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Mark Hall at Scuffle?

I'm not expecting Hall's shirt to be pulled and I'm not concerned if it isn't pulled. But wow, that field at the Scuffle!! IF he were to win it convincingly it becomes very interesting. He has a chance to be a 4 timer. It was assumed that chance would be better starting next year. It will be very interesting. I still like our chances without him. I've haven't seen enough of him at this level to make an honest prediction on his Scuffle performance.
 
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matter7172 said:
It will certainly up the amperage on the discussion if he wins. It's a pretty impressive field. One thing that separates him from a lot of true freshman is his age and physical development. Taylor as a freshman was transitioning from a 135 high school senior to a 157 redshirt freshman, so it was a lot different that Hall's current situation to me.
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Going to have to disagree. I think Hall's physical development isn't on par with the top 174s at this point, just like Taylor wasn't a fully developed 157 his true freshman year. Considering the field, I will be pleasantly surprised if Hall wins the Scuffle.
 
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Flying_Tiger said:
Going to have to disagree. I think Hall's physical development isn't on par with the top 174s at this point, just like Taylor wasn't a fully developed 157 his true freshman year. Considering the field, I will be pleasantly surprised if Hall wins the Scuffle.
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Of course Taylor just moved up 3 weight classes when he enrolled.
 
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dropster45 said:
This isn't directed toward any one person on here, but nonetheless here are a few thoughts that come to mind based on the conversation. It's a little scary for us to think that a head coach is always right, can be, should be, or is infallible. Cael will tell you himself that some of the decisions being made are really just guesses. Hopefully educated guesses, but many times they are made with only partial information. And after they are made, and not having the ability to have scenario A and B play out for comparison sake, it's still can be a wonder as to whether the correct decision was made. So the concept of "In Cael we trust" should be applied surely to his (and the rest of the coaching staffs) intent, but not toward him always being clairvoyantly correct. Only god can do that!
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ALL coaching decisions, in all sports, are guesses -- by definition projections since nobody knows for fact (or FACT!) what will happen. Some decisions are easier and more obvious than others, but none are guaranteed. The coaches do have better information than fans, and they're experienced at making these types of decisions. Fans don't face consequences of the decisions.

And sports are replete with examples of poor decisions leading to good results, and vice-versa.
 
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Cael hasn't pulled a shirt mid season.
Cael seems to have a working model that he follows with minimal wavering. Basically it goes like this - Make a plan, execute the plan, trust the process.

No matter the Scuffle result I would br very surprised to see Mark in the lineup this season simply because it would be out of the norm.

Mark does win the Scuffle. Realbuto isn't going to be Hall's equal when wrestling neutral. After the Scuffle the wrestling community noise speculating Hall's shirt will be much louder, but following the plan has been a very successful strategy.
 
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El-Jefe said:
ALL coaching decisions, in all sports, are guesses -- by definition projections since nobody knows for fact (or FACT!) what will happen. Some decisions are easier and more obvious than others, but none are guaranteed. The coaches do have better information than fans, and they're experienced at making these types of decisions. Fans don't face consequences of the decisions.

And sports are replete with examples of poor decisions leading to good results, and vice-versa.
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Don't know why I thought of this when reading your post, but....
1971 World Series game 3, bottom of the 7th inning (Pirates home team) 2 - 1 Pirates. Bob Robertson is batting with 2 men on base and 0 outs. Manager Danny Mutaugh has third base coach flash the bunt sign to Robertson. Robertson was a huge power hitting first baseman and he had not been ordered to bunt all season and wasn't really thinking about it and either missed it completely or didn't recognize it, but on a pitch he was ordered to bunt he hit a 3 run Homer to give the Bucs a 5 - 1 lead.
Murtaugh made a miscalculation ordering one of his most proficient home run hitters to bunt and Robertson failed to execute the plan, but as Murtaugh put it, "well, I'm not going to give him a bonus for hitting the home run, but i'm not going to fine him for missing the sign either."

Sometimes it just works out.
 
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Someone'll probably correct me but my sense is that until this year Hall hasn't been tested in folk for years; his MN state titles were never in doubt. Pretty certain he can out-wrestle anyone at 174 but I guess it's an open question whether he can he out-grind everyone when necessary at 174 since we've not had a chance to see it. Maybe the Scuffle shows us some of that. But I doubt we'll see the same cavalier approach that led him to so easily give up that cheap tilt in his loss. He was kind of put on notice that day.
 
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Last year Hall went 49-0 with 3 MDs. The year before, 41-0 with 5 MDs. The rest were all TFs and pins. He beat some big names, too: Ugalde, Bey, among others.

That said, at Dapper Dan he beat Austin Bell 8-4 and was fortunate to win that match.

I think it's fair to say he was so good on feet and top that he was rarely tested on bottom. That is where we'll learn the most about him at the Scuffle.
 
tikk10 said:
Someone'll probably correct me but my sense is that until this year Hall hasn't been tested in folk for years; his MN state titles were never in doubt. Pretty certain he can out-wrestle anyone at 174 but I guess it's an open question whether he can he out-grind everyone when necessary at 174 since we've not had a chance to see it. Maybe the Scuffle shows us some of that. But I doubt we'll see the same cavalier approach that led him to so easily give up that cheap tilt in his loss. He was kind of put on notice that day.
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He got tested by Valencia - then went out at Who's #1 with serious intent and hammered him

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/993200-top-7-matches-in-wno-history
 
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I have watched Mark for years now, and doubting him is not in my nature. There are some factors to think about. 1. He is not fully developed physically at this point where a guy like Crutch certainly is. 2. He is making more changes to his game (as a redshirt should) and focusing less on conditioning than he would be were he an everyday starter. 3. He won't have top rate corner coaching/advice during the tournament like he would have as a starter. 5. He won't be feeding off of the PSU team and crowd like he would be if the team was there.
Mark Hall could overcome all of these things and win simply because he is that good, but I will say 2nd or 3/rd place. I do believe he would AA in the 3-6 range if the shirt were pulled, but next year I would expect him to win. PSU has 2 very good 174 wrestlers already, so I doubt Cael rolls the dice for points he doesn't need if the horses already in the stable perform.
 
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I think Brucki was a wake-up call for Hall. I think he will take this tournament as a chance to really put on a show. I don't think he'll dominate every match, but the kid is a special talent. Zain beat Steiber his freshman year, though Zain was underdeveloped compared to how he looked last season. I think the conventional wisdom is to call 2nd or 3rd for him at Scuffle, but I think he wins it all. We shall see.
 
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NittanyChris said:
I think Brucki was a wake-up call for Hall. I think he will take this tournament as a chance to really put on a show. I don't think he'll dominate every match, but the kid is a special talent. Zain beat Steiber his freshman year, though Zain was underdeveloped compared to how he looked last season. I think the conventional wisdom is to call 2nd or 3rd for him at Scuffle, but I think he wins it all. We shall see.
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It's Mark F***in Hall, Wreck Hall wins it, don't overthink it like some will.
 
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KFM74 said:
Wouldn't be a southern scuffle if realbuto was not beat by a PSU stud freshman. (Nickal was a redshirt freshman).
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And Nolf was a TRFR when he beat Realbuto in the 2015 Scuffle Round 2. Dylan (Alton was a RSSR though, when he decked him in the 2015 R12.)
 
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tikk10 said:
Someone'll probably correct me but my sense is that until this year Hall hasn't been tested in folk for years; his MN state titles were never in doubt. Pretty certain he can out-wrestle anyone at 174 but I guess it's an open question whether he can he out-grind everyone when necessary at 174 since we've not had a chance to see it. Maybe the Scuffle shows us some of that. But I doubt we'll see the same cavalier approach that led him to so easily give up that cheap tilt in his loss. He was kind of put on notice that day.
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There is always a difference in the room, but he is definetly learning to grind on a regular basis. Cunningham can be without mercy and if you don't learn to grind when wrestling Casey it can be a long practice.
 
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nitlion6 said:
There is always a difference in the room, but he is definetly learning to grind on a regular basis. Cunningham can be without mercy and if you don't learn to grind when wrestling Casey it can be a long practice.
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Well said - learning to grind - and only in that environment do we know if a persons body can handle the daily rigors of elite college wrestling and remain relatively injury free. So far, so good!
 
The Scuffle has a very strong field and despite being an unranked freshman, most of those guys will be paying attention to what Hall is doing. Should be fun and a great measuring stick. He will be ready to go at the end of the year if needed. It will be interesting to watch what unfolds and how other guys continue to progress.
 
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dunkej01 said:
Where do you guys seed mark hall at the scuffle?
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I'm pulling a Tom Best and putting him where he's most likely to win OW. In this case, that means #11 (or unseeded, facing #11 early) -- so that he has to beat the 6, 3, 2, and 1 seeds to win the title.

Snark aside, that's also the biggest challenge for him, and the closest we can get to simulating the NCAA tournament.
 
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El-Jefe said:
I'm pulling a Tom Best and putting him where he's most likely to win OW. In this case, that means #11 (or unseeded, facing #11 early) -- so that he has to beat the 6, 3, 2, and 1 seeds to win the title.

Snark aside, that's also the biggest challenge for him, and the closest we can get to simulating the NCAA tournament.
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I like that thinking and the test for sure. But I bet on name alone he is seeded 8-10. If they let him in and flo is hyping him I'm going to assume they will seed him. Maybe not.
 
dunkej01 said:
I like that thinking and the test for sure. But I bet on name alone he is seeded 8-10. If they let him in and flo is hyping him I'm going to assume they will seed him. Maybe not.
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#10 would work similarly -- would beat in order 7-2-3-1.
 
dunkej01 said:
Where do you guys seed mark hall at the scuffle?
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I'd put him behind Ramos (need to earn your way into the upper echelon) and ahead of Preisch (assuming Hall routinely beats his teammates in the weight class). So, 5- or 6-seed.
 
Wasn't Nolf a 13-seed in 2014? Might be a little bit apples-to-oranges, I'm thinking 8-10 range for Hall, though the "aura" of Mark Hall might get him a higher seed. Tough call, but in the end it doesn't matter.
 
Cali_Nittany said:
I don't have an opinion one way or the other whether Hall's shirt should be pulled. Thats a decision Cael gets paid the big bucks for.
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No, you said everyone trusts Cael no matter what his decision is. If and when he pulls the shirt, I'll be calling on you to proclaim your trust.
 
21Guns said:
No, you said everyone trusts Cael no matter what his decision is. If and when he pulls the shirt, I'll be calling on you to proclaim your trust.
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Not sure why you feel so entitled. Like NoVa said, he's already proclaimed his trust, and he has a right (and good judgment) to do so at his leisure. I haven't seen anything to suggest Cali owes you anything (conversely, I believe you might be owing someone something pretty soon).
 
nitlion6 said:
Don't know why I thought of this when reading your post, but....
1971 World Series game 3, bottom of the 7th inning (Pirates home team) 2 - 1 Pirates. Bob Robertson is batting with 2 men on base and 0 outs. Manager Danny Mutaugh has third base coach flash the bunt sign to Robertson. Robertson was a huge power hitting first baseman and he had not been ordered to bunt all season and wasn't really thinking about it and either missed it completely or didn't recognize it, but on a pitch he was ordered to bunt he hit a 3 run Homer to give the Bucs a 5 - 1 lead.
Murtaugh made a miscalculation ordering one of his most proficient home run hitters to bunt and Robertson failed to execute the plan, but as Murtaugh put it, "well, I'm not going to give him a bonus for hitting the home run, but i'm not going to fine him for missing the sign either."

Sometimes it just works out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the flashback. When Robertson hit that 3-run homer I was sitting at the red light at the Corner Room. Fall of my senior year.
 
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