Lets Talk Big 10 Expansion

[ryoder1]

It would be one hell of a pod. The weakness with the pod setup is that you still end up with a pod in the upper Midwest without traditional powers, somewhat mimicking the east west imbalance that we have had for years. The three other pods would be gauntlets.

We would want Penn State in the east pod. And having Florida State in there along with Miami and UNC would make for good competition. If Georgia Tech really is destined for the B10 then put them in the east and take out Miami.

The problem ends up being the midwest/ west pod is light. The midwest/east will just be OSU and Michigan dominating. And you need to more west schools. I'll take Utah and Stanford. Add Texas A&M to beef up the midwest/west. If ND joins then put them in A&M's place.

West
USC
UCLA
Oregon
Washington
Utah
Stanford

Midwest/west
Nebraska
A&M or ND
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Illinois

Midwest/east
OSU
Michigan
MSU
Purdue
Indiana
NW

East
PSU
Rutgers
Maryland
UNC
Florida State
Miami or Ga Tech

 

[PSU4U]

So what have you heard regarding Miami vs Georgia Tech? It’s seems GT is supposedly in demand while Miami is not.

Miami has issues they need to take care of they are not a UCLA where they can come in playing in a rent a center. The presidents have always wanted GT and FOX wants to be in Atlanta so there will be no fight between those two this time like there was for OR. Miami is on the list FOX wants them and has fully explained to Miami they want them it's just that ND UNC GT VA and even NCS are ahead of them at this point.

My info has it the presidents only want 4 teams from the ACC including ND. The big question I have is can they get the top four teams they want ND UNC GT and VA, at this point it would seem to be no. So, teams like Miami and even sPitt will possible come into play. I will say that if UNC would tell the Big 10 that they will come but only if NCS comes along it will get done and FOX would pay for NCS too just to get UNC.

The usual people will scoff at the presidents taking sPitt (even I don't want them) but they have everything those presidents want in a new school except they play in a rent a stadium. If they would financially commit to building their own stadium, they might be a take now. Like Miami they are no UCLA just not the same situation at all. sPitt has plenty of schools in the Big 10 supporting them including PS. They would get plenty of votes, but could they get enough, at that point it would most likely still be an uphill battle. Relationships endowments research and financial stability matter greatly sPitt has all of that.

Back to Miami they are AAU now so that's a plus and that put them over the hump and on the list for the presidents but well down the list from the four mentioned, but I don't see the Big 10 getting all of those teams on their wish list for various reasons. That's when a Miami and a sPitt may rise up the list. There has been chatter about sPitt for a while now. It seems they keep beating on the door. Here's atibit that may be something may be nothing and just and interesting factoid. No team in the country has played ND more times than sPitt.

Now let's talk FSU. FSU would be a take but not with Clemson it seems that the Big 10 has no interest in Clemson at this time. FSU has work to do also like AAU and other things but certainly not unsurmountable things. If an FSU even though they are not AAU if they could bring a ND or a UNC with them, they're in. By the way if UNC or ND leave the league collapses IMO. FSU at this time checks a lot of Boxes and eventually they make it in IMO. Again, if the Big 10 misses on a number of teams, then an FSU becomes instantly way more important.

No one knows how this will all shake out or when at this point there is a chance that the SEC could make a clean sweep of the best schools that the Big 10 wants but that won't stop the Big 10 from finishing their plans on expansion, they will quickly move to plan B. Big 10 expansion plans have been on the table since Delaney was the Commish.

As always come crunch time NEVER TRUST ND.

 

[Ian]

Eliminate all conversation about non AAU schools. It won’t happen as thats the only leverage the school presidents have otherwise they lose their influence.

 

[PSU4U]

There's some truth in that statement. But no matter what anyone else wants the presidents cast the vote and there's a movement afloat for those presidents to remain in control. The thing with OR did not go down well.

 

[LMTLION]

Miami has issues they need to take care of they are not a UCLA where they can come in playing in a rent a center. The presidents have always wanted GT and FOX wants to be in Atlanta so there will be no fight between those two this time like there was for OR. Miami is on the list FOX wants them and has fully explained to Miami they want them it's just that ND UNC GT VA and even NCS are ahead of them at this point.

My info has it the presidents only want 4 teams from the ACC including ND. The big question I have is can they get the top four teams they want ND UNC GT and VA, at this point it would seem to be no. So, teams like Miami and even sPitt will possible come into play. I will say that if UNC would tell the Big 10 that they will come but only if NCS comes along it will get done and FOX would pay for NCS too just to get UNC.

The usual people will scoff at the presidents taking sPitt (even I don't want them) but they have everything those presidents want in a new school except they play in a rent a stadium. If they would financially commit to building their own stadium, they might be a take now. Like Miami they are no UCLA just not the same situation at all. sPitt has plenty of schools in the Big 10 supporting them including PS. They would get plenty of votes, but could they get enough, at that point it would most likely still be an uphill battle. Relationships endowments research and financial stability matter greatly sPitt has all of that.

Back to Miami they are AAU now so that's a plus and that put them over the hump and on the list for the presidents but well down the list from the four mentioned, but I don't see the Big 10 getting all of those teams on their wish list for various reasons. That's when a Miami and a sPitt may rise up the list. There has been chatter about sPitt for a while now. It seems they keep beating on the door. Here's atibit that may be something may be nothing and just and interesting factoid. No team in the country has played ND more times than sPitt.

Now let's talk FSU. FSU would be a take but not with Clemson it seems that the Big 10 has no interest in Clemson at this time. FSU has work to do also like AAU and other things but certainly not unsurmountable things. If an FSU even though they are not AAU if they could bring a ND or a UNC with them, they're in. By the way if UNC or ND leave the league collapses IMO. FSU at this time checks a lot of Boxes and eventually they make it in IMO. Again, if the Big 10 misses on a number of teams, then an FSU becomes instantly way more important.

No one knows how this will all shake out or when at this point there is a chance that the SEC could make a clean sweep of the best schools that the Big 10 wants but that won't stop the Big 10 from finishing their plans on expansion, they will quickly move to plan B. Big 10 expansion plans have been on the table since Delaney was the Commish.

As always come crunch time NEVER TRUST ND.

The reality is that schools like Miami or Pitt cannot build stadiums in these days. They are both in the middle of dense cities. Just think about the city of Pittsburgh and anything in the vicinity of the campus. Where in the world would they even begin to build. And what would the price tag be these days in the city.

 

[PSU4U]

The reality is that schools like Miami or Pitt cannot build stadiums in these days. They are both in the middle of dense cities. Just think about the city of Pittsburgh and anything in the vicinity of the campus. Where in the world would they even begin to build. And what would the price tag be these days in the city.

sPitt actually could have but now maybe you're right the property costs would enormous as displacing people is not cheap.

When their stadium was in the Hill District, they could have bought surrounding property cheaply not so today. Even then they would have had to displace people and businesses then level that hill off. Probably wasn't doable then or now. Miami is really up against it there.

Well maybe the Big 10 presidents will bend their way of thinking on a couple issues as I don't think they are going to get all they want out of the ACC.

 

[psu00]

Miami has issues they need to take care of they are not a UCLA where they can come in playing in a rent a center. The presidents have always wanted GT and FOX wants to be in Atlanta so there will be no fight between those two this time like there was for OR. Miami is on the list FOX wants them and has fully explained to Miami they want them it's just that ND UNC GT VA and even NCS are ahead of them at this point.

My info has it the presidents only want 4 teams from the ACC including ND. The big question I have is can they get the top four teams they want ND UNC GT and VA, at this point it would seem to be no. So, teams like Miami and even sPitt will possible come into play. I will say that if UNC would tell the Big 10 that they will come but only if NCS comes along it will get done and FOX would pay for NCS too just to get UNC.

The usual people will scoff at the presidents taking sPitt (even I don't want them) but they have everything those presidents want in a new school except they play in a rent a stadium. If they would financially commit to building their own stadium, they might be a take now. Like Miami they are no UCLA just not the same situation at all. sPitt has plenty of schools in the Big 10 supporting them including PS. They would get plenty of votes, but could they get enough, at that point it would most likely still be an uphill battle. Relationships endowments research and financial stability matter greatly sPitt has all of that.

Back to Miami they are AAU now so that's a plus and that put them over the hump and on the list for the presidents but well down the list from the four mentioned, but I don't see the Big 10 getting all of those teams on their wish list for various reasons. That's when a Miami and a sPitt may rise up the list. There has been chatter about sPitt for a while now. It seems they keep beating on the door. Here's atibit that may be something may be nothing and just and interesting factoid. No team in the country has played ND more times than sPitt.

Now let's talk FSU. FSU would be a take but not with Clemson it seems that the Big 10 has no interest in Clemson at this time. FSU has work to do also like AAU and other things but certainly not unsurmountable things. If an FSU even though they are not AAU if they could bring a ND or a UNC with them, they're in. By the way if UNC or ND leave the league collapses IMO. FSU at this time checks a lot of Boxes and eventually they make it in IMO. Again, if the Big 10 misses on a number of teams, then an FSU becomes instantly way more important.

No one knows how this will all shake out or when at this point there is a chance that the SEC could make a clean sweep of the best schools that the Big 10 wants but that won't stop the Big 10 from finishing their plans on expansion, they will quickly move to plan B. Big 10 expansion plans have been on the table since Delaney was the Commish.

As always come crunch time NEVER TRUST ND.

Here’s where I lose the Big Ten’s argument, (not saying you’re wrong, just I fail to see the reasoning of the Big Ten). What makes Georgia Tech so highly valued but not Miami?

Both are small private schools with good academic reputation. AAU not an issue.

Both have limited fan interest, (compared to OSU/ PSU), but Miami is far ahead of GT in comparison and clearly has the much better history and national interest, (even if currently they aren’t near what they were in the 80s/ 90s/ 00s).

Both are in big markets with Florida a huge recruiting spot. Florida population/ market is far greater than Georgia.

GT plays in Bobby Dodd which (IIRC ?) is smaller than all Big Ten stadiums except Northwestern. Miami plays in Hard Rock which is off campus, but that’s similar to UCLA in the Rose Bowl and USC’s renter/ operator relationship with the Coliseum.

To me it seems head to head Miami is the winner, but somehow the Big 10 is all about Georgia Tech.

 

[PSU4U]

Here’s where I lose the Big Ten’s argument, (not saying you’re wrong, just I fail to see the reasoning of the Big Ten). What makes Georgia Tech so highly valued but not Miami?

Both are small private schools with good academic reputation. AAU not an issue.

Both have limited fan interest, (compared to OSU/ PSU), but Miami is far ahead of GT in comparison and clearly has the much better history and national interest, (even if currently they aren’t near what they were in the 80s/ 90s/ 00s).

Both are in big markets with Florida a huge recruiting spot. Florida population/ market is far greater than Georgia.

GT plays in Bobby Dodd which (IIRC ?) is smaller than all Big Ten stadiums except Northwestern. Miami plays in Hard Rock which is off campus, but that’s similar to UCLA in the Rose Bowl and USC’s renter/ operator relationship with the Coliseum.

To me it seems head to head Miami is the winner, but somehow the Big 10 is all about Georgia Tech.

While football is important to the presidents, and they begrudgingly accept it as the poster child for the university academic things are far more important to them.

Where those presidents are concerned and as much as we fans like to make all this expansion stuff about football it simply isn't especially to the presidents in the Big 10. The Big 10 is simply very different from the SEC and even the ACC and the Big 12 when it comes to inviting schools.

There are a couple ACC universities that some Big 10 schools/professors have had long term relationships with and some of those are GT NCS UNC and VA. Areas of interest between the Big and those ACC schools have been Engineering Ag Medical Research etc. Those professors do not strictly exist within their own conferences on those interests.

The presidents do like finding those unicorns in realignment where all the stars align, and everyone is made happy football fans and academe alike but that doesn't always happen like when they brought in MD and RU.

Now it's just me but I don't think the presidents see GT and Miami in the same light. But that's not to say Miami won't make it in they may depending on how everything breaks down. I'm not writing anyone off at this point, but I do understand the preferences.

 

[LMTLION]

sPitt actually could have but now maybe you're right the property costs would enormous as displacing people is not cheap.

When their stadium was in the Hill District, they could have bought surrounding property cheaply not so today. Even then they would have had to displace people and businesses then level that hill off. Probably wasn't doable then or now. Miami is really up against it there.

Well maybe the Big 10 presidents will bend their way of thinking on a couple issues as I don't think they are going to get all they want out of the ACC.

Yeah anything is possible with time and money but to build a 50k capacity new stadium in those two cities the roi would likely be negative.

 

[joeaubie21]

Let PiT stay in Joakland and light their butt wind there.

 

[Op2]

There is no way the Big Ten is going to invite Pitt and for that matter I think Miami is a big stretch. What exactly does Miami bring other than some football history where they were really good for a span that ended 20 years ago? They're in the state of Florida, which might...might count for something if the Big Ten doesn't get FSU.

 

[ryoder1]

While football is important to the presidents, and they begrudgingly accept it as the poster child for the university academic things are far more important to them.

Where those presidents are concerned and as much as we fans like to make all this expansion stuff about football it simply isn't especially to the presidents in the Big 10. The Big 10 is simply very different from the SEC and even the ACC and the Big 12 when it comes to inviting schools.

There are a couple ACC universities that some Big 10 schools/professors have had long term relationships with and some of those are GT NCS UNC and VA. Areas of interest between the Big and those ACC schools have been Engineering Ag Medical Research etc. Those professors do not strictly exist within their own conferences on those interests.

The presidents do like finding those unicorns in realignment where all the stars align, and everyone is made happy football fans and academe alike but that doesn't always happen like when they brought in MD and RU.

Now it's just me but I don't think the presidents see GT and Miami in the same light. But that's not to say Miami won't make it in they may depending on how everything breaks down. I'm not writing anyone off at this point, but I do understand the preferences.

It sounds like the presidents want blue blood academics. Tech is it, Miami is not. 30 years ago Tech was far superior to Miami academically and they are living in that world. That explains the FSU hesitancy and even if they get AAU status I doubt it is enough. Remember the 80s and Free Shoes University? These presidents don't want schools like that (football factory) even though it is antiquated thinking.

I don't know why the presidents would not grovel for UNC? They are an academic powerhouse on the same level as UVA and Michigan.

Duke is probably too small and these presidents don't want another NW. They like big, research oriented state universities and Ga Tech and UVA check that box.

Back to UNC, I would think they are high on the list but maybe they are requesting too many strings attached like Duke and NC State come in with them.

I would be surprised that Pitt gets in. City school, not big state school. Same with BC and Syracuse is just not strong enough academically probably just like Va Tech, NC State, Miami, Florida State and definitely Clemson.

What is ironic is the B10 has Maryland, Rutgers and Nebraska sitting there and they don't fit the academic criteria of these snooty presidents so they obviously got in under different circumstances.

 

[psu00]

While football is important to the presidents, and they begrudgingly accept it as the poster child for the university academic things are far more important to them.

Where those presidents are concerned and as much as we fans like to make all this expansion stuff about football it simply isn't especially to the presidents in the Big 10. The Big 10 is simply very different from the SEC and even the ACC and the Big 12 when it comes to inviting schools.

There are a couple ACC universities that some Big 10 schools/professors have had long term relationships with and some of those are GT NCS UNC and VA. Areas of interest between the Big and those ACC schools have been Engineering Ag Medical Research etc. Those professors do not strictly exist within their own conferences on those interests.

The presidents do like finding those unicorns in realignment where all the stars align, and everyone is made happy football fans and academe alike but that doesn't always happen like when they brought in MD and RU.

Now it's just me but I don't think the presidents see GT and Miami in the same light. But that's not to say Miami won't make it in they may depending on how everything breaks down. I'm not writing anyone off at this point, but I do understand the preferences.

True, but let’s just be brutally honest. This realignment is about money and specifically football money from the networks. I get the university presidents can be clueless and certainly fall into a herd mentality most of the time, but even the most bookish prez knows this.

I have no doubt the academic side plays a role but it’s always been a very selective criteria. Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s reason for GT/ Stanford but not really needed for Nebraska, Oregon. It all depends where the wind is blowing at the moment. That said, Miami is AAU and good academically as well so it’s not like the choice here is Georgia Tech verses Boise State.

If the university presidents want to make an academic alliance like how the U of Chicago was involved with the Big Ten while not being in the conference that’s fine. Have Georgia Tech, Stanford, Virginia in some sort of academic and research alliance where they can share resources/ expertise. Everyone would support that. The Big Ten already does these half in/ half out arrangements- John’s Hopkins for lacrosse, Notre Dame for hockey, etc.

Right now the Big Ten makes the most money but IIRC the SEC will pass them in the next year or 2. If the Big Ten wants to add GT/ UVA/ Stanford types then they will further dilute their payouts and will put themselves permanently behind the SEC in both payouts and prestige (which, in this era of NIL will have other long term consequences).

I can just hear all the Big Ten cheerleaders in media/ online who gush over GT, UVA, and Stanford now, change their tune in a year. They’ll be upset how the Big Ten can’t compete with the SEC and how unfair it is.

I just see the Big Ten shooting themselves in the feet and then complaining that it’s an unfair playing field.

 

[lazydave841]

They're in the state of Florida, which might...might count for something if the Big Ten doesn't get FSU.

Why not UCF? Or USF? Miami fans just don't show up unless they are winning.

That explains the FSU hesitancy

I think if GoR wasn't an obstacle, FSU would have an offer from somewhere.

 

[ryoder1]

True, but let’s just be brutally honest. This realignment is about money and specifically football money from the networks. I get the university presidents can be clueless and certainly fall into a herd mentality most of the time, but even the most bookish prez knows this.

I have no doubt the academic side plays a role but it’s always been a very selective criteria. Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s reason for GT/ Stanford but not really needed for Nebraska, Oregon. It all depends where the wind is blowing at the moment. That said, Miami is AAU and good academically as well so it’s not like the choice here is Georgia Tech verses Boise State.

If the university presidents want to make an academic alliance like how the U of Chicago was involved with the Big Ten while not being in the conference that’s fine. Have Georgia Tech, Stanford, Virginia in some sort of academic and research alliance where they can share resources/ expertise. Everyone would support that. The Big Ten already does these half in/ half out arrangements- John’s Hopkins for lacrosse, Notre Dame for hockey, etc.

Right now the Big Ten makes the most money but IIRC the SEC will pass them in the next year or 2. If the Big Ten wants to add GT/ UVA/ Stanford types then they will further dilute their payouts and will put themselves permanently behind the SEC in both payouts and prestige (which, in this era of NIL will have other long term consequences).

I can just hear all the Big Ten cheerleaders in media/ online who gush over GT, UVA, and Stanford now, change their tune in a year. They’ll be upset how the Big Ten can’t compete with the SEC and how unfair it is.

I just see the Big Ten shooting themselves in the feet and then complaining that it’s an unfair playing field.

I agree 100% with you. I'm just trying to rationalize how Georgia Tech and UVA are the top 2 candidates according to the inside knowledge of this poster. It makes no sense unless a bunch of presidents who were former Biology, Math and Philosophy professors are deciding everything through their myopic academic lens with no regard to business or financials. It is so random. Maybe if everything is being decided by the heads of the engineering departments or chemistry departments who don't care about sports and spend their Saturday afternoons in a lab. We know you don't get to be a University President by just being some total egg head academia with no clue about the college sports landscape. So not sure what gives but I agree that the executives at these TV networks and the ADs have to wield a good amount of power here.

 

[LMTLION]

I agree 100% with you. I'm just trying to rationalize how Georgia Tech and UVA are the top 2 candidates according to the inside knowledge of this poster. It makes no sense unless a bunch of presidents who were former Biology, Math and Philosophy professors are deciding everything through their myopic academic lens with no regard to business or financials. It is so random. Maybe if everything is being decided by the heads of the engineering departments or chemistry departments who don't care about sports and spend their Saturday afternoons in a lab. We know you don't get to be a University President by just being some total egg head academia with no clue about the college sports landscape. So not sure what gives but I agree that the executives at these TV networks and the ADs have to wield a good amount of power here.

I share similar concerns with the logic. The university presidents can have a wish or priority list, which probably has a UVA or GT near the top. But ultimately they have a fiduciary responsibility to their schools and will not and quite frankly cannot vote to add a school that is dilutive to per-capita revenue. I personally would like to add GT and UVA, but they are both tv revenue losers unfortunately and as a standalone addition each is highly dilutive to the conference. The only way GT gets in is as a travel partner with FSU or Miami. I do not see a path for UVA to enter the conference unless it is under a permanent partial revenue structure.

 

[ryoder1]

I share similar concerns with the logic. The university presidents can have a wish or priority list, which probably has a UVA or GT near the top. But ultimately they have a fiduciary responsibility to their schools and will not and quite frankly cannot vote to add a school that is dilutive to per-capita revenue. I personally would like to add GT and UVA, but they are both tv revenue losers unfortunately and as a standalone addition each is highly dilutive to the conference. The only way GT gets in is as a travel partner with FSU or Miami. I do not see a path for UVA to enter the conference unless it is under a permanent partial revenue structure.

Yep. The football TV numbers for both schools are horrid. C'mon, can you see Fox using their Big Noon platform for the thrilling 3-6 Cavaliers vs 4-5 Yellowjackets match up with 35,000 in attendance?? Heck even a FS1 game or whatever is not worth it for these two schools. Someone would have to do some incredibly creative financial projections to calculate that these two schools would be accretive and not dilutive to the current revenue sharing. There is no way the Penn State prez should ever agree to their entry unless it is a fractional share of the revenue.

 

[PSU4U]

delete

 

[PSU4U]

True, but let’s just be brutally honest. This realignment is about money and specifically football money from the networks. I get the university presidents can be clueless and certainly fall into a herd mentality most of the time, but even the most bookish prez knows this.

I have no doubt the academic side plays a role but it’s always been a very selective criteria. Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s reason for GT/ Stanford but not really needed for Nebraska, Oregon. It all depends where the wind is blowing at the moment. That said, Miami is AAU and good academically as well so it’s not like the choice here is Georgia Tech verses Boise State.

If the university presidents want to make an academic alliance like how the U of Chicago was involved with the Big Ten while not being in the conference that’s fine. Have Georgia Tech, Stanford, Virginia in some sort of academic and research alliance where they can share resources/ expertise. Everyone would support that. The Big Ten already does these half in/ half out arrangements- John’s Hopkins for lacrosse, Notre Dame for hockey, etc.

Right now the Big Ten makes the most money but IIRC the SEC will pass them in the next year or 2. If the Big Ten wants to add GT/ UVA/ Stanford types then they will further dilute their payouts and will put themselves permanently behind the SEC in both payouts and prestige (which, in this era of NIL will have other long term consequences).

I can just hear all the Big Ten cheerleaders in media/ online who gush over GT, UVA, and Stanford now, change their tune in a year. They’ll be upset how the Big Ten can’t compete with the SEC and how unfair it is.

I just see the Big Ten shooting themselves in the feet and then complaining that it’s an unfair playing field.

Just so you know OR didn't make it in on the first two votes. There was a lot of Wheeling and Dealing by FOX on those presidents to get them in. This time around the presidents are calling the shots.

 

[ryoder1]

delete

At least they think they are until they want to make some kind of moronic financial decision.

 

[LMTLION]

Just so you know OR didn't make it in on the first two votes. There was a lot of Wheeling and Dealing by FOX on those presidents to get them in. This time around the presidents are calling the shots.

What revenue increase would the networks, namely Fox, provide the B1G to add UVA? $15m to perhaps $20M at best. GT maybe $25m at best based on current and historic tv ratings. Either those schools take partial revenue or the conference eats the difference. The B1G university presidents may be calling the shots per se but I know with absolute certainty that no university president is authorized by their governing body to engage in an agreement that benefits a different university at the expense of their own.

 

[PSU4U]

Every te

What revenue increase would the networks, namely Fox, provide the B1G to add UVA? $15m to perhaps $20M at best. GT maybe $25m at best based on current and historic tv ratings. Either those schools take partial revenue or the conference eats the difference. The B1G university presidents may be calling the shots per se but I know with absolute certainty that no university president is authorized by their governing body to engage in an agreement that benefits a different university at the expense of their own.

Every team comes in under their own merits and conditions unless it's a team ND wants. USC and UCLA came in on full shares OR and WA did not. MD came in under their own conditions as did RU. Every individual team bargain's and gets what they can. It took a helluva effort by FOX to get OR in. FOX gave up some things that will playout in the next wave and the schools that voted against OR twice then acquiesced will have more say in the next go around.

 

[ryoder1]

Every te

Every team comes in under their own merits and conditions unless it's a team ND wants. USC and UCLA came in on full shares OR and WA did not. MD came in under their own conditions as did RU. Every individual team bargain's and gets what they can. It took a helluva effort by FOX to get OR in. FOX gave up some things that will playout in the next wave and the schools that voted against OR twice then acquiesced will have more say in the next go around.

Oregon is a lot better than UVA or Ga Tech. This is a game about money not who has the best liberal arts college or engineering department. Maybe these presidents should defer to their deans of their business school to explain to them increased revenue for the school....good, decreased revenue for the school....bad.

 

[psu00]

Oregon is a lot better than UVA or Ga Tech. This is a game about money not who has the best liberal arts college or engineering department. Maybe these presidents should defer to their deans of their business school to explain to them increased revenue for the school....good, decreased revenue for the school....bad.

Honestly, it would be very ‘Big Ten-ish’ to have the university presidents vote to harm their universities (lower payouts) just so they can make a point about how they are in charge. Never underestimate the herd mentality of university academics especially when they convince themselves that they know more than everyone else.

 

[PSU4U]

Oregon is a lot better than UVA or Ga Tech. This is a game about money not who has the best liberal arts college or engineering department. Maybe these presidents should defer to their deans of their business school to explain to them increased revenue for the school....good, decreased revenue for the school....bad.

As much as some want to make it all about football I'm trying folks that it's not the way it's been and not the way it's going to be, it just isn't We agree to disagree.

 

[PSU4U]

Honestly, it would be very ‘Big Ten-ish’ to have the university presidents vote to harm their universities (lower payouts) just so they can make a point about how they are in charge. Never underestimate the herd mentality of university academics especially when they convince themselves that they know more than everyone else.

Good lord how is the potential of bringing in huge endowments like Billions and probably Billions in research to the conference harming any of the universities. Some people just don't know how the academic side works or understand it's worth. Football dollars are paltry in comparison. The presidents want Stanford because their endowments and research is just enormously off the charts. They could buy and sell most universities like a street hotdog vender. They undoubtedly have more alums who are Billionaires than 50 other schools of your choice that aren't Ivy League put together. I think they are near triple digits in Billionaire's who are alums. For instance OR has one. Those people donate to research and projects that then gets shared with other universities. It's a really nice club to be in. Holy crap.

 

[ryoder1]

Good lord how is the potential of bringing in huge endowments like Billions and probably Billions in research to the conference harming any of the universities. Some people just don't know how the academic side works or understand it's worth. Football dollars are paltry in comparison. The presidents want Stanford because their endowments and research is just enormously off the charts. They could buy and sell most universities like a street hotdog vender. They undoubtedly have more alums who are Billionaires than 50 other schools of your choice that aren't Ivy League put together. I think they are near triple digits in Billionaire's who are alums. For instance OR has one. Those people donate to research and projects that then gets shared with other universities. It's a telub to be in. Holy crap.
[/QUOthstTE]
Well if that is the case just invite Harvard and Stanford and call it a day. And if Stanford is so lucrative and attractive then how does Oregon get in before them and they were scrambling to even find a home?

 

[LMTLION]

Good lord how is the potential of bringing in huge endowments like Billions and probably Billions in research to the conference harming any of the universities. Some people just don't know how the academic side works or understand it's worth. Football dollars are paltry in comparison. The presidents want Stanford because their endowments and research is just enormously off the charts. They could buy and sell most universities like a street hotdog vender. They undoubtedly have more alums who are Billionaires than 50 other schools of your choice that aren't Ivy League put together. I think they are near triple digits in Billionaire's who are alums. For instance OR has one. Those people donate to research and projects that then gets shared with other universities. It's a really nice club to be in. Holy crap.

I enjoy your posts and appreciate the info, but I think you are inaccurate with the connection you make there. Stanford’s endowment would not impact PSU’s operational budget if Stanford was in the B1G. If it did in the manner you indicate, there would have been a bidding war for Stanford last year between the major conferences. Instead, they begged the ACC on the opposite coast and took minimal revenue to gain membership.

 

[SheldonJoe2215]

For instance OR has one.

Technically, he is also a Stanford alum and donates quite a bit to them as well.

 

[Op2]

Some people are saying that the Presidents priority is academics. I say the their priorities are to make their schools bigger and more powerful, which will sometimes correspond to academics and other times not.

Schools have increased in size. Enrollment relative to the size of the general population has increased. Schools encourage students to get loans and give the school money even if they don't have good prospects for earning enough money to pay off the loans, to the degree that at this point the total amount of outstanding student debt is something like $1.5 trillion. That's how much students owe for education that is already funded by the public, for public schools at least. University administration has become bloated. Universities have more and more "Centers" and what not that aren't necessarily academically oriented. There's no major a university won't add if they can get funding for it.

And of course the athletic boom isn't putting a priority on academics. Simple logic says if you push harder and harder to get better and better athletes then the chances are less and less that they either be good students or even interested in being good students. There's no reason that being a good student and being a good athlete are necessarily related.

And as I said at the start, sometimes getting bigger and more powerful does correspond to academic-related things.

 

[PSU4U]

Who do you have going to the Big 10 from the ACC? Stanford is back in play by the way.

From people in Lubbock Dallas and Waco last week the chatter around A&M was ticking up. Maybe something maybe nothing just saying.

 

[LMTLION]

Click here for Speculation about Kansas being a B1G expansion candidate.
Kansas feels like a Big10 school to me.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Any discussions about a big 12 school jumping ship in the next several years is pure fantasy considering their media deal. Some of your logic does make a lot of sense, but Kansas would have to pay an enormous penalty to get out of the big 12.

And a research school as well. As much as people want to totally write them off, I laugh. They aren't 3rd party talking to the Big 10 and the SEC because they are content at this time. As for Kansas and the Big 10 it will boil down to how the ACC defections shake out. But Kansas CO Utah AZ ASU Stanford are all considerations. Also don't forget that the Big 10 might still like to get a foothold in the state of TX. Lots of possibilities out there at this time. If the Big 10 gets shutout of the ACC teams they desire those teams mentioned along with sPitt would come into play. I hope that doesn't happen.

I think it depends on how big the Big Ten wants to get. If they're stopping at 20, obviously KU isn't the priority over Clemson, FSU, Notre Dame, etc. but if they expand to 28-30ish? The Jayhawks are absolutely in play, along with Stanford plus the other Big 12 schools PSU4U mentioned.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Click here for Speculation about Kansas being a B1G expansion candidate.
Kansas feels like a Big10 school to me.

As a Kansas Citian, I hope KU makes it in at some point. Would love to have the Big Ten in the KC market and the SEC (Mizzou) a short two-hour drive away.

Edit: And if that were to happen, the Big Ten should bring their men's basketball tournament here, even just for one year. As someone who went to MSG many times for the Big East tournament, the Big 12 tournament is phenomenal here.

 

[KCLion]

That list is pretty consistent year to year, with the exception of Colorado who got a Prime bump . You literally can use that list and select AAU schools with high tv viewership (not already in the SEC) to determine the next candidates. It’s the methodology that’s been used for USC/UCLA and Oregon/Washington expansions.

So you are saying the first four offers are Colorado, ND, Utah, and Miami? I’m doubtful.

 

[LMTLION]

So you are saying the first four offers are Colorado, ND, Utah, and Miami? I’m doubtful.

ND and Miami yes (hell, ND would instantly get OSU and UM treatment and likely be the big 3), but not Colorado as that is a temporary Sanders blip. I think eventually Utah gets in, but not anytime soon as they are in a new media contract in the big 12 and the exit fees would be extreme (Kansas is obviously in that same boat.) FSU, which is close to ND in terms of revenue potential, has been seeking AAU membership. South Florida achieved membership over FSU last year, but perhaps soon FSU will achieve its goal soon. Duke and UNC are interesting as they are marginal in football viewership, slightly leas than the SEC and B1G mean, but the bball programs are very popular and as such I think that’s why at least UNC is considered to be a very attractive candidate. I’m not completely sold on Duke, but I am sure the university presents consider them a top target, considering the academic profile of the school.

 

[LMTLION]

I think it depends on how big the Big Ten wants to get. If they're stopping at 20, obviously KU isn't the priority over Clemson, FSU, Notre Dame, etc. but if they expand to 28-30ish? The Jayhawks are absolutely in play, along with Stanford plus the other Big 12 schools PSU4U mentioned.

I think both Kansas and Utah are future candidates for membership, but I highly doubt either school has the ability to pay the big 12 exit fee so early in the new media contract.

 

[psu00]

I enjoy your posts and appreciate the info, but I think you are inaccurate with the connection you make there. Stanford’s endowment would not impact PSU’s operational budget if Stanford was in the B1G. If it did in the manner you indicate, there would have been a bidding war for Stanford last year between the major conferences. Instead, they begged the ACC on the opposite coast and took minimal revenue to gain membership.

True. Stanford’s billionaires or endowment are meaningless in this argument. As said previously, if the Big Ten wants to open an academic and research alliance with Stanford or UVA or GT that’s fine. No one would argue that at all. There’s no reason they can’t share research or cooperate with each other with regard to research right now.

However, the issue at hand is maximizing your revenue from the standpoint of tv networks from a sports, (predominantly football), perspective. That is what is being negotiated with these expansion talks.

It should be remembered that PSU is one of a handful of schools that are self sustained financially in the athletic department. Most schools are not. They subsidize their athletic departments by funds from the university academic side. Every prez should be doing all they can to get their athletic department financially secure and independent. Reducing per school payouts is not helpful.

This debate often gets sidetracked into many directions- athletic finances, university research, university ‘relationships’, tv markets, west coast/ southern pods, travel partners, etc. All that aside, the core issue here is negotiating the best tv revenue. Adding Stanford, Georgia Tech, and Virginia’s athletic teams resulting in decreased per team revenue is just not a smart thing to do, no matter how impressive they are as academic institutions.

 

[jabba2]

I dont think anything happens unless FOX offers to pay a school's way like they supposedly did with Oregon and Washington. None of these ACC schools likely are on the same viewership level as an Oregon besides FSU and Clemson. GT might bring the Atlanta market but their TV numbers dont show that.

 

[PSU4U]

I think both Kansas and Utah are future candidates for membership, but I highly doubt either school has the ability to pay the big 12 exit fee so early in the new media contract.

I'm just guessing here well maybe prophesying that Private Equity for individual universities and football programs is going to become a big thing.