Noteworthy Results & Goldfish Games: Week of 1/6 - 1/9

[js8793]

Under what statistical category was he the better folksyle wrestler?

Same number of championships. Same number of finals. Nolf scored a ton more bonus points and total points at NCAAs.

Nolf had more wins.
Nolf had fewer losses.
Nolf out pinned him 60-7.

What possible measure could make a legitimate argument that Snyder was a better FOLKSTYLE wrestler than Nolf?

you've missed the whole point. under zero statistical categories because they don't tell the whole story. i know he's better because the skills he used to beat all time greats Gazyumov and Gadisov transfer to folkstyle. and his only loss at heavyweight was to a guy 50 lbs heavier a few days after he got home from yarygin, the toughest tournament in the world. he then beat him 2 times in a row.

that's my opinion. lb for lb snyder was the better wrestler.

 

[nitlion6]

yes you're right this whole thing went way off the rails. the point i wanted to make is that the normal goat discussion is boring and it's more fun to debate who is a purely better wrestler at their peak, which is totally subjective. that's the discussion i wanted to have.

why do you think nolf is better or not? for me, i think nolf is better on their feet. both score with ease offensively, but we don't see spencer counter the same way. nolf is also a better pinner and overall more dangerous from neutral. but i think spencer is far better on top. and the gap between them on the mat is bigger than the gap between them on their feet, so spencer gets the edge.

does anyone want to give an alternative read? what about nolf's skills elevates him over spencer? not a facetious question.

Spencer is freaking great, very good on his feet and brutal on top. Nolf is an artist who can be brutal. "Watch me curb stomp Micah from the top position while wrestling on one leg. Taylor once described Nolf's freshman year as Jekyll and Hyde. Nolf would spend 3 days getting shit stomped and all of a sudden Nolf would do some weird shit and just embarrass everybody. Then the same thing would happen. Taylor kind of confronted Nolf asking what are you doing. Nolf told him i am trying to see how this works and once i get it i start making u look bad. Taylor learned that was Nolf being an artist and just let him go.
Spencer's general lack of elite conditioning causes me to believe Nolf would have a better than average shot at beating a like sized Spencer.

 

[mcpat]

you've missed the whole point. under zero statistical categories because they don't tell the whole story. i know he's better because the skills he used to beat all time greats Gazyumov and Gadisov transfer to folkstyle. and his only loss at heavyweight was to a guy 50 lbs heavier a few days after he got home from yarygin, the toughest tournament in the world. he then beat him 2 times in a row.

that's my opinion. lb for lb snyder was the better wrestler.

So you get to ignore his 4 losses at 197, his 32 fewer wins, his 53 fewer falls, his less dominance overall, his less impressive runs at NCAAs but boost him over Nolf in folkstyle solely on the basis of:

1) his freestyle career; and
2) a loss.

Okay. I guess we’re done with this argument. We’re not just on different pages, we’re reading different books.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

point out all the foolish shit ... others say

Someone may have the combination of 1) an unrealistic expectation to read largely wise musings on a mostly anonymous wrestling board of another fanbase; and 2) way more time and energy than I have.

In my experience rarely does a man's beliefs remain constant over their lifetime and more rarely do anonymous wrestling board posters openly admit when they see and understand the other's point-of-view (let alone try to work to resolve in some mutual consensus). I've accepted that's simply the nature of the beast.

 

[mcpat]

and more rarely do anonymous wrestling board posters openly admit when they see and understand the other's point-of-view (let alone try to work to resolve in some mutual consensus). I've accepted that's simply the nature of the beast.

I disagree.

 

[PAgeologist]

I think this conversation has led to this: How many goats will fit in your anus? You guys are just not causing this thread to go off the rails yet.

Doesn't that require a ram?

 

[amattaro]

Spencer gave up more back points yesterday than Nolf did his entire career.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

keep crying NERD

Bonus points for the use of Nerd. This round goes to @js8793. He rocked the champ with that right cross

 

[johnstownsteel]

keep crying NERD

It's "Ogre" you asshole...

 

[El-Jefe]

It's "Ogre" you asshole...

 

[manilion]

Spencer gave up more back points yesterday than Nolf did his entire career.

Lee wrestles in a weak weight class. Has for the last few years. He is great but his lack of competition makes it easy to argue against being one of the greatest.

 

[Waxman1607]

I can't believe I wasted my valuable time reading this thread. Lol. Thanks for all the noteworthy results.

 

[a_mshaffer]

College football's eye test has always been more important than results.
Penn State winning the 87 title over Miami only because Penn State beat Miami has pissed off the college football hierarchy ever since.

Go Ray Isom!!

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Spencer gave up more back points yesterday than Nolf did his entire career.

Now that was a funny one, well done.

 

[nitlion6]

Go Ray Isom!!

Michael Irvin still wakes up from that game's nightmares crying and screaming "noooo Raaay don't hit me so hard."

 

[Waxman1607]

Go Ray Isom!!

Or Pete Giftopoulos!!

 

[horraybeer]

yes you're right this whole thing went way off the rails. the point i wanted to make is that the normal goat discussion is boring and it's more fun to debate who is a purely better wrestler at their peak, which is totally subjective. that's the discussion i wanted to have.

why do you think nolf is better or not? for me, i think nolf is better on their feet. both score with ease offensively, but we don't see spencer counter the same way. nolf is also a better pinner and overall more dangerous from neutral. but i think spencer is far better on top. and the gap between them on the mat is bigger than the gap between them on their feet, so spencer gets the edge.

does anyone want to give an alternative read? what about nolf's skills elevates him over spencer? not a facetious question.

Peak Terry Brands makes SLee want to quit wrestling in the 2nd period.

 

[AgSurfer]

Ok time to put this discussion to rest once and for all. What is tougher, winning an NCAA title or winning an Olympic Gold medal? I’m sure everyone will agree that winning an Olympic Gold is much harder. Look at the percentage of NCAA champions who have won Gold. Not many.

So who has the most Olympic wins in wrestling? Milo of Croton - 6 time Olympic champion.

Q.E.D. - case closed.

Time for some football.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Milo of Croton

Didn't he wrestle for the Spartans?

 

[7brwnpsu]

it's ok. the GOAT at any weight sits on a chair in our corner every match.

Bonnie Epstein???

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Nolf won 87 matches by fall or tech fall.

Spencer has 85 wins.

Argue with these guys. They aren't updating.

Even w/ the seven from this season, it isn't 117 and it never will be.

Spencer Lee

hawkeyesports.com

Bottom line, in hypothetical where you can pick a team with Nolf or Lee; you take Nolf.

More physically resiliant, more wins, more pins.,

 

[Cowbell Man]

Aaron could have had a shot at 5 X B1G champ before he lost to Amine in the finals last year.

Wait…..does that mean he will qualify for 5 big ten tournaments??? I can barely wrap my head around that.

 

[82bordeaux]

Didn't he wrestle for the Spartans?

He was Superman's dad ya dummy.

 

[SJP80]

I can't believe I wasted my valuable time reading this thread. Lol. Thanks for all the noteworthy results.

Hint: If you block JS8793 your thread reading time will be more enjoyable and efficient

 

[82bordeaux]

Hint: If you block JS8793 your thread reading time will be more enjoyable and efficient

Heck, he's fine. We just found out he has a little crush on Spencer. It has to be tough to have to hang your hat on one guy.
How many debates have we had on here about ranking the greatest PSU wrestlers? In two years we will have 8-10 guys in the mix.

 

[WexfordWarrior]

Heck, he's fine. We just found out he has a little crush on Spencer. It has to be tough to have to hang your hat on one guy.
How many debates have we had on here about ranking the greatest PSU wrestlers? In two years we will have 8-10 guys in the mix.

 

[mcpat]

O

Argue with these guys. They aren't updating.

Even w/ the seven from this season, it isn't 117 and it never will be.

Spencer Lee

hawkeyesports.com

Bottom line, in hypothetical where you can pick a team with Nolf or Lee; you take Nolf.

More physically resiliant, more wins, more pins.,

I used wrestlestat; I think I had all his wins thus far.

 

[zzs006]

Heck, he's fine. We just found out he has a little crush on Spencer. It has to be tough to have to hang your hat on one guy.
How many debates have we had on here about ranking the greatest PSU wrestlers? In two years we will have 8-10 guys in the mix.

The takeaway I got was that JS actually loves Snyder and hates Nolf. Not sure how anyone can hate Nolf though. Of all the PSU greats he has been my favorite to watch

 

[js8793]

The takeaway I got was that JS actually loves Snyder and hates Nolf. Not sure how anyone can hate Nolf though. Of all the PSU greats he has been my favorite to watch

ironically, i find snyder boring and nolf is an all time fav. i just think snyder is better. that's all. and i love to argue of course.

 

[zzs006]

ironically, i find snyder boring and nolf is an all time fav. i just think snyder is better. that's all. and i love to argue of course.

I actually really enjoy having you over here. You really know wrestling and will call out Iowa as much as PSU. Hope you stick around. I know arguing 20 against 1 can get old. That’s why I only post on HR occasionally. I can only handle so many idiotic takes at a time

 

[PSUbluTX]

Hint: If you block JS8793 your thread reading time will be more enjoyable and efficient

Nah, @js8793 is an asset to this board for lots of reasons. Passionate, insightful, funny, and most importantly for a Hawkeye fan, rational. 😜He has to be in the discussion for GOAT Hawk fan poster on BWI, especially given how his performance here has been significantly handicapped by his fan affiliation.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Nah, @js8793 is an asset to this board for lots of reasons. Passionate, insightful, funny, and most importantly for a Hawkeye fan, rational. 😜He has to be in the discussion for GOAT Hawk fan poster on BWI, especially given how his performance here has been significantly handicapped by his fan affiliation.

If you wanted to make @jmadden1998 and @Nashville_Hawkeye cry, mission accomplished. 1:40 into this classic clip

 

[82bordeaux]

and i love to argue of course.

 

[82bordeaux]

Nah, @js8793 is an asset to this board for lots of reasons. Passionate, insightful, funny, and most importantly for a Hawkeye fan, rational. 😜He has to be in the discussion for GOAT Hawk fan poster on BWI, especially given how his performance here has been significantly handicapped by his fan affiliation.

But when @js8793 moves to HR...

 

[js8793]

I actually really enjoy having you over here. You really know wrestling and will call out Iowa as much as PSU. Hope you stick around. I know arguing 20 against 1 can get old. That’s why I only post on HR occasionally. I can only handle so many idiotic takes at a time

being outnumbered only makes the fact that i'm right even sweeter my friend.

 

[WexfordWarrior]

being outnumbered only makes the fact that i'm right even sweeter my friend.

 

[PAgeologist]

The takeaway I got was that JS actually loves Snyder and hates Nolf. Not sure how anyone can hate Nolf though. Of all the PSU greats he has been my favorite to watch

You would think he would hate Bo the most since he tormented every Hawkeye he went up against. Well, I guess Nolf did as well.

 

[dicemen99]

being outnumbered only makes the fact that i'm right even sweeter my friend.

 

[District four]

I've seen Nolf lose plenty and there's definitely not a clear eye test difference either. 3rd place finisher James Green beat him soundly his true freshman year for example.

Which position is Nolf better in? I'll give him a slight edge in neutral because I think he's better defensively and has a better tank. But Spencer is far superior on top. He is, imo, the undisputed greatest top wrestler of all time.

Nolf clearly has a better wrestling mind and can do more than just tilt. I'm not saying this just because he wrestled for PSU. As for pure feel and wrestling mentality Nolf and nickel did shit I've never seen. Spencer is good I'll give him that he just doesn't have the imagination of Nolf in my opinion. Records aside of course

 

[District four]

any claim that nolf is in the same stratosphere as kyle snyder as a wrestler is insane homerism. the dude was beating all time greats on the world stage and then coming home, without training folkstyle, and beating elite guys 50 lbs heavier. it's not close.

and trust me, i get it because there's a delusional part of me that thinks spencer is better too haha

Just to be clear once again my comparison between Nolf and Spencer had nothing to do with records or who they lost too. I'm saying Nolf has much more of a wrestling IQ in regards to what he can do on his feet and on the mat. If they both weighed the same I take Nolf all day looooolong