Well, I'm not always in that camp, but considering what's going on at the end of Singleton's match here, maybe you're right.
U20’s August 14th-20th
- Thread starter zzs006
- Start date
Singleton looked to be cruising to a bronze but some late creative scoring on an exchange at the edge has left the match tied 7-7 with Yagan ahead on criteria. Or no, it's 8-7 Singleton with .02 seconds left. Now .01 seconds left after a two second flurry. It's over? Yagan's corner challenging something but it's impossible to imagine what. I mean, this is the Trent Tucker Rule territory. WT actual F already.
Challenge finally lost, 9-7, Singleton's hand is raised. Cornell lawyers nowhere to be found.
Challenge finally lost, 9-7, Singleton's hand is raised. Cornell lawyers nowhere to be found.
Agreed. It was 7-4 with around 5 seconds to go and Singleton ended up going OOB and the Turk landed on top of him. I thought it was 2+1 for 7-7 (which would have given Yagan criteria). Singleton challenged, but then the scoreboard showed 8-7 (not sure what Singleton gets 1 for), so he cancels the challenge. The Turkish coaches are screaming 7-7, so after the restart with :02 and no score, they challenge. Unsuccessfully. Not sure what happened there.
The only way I can see Singleton getting one in the sequence is if Yagan stepped out first (I haven't looked at it again - it's possible), but then how does Yagan get two for completing the TD? Once his foot is out first, he can't score.
Maybe @CropDuster507 can explain that last sequence.
I think with somewhere around 1:00 to go, Singleton got a push out awarded to him, but the scorers failed to post the point.
I agree - I thought that might be it. Singleton kept pointing to the scoreboard but it never went up. But awarding it with :02 left is pretty bad.
There was another sequence earlier where Singleton pushed in with double unders trying to get a step out and Yagan launched him. Singleton never exposed though. I thought it would be correct throw +2 for Yagan, but they ended up just giving him 1, although I'm pretty sure Yagan's head hit a split second before Singleton. But I could be wrong, Singleton hit his head, but then landed on his feet - but I think they could have given 2 to Yagan there.
Yes, rewatching it, at :34 Yagan steps out but Singleton's 1 is never put on the board which would have made it 8-3. Not sure why they didn't stop it right there and correct it as Singleton was pointing it out a few times before restart.
1. Yeah, dude should be penalized or thrown out for laying around and whatnot. I won't disagree with that. Shoot, I watched it happen at the Clash a few years back and the OPRF coach (Powell) audibly yelled at the kid "Get up or take injury time! Enough!" Do we think the foreign countries do this in the quarters through semis against each other in their version of WTT? I'm not PRO-laying around and crying wolf. After the 2nd time, give him a caution and opponent a point. 3rd time? Toss him. I think that sucks.
2. A 30-second ride out at the end of the period is exciting. Mat returns freaking rule. I coach folk. Shoot, the heavyweight I coached last year was actually a hammer on top. My college roommate and HS training partner used to ride guys for 4+ minutes and win 7-2 frequently, while I yelled "CUT HIM!" from the stands in a silent D3 gym. There may have been a few beverages involved. But especially these last few years, especially at the collegiate level, top stalling has been non-existent and referee's position has been boring as ****. They don't penalize the guy who is in the advantaged position for not taking risk and attempting to turn by leaving the hips. Rather, they reward them with a point for simply blocking the bottom wrestler from escaping. The amount of times that I encountered (what I would consider) poor officiating, calling stalling on the bottom guy with double boots from top was downright atrocious. Granted, I'm not typically interacting with the "who's who" of collegiate officiating at Open tournaments and duals in the upper midwest. I'm also aware of that fact. But even in D1, watching a guy sit on a freaking ankle and ride an inside wrist without making a single attempt to leave the hips and turn is worse than watching the grass grow (and I've only had to mow a couple of times this summer).
3. Criteria rules and I hope that none of this is like, coming off personally. I coach folkstyle. I watch folkstyle. If I'm not mistaken, you run a pretty highly-acclaimed folk tournament and that's sick. I realize PA loves a good rideout, but watching high college level top wrestling (outside of the few outliers that actually turn) is yawn-worthy to me.
First, they cut the first 4 points and 2 or so minutes out of the chopped out replay. Nice, Flo.
Second period, red needs to get his damn head up, and the ref needs to not let him block from the underhook. As Singleton digs double unders, red attempts a throw and Singleton never exposes or lands. Personally? I like 4B, there, but it's overseas and we ain't getting that call. 1R rewards the dude for bailing and flailing. Hate it. Then, red attempts and Singleton uses it to go feet-to-back. I like that 2B call. 1B and 2R respectively are fine calls after that. Then there should be 1 more for Singleton on the step out and this dipstick doesn't make sure it's on the board for whatever reason. 1R for the next step out, which is fairly obvious and correct.
Then, Red goes overhook shuck into like, a side-by-side high rear standing sort of position... Singleton obviously makes the attempt to stay in, but red runs him out. I'm all on-board for 2R. I LOVE ME SOME FLEEING CAUTION +1, but that wasn't fleeing. Maybe that's my American bias. They wanna put him down (which would be correct in this scenario IF it was fleeing). Singleton challenges, and then they correct the score from wayyyy earlier and start in neutral 8-7 which makes 0 freaking sense.
8-6 Singleton, if not 12-5 Singleton. Dude on the whistle isn't invited to my barbecue. I guess that's my take on it.
No way, none taken personally!! I just like a little back and forth on the styles. Personally, I have an appreciation for all of them - they are all different and each has its pluses and minuses.
I think we agree on all three of your points above. We'll see how the "new" emphasis on top stalling works out this year, although I think it is a half-measure. The new 3-point TD will lead to a lot more stalling in the 2nd half of matches IMO, which will be called without much impact. IMO, the major problem with the refereeing is that they are content to let wrestlers pace themselves and feel each other out for FAR too long. Action is demanded by rule not just in the 2nd and 3rd periods, but AT ALL TIMES. One minute of hand fight is too long - someone should be getting dinged. Early action and scoring will translate into much more late action and scoring, of that I have no doubt. Both from the urgency of being behind and pace impacting conditioning.
Freestyle does a nice job here - one minute in of no score and someone's getting their first warning 90% of the time.
So I noticed but Mesenbrink's finals opponent and him wrestled last year at 70KG at worlds, with Mitch winning 9-7 before Aghaei wrestled back for bronze. Seems like a barnburner coming up!
Ten years ago I would have said that folkstyle was hurting us internationally, I've made a 180. I now believe that folkstyle is a huge benefit for us in freestyle. Our guys do things in a match that no one overseas has ever seen, and they have no idea what to do in those situations.
We've really taken a big step in our evolution as a nation. While we will always pride ourselves on our pace and handfight - we've gotten so much better at wrestling in positions and being creative.
100% of that evolution goes to JB and Carl/PSU crew. JB specifically with his counter offense and knee sprawl and Carl/crew with taking the time to master the sport and be good everywhere.
Askren on FRL said that Gable set back american wrestling. He's wrong. The myth of Gable set back american wrestling. Every high school coach and even Gable disciple decided that being in the best shape and just handfighting was all you needed. And that's what we looked like after Gable left. Never mind the fact that Gable was able to coach and develop Randy Lewis's, McIlravy's, Ironsides, Brands and Banachs. They were all different, had different styles and could score points.
And thanks to Zeke Jones and the RTC model - our depth is going to be better than Russia and Iran here soon.
LOL well you can't blame the top guy if bottom guy doesn't know how to get out!its called a hard ride!
I feel our depth is right there, there are a couple weights were we have 2 or 3 of the top 5 in the world.
Luke's opponent was a very tough kid. He had Dake like defense and composure. Its no shame to loose in high school to a kid like that.
Shapiro kinda beat the crap out of a very tough kid here the only mitigating factor is the Iranian gassed.I want Shapiro on the other side of the bracket each March no matter who we are putting out there. If there is a weakness he seems happy to put himself in weird situations because he is confident in his scrambling ability. PSU fundamentals tend to expose that kind of recklessness. The bottom line is he is freaking good.
Dake has gotten young enough that he's down to 125?
I just got caught up on our medal matches today. Thanks everyone for taking over pbp duties
Lilledahl’s match was kind of what I expected. Not only was Nishiuchi last years U20 champ but he did it at 61kg. Coming down to 57 I figured he would be bigger and stronger than Luke and that was absolutely true. Still, what a great tournament for Lilledahl! Making the U20 finals while still in high school puts him on a pretty exclusive list. The kid is truly special and I couldn’t be happier that he’s coming to PSU
Like @CSauertiegPSU says, if Mendez can’t use his horsepower he ends up in a bit of trouble. Good tournament overall but the Iranian was just a bit better
Great match and tournament from Shapiro! Kid is a beast and is a ton of fun to watch. Super creative, good attacks, good pace, no real weaknesses. I hope we see him vs SVN, Levi, or MM in the next few years. All of those matchups would be fire
Singleton bringing home bronze is a great result. Jaglan is just on another level but otherwise Singleton showed out. Big team points
McDanel wrestled great today. I thought he was going to lose his bronze match against Kurugliyev but he took it to him and it wasn’t really close. More huge points scored in the team race
1 gold, 2 silvers, and 2 bronze today is incredible. Was hoping we could get 2 gold but I also thought we would get at least 1 5th. All these kids rose to the occasion and wrestled their asses off. Pretty impressive
I think Mesenbrink brings home gold tomorrow with Bouzakis and Berge winning bronze. I don’t think Carroll will place and Darrah is already out. 8 medals would be the most by the US at U20’s I believe.
I took tomorrow off work so I’ll be here late tonight for repechage and morning for medal matches. I’ve had a great time this tournament and love seeing how many true wrestling fans are on this board that show up to support our boys.
Lilledahl’s match was kind of what I expected. Not only was Nishiuchi last years U20 champ but he did it at 61kg. Coming down to 57 I figured he would be bigger and stronger than Luke and that was absolutely true. Still, what a great tournament for Lilledahl! Making the U20 finals while still in high school puts him on a pretty exclusive list. The kid is truly special and I couldn’t be happier that he’s coming to PSU
Like @CSauertiegPSU says, if Mendez can’t use his horsepower he ends up in a bit of trouble. Good tournament overall but the Iranian was just a bit better
Great match and tournament from Shapiro! Kid is a beast and is a ton of fun to watch. Super creative, good attacks, good pace, no real weaknesses. I hope we see him vs SVN, Levi, or MM in the next few years. All of those matchups would be fire
Singleton bringing home bronze is a great result. Jaglan is just on another level but otherwise Singleton showed out. Big team points
McDanel wrestled great today. I thought he was going to lose his bronze match against Kurugliyev but he took it to him and it wasn’t really close. More huge points scored in the team race
1 gold, 2 silvers, and 2 bronze today is incredible. Was hoping we could get 2 gold but I also thought we would get at least 1 5th. All these kids rose to the occasion and wrestled their asses off. Pretty impressive
I think Mesenbrink brings home gold tomorrow with Bouzakis and Berge winning bronze. I don’t think Carroll will place and Darrah is already out. 8 medals would be the most by the US at U20’s I believe.
I took tomorrow off work so I’ll be here late tonight for repechage and morning for medal matches. I’ve had a great time this tournament and love seeing how many true wrestling fans are on this board that show up to support our boys.
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Luke Lilledahl 2023 U20 World Silver Medalist Interview
After watching both Bouzakis and Mendez, I expect Nagao and Beau to rack up 6 team points in a tOSU/PSU dual.
They are good. Very good. But Beau is rock solid and you have to be a lot better than what Mendez showed to beat him. And Bouzakis, well, he is going to have a bad time with Nagao on top. If he’s getting gassed in FS, a seven minute folk match against Nagao is going be unpleasant.
They are good. Very good. But Beau is rock solid and you have to be a lot better than what Mendez showed to beat him. And Bouzakis, well, he is going to have a bad time with Nagao on top. If he’s getting gassed in FS, a seven minute folk match against Nagao is going be unpleasant.
As someone who qualifies as a wrestling "nerd," I love these international competitions where I can root for all of our American wrestlers and not feel bad that they don't wrestle for our team. Hell, it's great watching the Iranians, Azerbaijani wrestlers, Russians. At around 40 years old, I cannot remember a period of time that had better all around wrestling at every level. God, I love this sport!
Kennedy Blades Mat B. Blades 10-0 over UKR in under a minute.
Bouzakis' repechage match on Mat B in two matches.
Bouzakis' repechage match on Mat B in two matches.
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Kennedy Blades is the first American up tonight. 6-0 :40 in. And a 10-0 tech in 50 seconds. She is so damn good. She will wrestle Japan next who will most likely be her toughest match. Blades is the favorite though
I won’t do most of the women’s matches but maybe just the big ones.
I won’t do most of the women’s matches but maybe just the big ones.
Battle of former and/or defending Junior World Champions!
Blades/Moro is definitely the quasi world finals!
Bouzakis over MDA 10-0 w/TD and 4 leg laces, onto the 3rd place match
