled, and kicked MM's ass. MM Dad coached the team they both were on - no way he is putting his SO son up 3 weight classes every day in practice against a SR and the nation's #1 Ranked 160 lber. Just did not happen. (BTW, KOT was a 4-timer in high school - so he already had 3 State Titles and was ranked the #1 national prospect at his weight at the time you're suggesting MM's father was making his much younger, and lighter, son wrestle KOT every day in practice).

 

[Random4598375]

What the hell are you talking about - I wrestled in high school on a team that had a multi-time state champion who would go on to be a multi-time NCAA AA, an NCAA Champion and become a member of the USA National Team. 138 pounders do not wrestle against 160 pounders "in the room". They were radically different in age (2 years is a lot in HS) and weight class. There is zero evidence that KOT routinely wrestled, and kicked MM's ass. MM Dad coached the team they both were on - no way he is putting his SO son up 3 weight classes every day in practice against a SR and the nation's #1 Ranked 160 lber. Just did not happen. (BTW, KOT was a 4-timer in high school - so he already had 3 State Titles and was ranked the #1 national prospect at his weight at the time you're suggesting MM's father was making his much younger, and lighter, son wrestle KOT every day in practice).

I rest my case.

 

[js8793]

What the hell are you talking about - I wrestled in high school on a team that had a multi-time state champion who would go on to be a multi-time NCAA AA, an NCAA Champion and become a member of the USA National Team. 138 pounders do not wrestle against 160 pounders "in the room". They were radically different in age (2 years is a lot in HS) and weight class. There is zero evidence that KOT routinely wrestled, and kicked MM's ass. MM Dad coached the team they both were on - no way he is putting his SO son up 3 weight classes every day in practice against a SR and the nation's #1 Ranked 160 lber. Just did not happen. (BTW, KOT was a 4-timer in high school - so he already had 3 State Titles and was ranked the #1 national prospect at his weight at the time you're suggesting MM's father was making his much younger, and lighter, son wrestle KOT every day in practice).

lol

our 138 was one of my main partners when i wrestled 160.

i've missed you

 

[jmadden1998]

lol

our 138 was one of my main partners when i wrestled 160.

i've missed you

 

[El-Jefe]

I rest my case.

Lol, challenge Bushwood, get a dissertation.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Then you have no idea of how the dynamics of high school sports work. LOL.

Personally, I think the "big brother" aspect is more of an advantage for Mitchell than it is for Keegan. I had both an older brother and a twin. When I wrestled my older brother there was less pressure and I felt I wrestled better because of I was expected to lose anyway . Against my twin who I routinely beat, I always wrestled tight and wrestled not to lose. Our practices always ended with coach putting us against each other and he called it "bragging rights at the dinner table". Lol. Anyway, if I were to choose which position I'd rather be in mentally, I take Mitchell's over Keegans who will be under more pressure to win another title against someone he's expected to beat.

 

[johnstownsteel]

They most certainly have wrestled in practice during high school or when KOT came home over the summer or Christmas. I wrestled our 185 guy in practice and I was wrestling 155.

Mitchell said in an interview that his main partners were Aedon Sinclair, Ben and his dad. You're probably right though he just didn't mention Keegan.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

lol

our 138 was one of my main partners when i wrestled 160.

i've missed you

You must have had a shitty room around 138.... and 138 pounder was an elite wrestler who had no one to Challenge him at his weight.

 

[js8793]

Mitchell said in an interview that his main partners were Aedon Sinclair, Ben and his dad. You're probably right though he just didn't mention Keegan.

woah woah woah Aedon Sinclair? no way MM would ever be allowed to wrestle someone that big!

 

[johnstownsteel]

woah woah woah Aedon Sinclair? no way MM would ever be allowed to wrestle someone that big!

Lol. Well... that's what he said.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Personally, I think the "big brother" aspect is more of an advantage for Mitchell than it is for Keegan. I had both an older brother and a twin. When I wrestled my older brother there was less pressure and I felt I wrestled better because of I was expected to lose anyway . Against my twin who I routinely beat, I always wrestled tight and wrestled not to lose. Our practices always ended with coach putting us against each other and he called it "bragging rights at the dinner table". Lol. Anyway, if I were to choose which position I'd rather be in mentally, I take Mitchell's over Keegans who will be under more pressure to win another title against someone he's expected to beat.

Not only that, but somebody he only really knew as a much lighter underclassman..... not a grown-ass man at the same weight class! Saying you look at yourself as a skinny, still growing 15 year old relative to a much heavier graduating SR the same way you look at yourself as a grown-ass man against another adult college competitor at your same weight class is beyond absurd and ridiculous - you don't perform on the World Stage against International elite competition the way Mitchell has if you don't have supreme confidence in your abilities and belief in yourself.

 

[PSUwrestling]

So I get on the Michigan thread only to find the fur flying about weather or not KOT and MM wrestled "in the room" in high school. And whose 138 was shitty. Meanwhile Flo in attempt make Friday seem like a real match gave PSU a 8-2 win.

 

[Random4598375]

So I get on the Michigan thread only to find the fur flying about weather or not KOT and MM wrestled "in the room" in high school. And whose 138 was shitty. Meanwhile Flo in attempt make Friday seem like a real match gave PSU a 8-2 win.

8-2 is a real match? Is that where we are now? LOL.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

woah woah woah Aedon Sinclair? no way MM would ever be allowed to wrestle someone that big!

You're such an eff'ing moron - you do realize that Aedon Sinclair wrestled at/near Mesenbrink's weight-class as a freshman and sophomore (Mesenbrink is 2 years older than him). This is excerpted from a WIN article published late last year:

Sinclair said he started training under Askren after his freshman year when he lost in a super sectional to Mitchell Mesenbrink — a former state champ from Arrowhead High School in Wisconsin who will compete this year at Penn State.

Here's a HOTLINK to the article.

Your notion that just because Sinclair is a 197 prospect that means he wrestled this weight all 4 years of high school is more of your ridiculous nonsense.... Mesenbrink wrestled Sinclair as a Wisconsin HS JR and SR when Sinclair was a FR and SO... and they did wrestle in the same weight classes genius.

 

[SUPERTODD]

Lol, challenge Bushwood, get a dissertation.

What the **** is that dude so angry about all of the time? His life must be the worst.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

You're such an eff'ing moron - you do realize that Aedon Sinclair wrestled in Mesenbrink's weight-class as a freshman and sophomore (Mesenbrink is 2 years older than him). This is excerpted from a WIN article published late last year:



Here's a HOTLINK to the article.

Your notion that just because Sinclair is a 197 prospect that means he wrestled this weight all 4 years of high school is more of your ridiculous nonsense.... Mesenbrink wrestled Sinclair as a Wisconsin HS JR and SR when Sinclair was a FR and SO... and they did wrestle in the same weight classes genius.

Further BTW...., Mesenbrink won the Wisconsin State Title at 138 in 2020 (the last year KOT was on the team with MM) - Sinclair was a FR in 2021 and lost to Mesenbrink (a JR at the time) in the 152 lb Super Sectionals. Mesenbrink would go on to win the 2021 Wisconsin State Title at 152. Mesenbrink would win at 152 his SR year (2022) as well - Sinclair won his first Wisconsin State Title his SO year (2022) at 170.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I think there is little doubt KOT and Mitch have tossed it around to some extent at AWA. Probably because KOT didn't have others at his level to practice with as much, and I suspect both Ben's teaching and some exposure to KJ eegan helped in his meteoric development. Did they ever meet full speed where it mattered, I don't believe so, nor was this close to happening.

If anything Mitch may be at an advantage just getting the feel for Keegan's talent, speed and movement granted up a couple of weights.

Askren's comments this week although non committal and non biased for either kid, clearly indicated he thought this would be competitive. He could have easily poisoned Mitch as early Carter and not yet developed enough for facing Keegan, but he clearly did not tread there at all.

The hints were MM needs to be a little more selective on his shots and we should see less volume and better quality as Keegan's defense, countering, motor and scrambling are elite.

Likewise Ben highlighted Mitch's aggressiveness, scrambling and motor/gas tank as elite as well.

He thought both will get out from bottom, and ultimately the match will come down to scrambling. I don't know about you but given Keegan's petigree and where he is in his career, I translate this to a glowing endorsement for MM, at least in terms of answering the question ' is he ready to compete at this level'? Definitely!!!

It could so prove that Mitch is a different animal than Keegan hasn't quite seen before, even with the several matches with David Carr.

As we blaze through the rest of the Big dual season I will not be one bit surprised to see Mitch exit the Bigs as a champion, and the #2 seed nationally.

I love David Carr, but I do think that KOT is better, and I think in time we will see Mitchell is better/different than Carr as well. Good times.

 

[El-Jefe]

What the **** is that dude so angry about all of the time? His life must be the worst.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I think there is little doubt KOT and Mitch have tossed it around to some extent at AWA. Probably because KOT didn't have others at his level to practice with as much, and I suspect both Ben's teaching and some exposure to KJ eegan helped in his meteoric development. Did they ever meet full speed where it mattered, I don't believe so, nor was this close to happening.

If anything Mitch may be at an advantage just getting the feel for Keegan's talent, speed and movement granted up a couple of weights.

Askren's comments this week although non committal and non biased for either kid, clearly indicated he thought this would be competitive. He could have easily poisoned Mitch as early Carter and not yet developed enough for facing Keegan, but he clearly did not tread there at all.

The hints were MM needs to be a little more selective on his shots and we should see less volume and better quality as Keegan's defense, countering, motor and scrambling are elite.

Likewise Ben highlighted Mitch's aggressiveness, scrambling and motor/gas tank as elite as well.

He thought both will get out from bottom, and ultimately the match will come down to scrambling. I don't know about you but given Keegan's petigree and where he is in his career, I translate this to a glowing endorsement for MM, at least in terms of answering the question ' is he ready to compete at this level'? Definitely!!!

It could so prove that Mitch is a different animal than Keegan hasn't quite seen before, even with the several matches with David Carr.

As we blaze through the rest of the Big dual season I will not be one bit surprised to see Mitch exit the Bigs as a champion, and the #2 seed nationally.

I love David Carr, but I do think that KOT is better, and I think in time we will see Mitchell is better/different than Carr as well. Good times.

Don't disagree that they may have rolled around in freestyle at national / international events, but again, there is zero evidence that KOT routinely beats up on MM which is the "psychological barrier" the OP said MM would need to overcome.

 

[dicemen99]

Gomez should be the favorite.

Ragusin is just a "pay attention to me" pick.

Yup. I've been on this thread and other ones, lol, saying this is not going to be a cakewalk and I think we drop 3 matches, or more

But take a look at who Aaron Nagao has lost to in his entire career after the first couple of weeks of said career. There is nobody on that list that is not a past or future NC. Dylan Ragusin is pretty good but he's not ever getting on THAT list.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

It could be closer than people expect, but a thrashing is also possible.

Remember the hype for the 2022 dual? And then Michigan just didn’t show up.

Who knows what tomorrow has in store. All I really expect is that lineups will not be quite what everyone expects.

Don't I know it.

 

[matter7172]

What the hell are you talking about - I wrestled in high school on a team that had a multi-time state champion who would go on to be a multi-time NCAA AA, an NCAA Champion and become a member of the USA National Team. 138 pounders do not wrestle against 160 pounders "in the room". They were radically different in age (2 years is a lot in HS) and weight class. There is zero evidence that KOT routinely wrestled, and kicked MM's ass. MM Dad coached the team they both were on - no way he is putting his SO son up 3 weight classes every day in practice against a SR and the nation's #1 Ranked 160 lber. Just did not happen. (BTW, KOT was a 4-timer in high school - so he already had 3 State Titles and was ranked the #1 national prospect at his weight at the time you're suggesting MM's father was making his much younger, and lighter, son wrestle KOT every day in practice).

Idk. I (165 pounds) wrestled our two-time (4th and 2nd) AAA PA placewinnner 240 pound heavyweight every day in practice my senior year; when I was wrestling 167 in college often went against our 190 pounder (who was second in our large conference - the finalists in my weight class went 2nd and 4th at D3 nationals); and I wrestled that same heavyweight over Christmas break my freshman and sophomore years of college. But, apparently, it never happened.

 

[7brwnpsu]

I Love you man!

 

[7brwnpsu]

Personally, I think the "big brother" aspect is more of an advantage for Mitchell than it is for Keegan. I had both an older brother and a twin. When I wrestled my older brother there was less pressure and I felt I wrestled better because of I was expected to lose anyway . Against my twin who I routinely beat, I always wrestled tight and wrestled not to lose. Our practices always ended with coach putting us against each other and he called it "bragging rights at the dinner table". Lol. Anyway, if I were to choose which position I'd rather be in mentally, I take Mitchell's over Keegans who will be under more pressure to win another title against someone he's expected to beat.

I thought you had a twin sister! 😆

 

[dbldoofus]

Does Cael ever "train through" a weekend with 2 matches? I don't recall.

 

[Petch]

His opponents will be run run run run run running away.

This type of team happens Once in a lifetime. This Friday they’ll be Burning down the house!

 

[Sett1997]

Mitchell “The Rattlesnake” Messenbrink…….I suppose it could catch on👎

Just " the snake" flows better.
Also Mitch, not Mitchell

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I think there is little doubt KOT and Mitch have tossed it around to some extent at AWA. Probably because KOT didn't have others at his level to practice with as much, and I suspect both Ben's teaching and some exposure to KJ eegan helped in his meteoric development. Did they ever meet full speed where it mattered, I don't believe so, nor was this close to happening.

If anything Mitch may be at an advantage just getting the feel for Keegan's talent, speed and movement granted up a couple of weights.

Askren's comments this week although non committal and non biased for either kid, clearly indicated he thought this would be competitive. He could have easily poisoned Mitch as early Carter and not yet developed enough for facing Keegan, but he clearly did not tread there at all.

The hints were MM needs to be a little more selective on his shots and we should see less volume and better quality as Keegan's defense, countering, motor and scrambling are elite.

Likewise Ben highlighted Mitch's aggressiveness, scrambling and motor/gas tank as elite as well.

He thought both will get out from bottom, and ultimately the match will come down to scrambling. I don't know about you but given Keegan's petigree and where he is in his career, I translate this to a glowing endorsement for MM, at least in terms of answering the question ' is he ready to compete at this level'? Definitely!!!

It could so prove that Mitch is a different animal than Keegan hasn't quite seen before, even with the several matches with David Carr.

As we blaze through the rest of the Big dual season I will not be one bit surprised to see Mitch exit the Bigs as a champion, and the #2 seed nationally.

I love David Carr, but I do think that KOT is better, and I think in time we will see Mitchell is better/different than Carr as well. Good times.

I will be unpleasantly surprised if KOT ever beats Carr again. Carr is guilty of assuming way too much that third match last year and losing focus. It won't happen again imo. Carr is most vulnerable against guys who won't wrestle him and stall him out which is not KOT and certainly not MM. I'm honestly a bit scared for David against MM because of the pace factor. I know for a fact KOT and MM have went at it and it is very competitive at least in a live practice situation. Real matches are a different animal but Jr Worlds showed MM isn't exactly scared of big moments.

 

[PD4thespawn]

Just " the snake" flows better.
Also Mitch, not Mitchell

Come on guys,..... Clark. Clark Kent without glasses, Superman.

 

[PD4thespawn]

I will be unpleasantly surprised if KOT ever beats Carr again. Carr is guilty of assuming way too much that third match last year and losing focus. It won't happen again imo. Carr is most vulnerable against guys who won't wrestle him and stall him out which is not KOT and certainly not MM. I'm honestly a bit scared for David against MM because of the pace factor. I know for a fact KOT and MM have went at it and it is very competitive at least in a live practice situation. Real matches are a different animal but Jr Worlds showed MM isn't exactly scared of big moments.

Interested to know your view on the Kasak match-up with Michigan. I think he has a good chance if he can keep out of the upper body stuff, at least until the 3rd period.

 

[316_Lyons]

You must have had a shitty room around 138.... and 138 pounder was an elite wrestler who had no one to Challenge him at his weight.

Uhhh, that's the overwhelming majority of high school teams. Heck, most can't even field full JV teams. As a 140 lber, I routinely had 130 - 171 lbers in my round robin group.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I love me some Austin Gomez and believe he will win this weight class IF he is healthy. I spent a ton of time with him when he was injured and retired as a Cyclone and he is a first class kid all of the way. I'm always worried about him getting another brain injury and the rest of his body is pretty beat up too. Kasak sure looks the part of a good one, but Gomez should beat him if he is feeling himself. gomez is more than just an upper body guy as he has really good single leg attacks as well and isn't afraid to attack from multiple positions. Kasak just seems to be a solid young man with a bright future. I don't expect a blow out but a 7-2 or 8-3 type of score. It might be the only match meatchicken wins unless 125 can go that way from some riding skills and old man savy. I never count out a PSU youngster as they come through more often than not. It is also rare for Cael to pull a shirt unless he really thinks a kid can score points at Nationals.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Per some Michigan fans on Facebook, Gomez is down in Mexico this weekend.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Per some Michigan fans on Facebook, Gomez is down in Mexico this weekend.

Yea, I saw something about him attending a qualifier for the Mexico Olympic Team.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

lol

our 138 was one of my main partners when i wrestled 160.

i've missed you

I've heard of "punching down" but wrestling down is a new one.

 

[PSUwrestling]

Per some Michigan fans on Facebook, Gomez is down in Mexico this weekend.

Re watched this match this morning. Davis has the Nick Lee intensity (maybe a tiny bit more 😲 ) plus some Gilman swagger. Being a four time state champ with four team titles is a thing when comes to confidence and being a killer. He faces a real challenge today but I think he sets the pace and drags DeAugustino into deep waters. If Gomez doesn't show. A shutout is in the works.